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Thread: Debate Growing Over Whether Military Should Lower Enlistment Age to 16

  1. #1

    Debate Growing Over Whether Military Should Lower Enlistment Age to 16

    As the Army, Navy and other services contend with a thriving economy and a directive to expand their ranks, there is a growing debate over whether the military should consider lowering the minