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Thread: Are Libertarians the New Neocons?

  1. #1

    Are Libertarians the New Neocons?

    Are Libertarians the New Neocons?
    written by daniel mcadams - saturday july 20, 2019

    There is a disturbing trend in some libertarian circles and among some libertarian organizations to be increasingly enamored with foreign interventionism and US government backed regime change overseas. For those focused on foreign affairs, this is particularly troubling as it is abandoning a key tenet of libertarianism: non-interventionism.

    Not "your government 6,000 miles away must be changed... but I don't support the US military doing it." That is not non-interventionism.

    Non-interventionism is accepting that others may wish to live in a way you may not approve of.

    Non-interventionism in your neighbor's affairs - whether he enjoys reading the Bible or lighting up a marijuana cigarette (or maybe both) - is really the sine qua non of the libertarian mindset: "aint nobody's business if you do." You do not aggress against your neighbor just because you disagree with his life choices that do not infringe on your person or property and you extrapolate that dynamic to where you demand that to the highest extent possible your local, state, and federal governments treat you as you would treat your neighbor.

    The idea that this critical impulse somehow becomes null and void when it comes to international affairs is truly bizarre. In fact many self-described libertarians full-throatedly cheer when people are in the streets thousands of miles away trying to overthrow their governments. Somehow from this far distant vantage point they are just convinced that the mythical "free state" is about to break out somewhere.

    And when someone points out that the semi-hidden hand behind these uprisings is the US government, which seeks to create overseas governments of subservient elites to prop up the (anti-libertarian) US empire, they accuse that person of being an extremist or a conspiracy theorist...or they get really lazy and stupid and just claim you are a "supporter" of the dictator of the day.

    So, many US libertarians (who knew next to nothing about Venezuela) demanded our support for that great "libertarian" liberator of Venezuela, Juan Guaido, who turned out to be just another crook with zero support from Venezuelans (but a lot of support from the CIA!).

    They ignored the murky ties of Guaido and his compadres to the US government and its nearly 20 year effort to overthrow the Venezuelan government.

    In fact even Washington DC's flagship "libertarian" think tank, the Koch-funded CATO Institute, is hosting "regime change" conferences aimed at the overthrow of the Venezuelan government. Just this week, for example, they hosted a "What's Next for Venezuela?" conference where, sadly, the conclusion was not that we end sanctions and engage the country with trade and friendship - the libertarian approach - but rather it was the authoritarian approach that we must change the Venezuelan government.

    As openly advertised, the aim of the CATO conference was to "discuss international efforts that can be made to put pressure on Maduro’s regime."

    Let's get real: "pressure" = pain for civilians.

    In other words, "libertarian" CATO is looking for ways to promote the same regime change that is demanded by the likes of Marco Rubio, John Bolton, Elliott Abrams, and the rest of the neocons. Funny how that works.

    The policy? Squeeze the population, and if a few tens of thousands die because of US sanctions, well, in Madeleine Albright's words, it's "worth it" to get regime change.

    Among CATO's speakers were those funded by the US government through its regime change cut-out entities like National Endowment for Democracy and USAID. CATO is giving a libertarian fig-leaf to a thoroughly neoconservative foreign policy.

    That Koch's "libertarian" flagship organization is hosting regime-change conferences on Venezuela while Koch himself is being granted sainthood for funding an anti regime change think tank speaks volumes.

    "Libertarian" malpractice in the area of foreign affairs unfortunately does not end there. All non-interventionists with any understanding of the Middle East will cringe - and worse - at an absurd recent article published by the once-libertarian Foundation for Economic Education (FEE). Provocatively titled, "Iran Wants a War; America Should Not Oblige Them," the author writes of "a dangerous upsurge in Iranian aggression, designed specifically to elicit a military response from the United States" without once mentioning the precipitating factor: US withdrawal from the JCPOA and a US policy of "maximum pressure" which is in practice an economic blockade - itself a unilateral act of war against Iran!

    Translation: I punch you in the face and if you dare punch back you are the guilty party.

    The author of this steaming pile of interventionist feces completely ignores the antecedent to recent Iranian actions: US aggression toward Iran - reimposing economic sanctions, demanding that others not trade with Iran so as to suffocate its citizens in the hopes that in their desperation they overthrow their government.

    Instead, the Iranians just woke up one morning and decided to draw the United States into war!

    In fact, in the author's telling, it's actually Washington that is the victim of those pesky Ayatollas: "Indeed, the Ayatollah is running a risky gambit, and that’s exactly why America must resist the temptation to respond in kind."

    No, Bolton and Bibi have done nothing! It's the Iranians who out of the blue "desperately want to goad the United States into a fight, which is one reason too many not to oblige them."

    This is a loaded gun dressed up as an olive branch.

    The only thing that gives one hope is the near 100 percent condemnation of the piece in the comment section...

    Here's the bottom line: the murderous, parasitical machine of interventionism is setting its sights on libertarianism as its next host. Neocons demand that you don't call them neocons because everyone understands that is poison.

    There are plenty of dubious characters from abroad, flush with USAID money, claiming to be libertarian and seeking our support for their struggles thousands of miles away. Stick with the principles. If you really want to help country X, work to end US government sanctions against that country and to fully engage. Then they may eventually want to emulate us. If you sign on to a US-backed regime change that inevitably leaves the population worse off than the status quo ante (as it always does) and we continue to be hated as the arrogant empire that we've become, don't pretend it's someone else's fault.

    Hate socialism? Sign up to oppose military Keynesianism here at home.

    Work to end the US empire.

    Copyright © 2019 by RonPaul Institute. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit and a live link are given.

    Please donate to the Ron Paul Institute
    ...
    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...e-new-neocons/
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2
    Nope


    A few neocons falsely may have claimed to be Libertarians ( Bill O'Really, Tucker Carlson etc).

    That said, neocon/globalist/foreign firster lobbies have been actively trying to recruit politicians from all sides including Libertarians but with exception of a few gullible, simple minded folks here and there, they are shunned.
    Notorious Neocoservative and social liberal Democrat Sheldon Adelson funded GOP-Neocon-Lite wing lately is trying to do same to legitimize their globalist interventionist agenda/Iran war push for cause of parasitic foreign-first lobbies but they are bound to fail. Bold leadership by likes of rookie Amash so far, others are also starting to see things through to stop hijacking of GOP by globalist neocons.

    NEXODUS: Neoconservatives from both parties joining GOP-Adelson (MAGA)

    #1 GOP Cash Bundler, Sheldon Adelson, Calls For US to Bomb Iran w/Nuclear Weapons

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Nope


    A few neocons falsely may have claimed to be Libertarians ( Bill O'Rielly, Tucker Carlson etc).

    That said, neocon/globalist/foreign firster lobbies have been actively trying to recruit policians from all sides including Libertarians but with exception of a few gullible, simple menided folks here and there, they are shunned.
    Neocosnervtive Sheldon Adelson funded GOP-Neocon-Lite wing lately is trying to do same to legitimize their globalist interventionist agenda for cause of parasitic foreign-first lobbies but they are bound to fail. Bold leadership by likes of rookie Amash, others are also starting to see things through.
    Tucker is not a Neocon, more like a Paleocon as is Trump. The Koch's and CATO are not Libertarian. Libertarians are simply a useful tool for them. CATO is a Libertarian scam run by Neocons.

  5. #4

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Tucker is not a Neocon, more like a Paleocon as is Trump. The Koch's and CATO are not Libertarian. Libertarians are simply a useful tool for them. CATO is a Libertarian scam run by Neocons.
    Tucker is better on many things especially looking at his recent rehtoric. Maybe I was bit prejudiced on this having observed his worship of Bush-Cheney at CNN during early years of Iraq war.

  7. #6
    Vested interest in the MIC who create the very problems, lobby and win federal contracts to “fix” the problems.

    Some on this very board openly admit to not being libertarian, calling some of us names such as Lefty, Commie, for promoting liberty, freedom and fiscal responsibility, as well as calling Ron Paul out for not knowing what he’s talking about... those be your social-fascists.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Vested interest in the MIC who create the very problems, lobby and win federal contracts to “fix” the problems.

    Some on this very board openly admit to not being libertarian, calling some of us names such as Lefty, Commie, for promoting liberty, freedom and fiscal responsibility, as well as calling Ron Paul out for not knowing what he’s talking about... those be your social-fascists.
    Promoting open borders assures us a non-libertarian future. If that is what you are promoting here then it is not surprising if someone is calling you out for it.

    Perhaps the confusion over Ron comes from his rhetoric in recent years sounds like to some people to be contradictory to his earlier campaign platforms. I noticed that with you when I posted his two campaign platforms on immigration showing his policy is not exactly what you posted. You are to the left of Ron on immigration and much further to the left on that respect than most people in this forum.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Promoting open borders assures us a non-libertarian future. If that is what you are promoting here then it is not surprising if someone is calling you out for it.

    Perhaps the confusion over Ron comes from his rhetoric in recent years sounds like to some people to be contradictory to his earlier campaign platforms. I noticed that with you when I posted his two campaign platforms on immigration showing his policy is not exactly what you posted. You are to the left of Ron on immigration and much further to the left on that respect than most people in this forum.

    Twisting my words yet again. Amazing how some of you have that down to a rock-solid science. Because you have absolutely no principles whatsoever.


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    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Nope


    A few neocons falsely may have claimed to be Libertarians...
    A few?

    If you have trashed your own reputation and your opponents have a good reputation, the solution is simple. Just change your name to their name.

    Well, it's easy if the entire mainstream media are your lap dogs.

    The only question this raises in my mind is, why is the Ron Paul Institute lending FEE and CATO credibility they don't deserve by calling them libertarian?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 07-21-2019 at 12:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    A few?

    If you have trashed your own reputation and your opponents have a good reputation, the solution is simple. Just change your name to their name.

    Well, it's easy if the entire mainstream media are your lap dogs.
    ...
    Valid point, I was being extremely conservative when I said 'a few'

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Twisting my words yet again. Amazing how some of you have that down to a rock-solid science. Because you have absolutely no principles whatsoever.
    You are overreacting and I am not trying to twist your words. You are in every thread defending open borders and name calling anyone that opposes it.

    Why do you keep playing this game with everyone in the forum where you deny the beliefs that you posted? You want to believe in open borders, that is fine but then you try to deny it in the next set of posts makes it look like you are just trolling us here.

    Your belief in open borders disregards the fact that it is counter productive to developing a libertarian future society with the US. It has been proven time and time again that it grows government.

    You even went as far as to pop-in the thread to defend AOC who refers to anyone who is against open borders is Nazi's and then you trashed everyone that did not agree with you.
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6831531
    Last edited by kahless; 07-21-2019 at 12:55 PM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Tucker is better on many things especially looking at his recent rehtoric. Maybe I was bit prejudiced on this having observed his worship of Bush-Cheney at CNN during early years of Iraq war.
    Tucker is a Non Interventionist since 2004. He refused to for Bush in 2004 because of the iraq war.
    Did Bill O'reilly ever claim the he is a Libertarian? He is a Neocon.

  15. #13
    If the people of a country are trying to overthrow a tyrannical government we are not required to support the tyrannical government or not cheer for the freedom fighters by "non-interventionism".
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Well I'm a libertarian and I'm not a neocon by any stretch of the imagination.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  17. #15
    You tellin' me that McAdams doesn't know that the LP Chair is a CIA plant and should be ignored? Come on Danny, wise up son.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Vested interest in the MIC who create the very problems, lobby and win federal contracts to “fix” the problems.

    Some on this very board openly admit to not being libertarian, calling some of us names such as Lefty, Commie, for promoting liberty, freedom and fiscal responsibility, as well as calling Ron Paul out for not knowing what he’s talking about... those be your social-fascists.
    While neoconservative and MIC interests often have extreme overlap, they are not the same thing. Anyone who promotes war can be suspected of being MIC swamp crony war profiteers, but it is not always the case. There are political zealots (such as neocons or teocons) that promote war without profiting from war. They are all over the internet.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    You tellin' me that McAdams doesn't know that the LP Chair is a CIA plant ...
    I don’t know if that hypotheses has been confirmed, but he does fit the criteria of what McAdams is talking about.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  21. #18
    On the one hand, there are libertarians. On the other, there are people who may self-ascribe as libertarians, or may be called libertarians by the media, or may have supported libertarian candidates, but who are actually conservatives sympathetic to small-ish government. These two groups have gotten along pretty well in recent years, but the latent ideological differences are now reemerging. This is most obvious in relation to the culture wars (libertarians don't care, conservatives do) and immigration (libertarians are cosmopolitans, conservatives are nationalists). On foreign policy, libertarians and small government conservatives are still on the same page most of the time (e.g. we all oppose most everything the US government does overseas), but, to the OP's point, there is a difference in principle; conservatives value national sovereignty above individual rights, libertarians do not. So, no, libertarians aren't the "new neocons." Libertarians are libertarians; those making these accusations aren't.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    On the one hand, there are libertarians. On the other, there are people who may self-ascribe as libertarians, or may be called libertarians by the media, or may have supported libertarian candidates, but who are actually conservatives sympathetic to small-ish government. These two groups have gotten along pretty well in recent years, but the latent ideological differences are now reemerging. This is most obvious in relation to the culture wars (libertarians don't care, conservatives do) and immigration (libertarians are cosmopolitans, conservatives are nationalists). On foreign policy, libertarians and small government conservatives are still on the same page most of the time (e.g. we all oppose most everything the US government does overseas), but, to the OP's point, there is a difference in principle; conservatives value national sovereignty above individual rights, libertarians do not. So, no, libertarians aren't the "new neocons." Libertarians are libertarians; those making these accusations aren't.
    Ah, so you are a true libertarian and Daniel McAdams is not?

    You support foreign interventionism and regime change. That is what the late, great Justin Raimondo called “libertarian Trotskyism”.

    You are not a libertarian, and have previously described yourself as some kind of monarchist. You are also a globalist, which is consistent with just about any ideology that wants to control the world, including neoconservatism.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Ah, so you are a true libertarian
    Correct

    and Daniel McAdams is not?
    Don't know/care

    You support foreign interventionism and regime change.
    If/when it advances liberty, yes, as a libertarian not only can but must.

    That is what the late, great Justin Raimondo called “libertarian Trotskyism”.
    Noted

    You are not a libertarian and have previously described yourself as some kind of monarchist.
    There's no contradiction between monarchism and libertarianism.

    You are also a globalist, which is consistent with just about any ideology that wants to control the world, including neoconservatism.
    Liking the Simpsons is consistent with being a NAZI.

    Eating pasta is consistent with being Osama bin Laden.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 08-04-2019 at 07:13 PM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ...
    If/when it advances liberty, yes, as a libertarian not only can but must.
    Wrong. There is nothing libertarian about foreign interventionism and regime change.

    There's no contradiction between monarchism and libertarianism.
    As long as you are the benevolent Monarch, right? Sorry wrong again.

    Liking the Simpsons is consistent with being a NAZI.

    Eating pasta is consistent with being Osama bin Laden.
    All neoconservatives are globalists. Not all globalists are neoconservative.

    Weren't you inferring in another thread about mass shooters that being a nationalist is consistent with being a mass shooter?
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Wrong. There is nothing libertarian about foreign interventionism and regime change.

    As long as you are the benevolent Monarch, right? Sorry wrong again.
    Whatever you say

    All neoconservatives are globalists. Not all globalists are neoconservative.

    Weren't you inferring in another thread about mass shooters that being a nationalist is consistent with being a mass shooter?
    No, I was saying that several of the recent mass shooters in fact were nationalists.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  26. #23
    Well I'm not sure if I am a libertarian even though I passionately relate to many issues backed by Libertarians. The last time I voted was for Ron Paul and before that was Ross Perot...lol....I do not support Rand since he votes for sanctions and other issues I strongly oppose. I now refuse to participate in a corrupt process and the libertarian party has not ran a legitimate candidate since Dr. Paul. I took the name Democratic Republican for a FB group when the fake teaparty's surfaced so that no one else could hijack Thomas Jefferson's party and use it for their own twisted agenda on social media. I don't use it much since I do not wish to make it to the top of some FBI list although I do post here and there ...lol...I am definitely anti NWO. The neocons have a history of infiltrating a party. They did it to the Republicans first and then the democrats and now they are one party with 2 faces. Good cop-bad cop. It's obvious that they will claim the Libertarian party too. They already have the largest ones, now it's time to work down the list. The state of this countries current political parties are very sad indeed. As I talk to more of our youth, (early to mid 20's) I find that many of them are becoming more aware. The 30 something yr olds and above are mostly brainwashed Trumpsters...lol...even though he filled the swamp with the worst of the worse neocons
    Last edited by showpan; 08-04-2019 at 08:34 PM. Reason: spelling
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
    Thomas Jefferson

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by showpan View Post
    Well I'm not sure if I am a libertarian even though I passionately relate to many issues backed by Libertarians. The last time I voted was for Ron Paul and before that was Ross Perot...lol....I do not support Rand since he votes for sanctions and other issues I strongly oppose. I now refuse to participate in a corrupt process and the libertarian party has not ran a legitimate candidate since Dr. Paul. I took the name Democratic Republican for a FB group when the fake teaparty's surfaced so that no one else could hijack Thomas Jefferson's party and use it for their own twisted agenda on social media. I don't use it much since I do not wish to make it to the top of some FBI list although I do post here and there ...lol...I am definitely anti NWO. The neocons have a history of infiltrating a party. They did it to the Republicans first and then the democrats and now they are one party with 2 faces. Good cop-bad cop. It's obvious that they will claim the Libertarian party too. They already have the largest ones, now it's time to work down the list. The state of this countries current political parties are very sad indeed. As I talk to more of our youth, (early to mid 20's) I find that many of them are becoming more aware. The 30 something yr olds and above are mostly brainwashed Trumpsters...lol...even though he filled the swamp with the worst of the worse neocons
    It is interesting how, in my experience at least, that the really young ones (18yo range) seem to sense that something is very wrong these days and are hungry to learn. Perhaps the dearth of education now being received in public schools has left their minds very hungry for knowledge. Some kind of knowledge to fill the void that was left by years of training-for-the-tests-public-schooling. Those that go on to colleges are receiving the socialist indoctrination "knowledge" while those that do not, seek it out from other sources. This is why it's important for liberty minded older people to actively seek out young ones to talk to instead of letting that void be filled by anti-liberty sources.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals



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  29. #25
    Exactly. I am able to open the eyes of many younger kids these days. They know something is terribly wrong so I give them the resources and knowledge to paths that lead them to the truth. Once I get them to bite, they are eager to awaken themselves and question everything. You can lead a horse to water.
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
    Thomas Jefferson



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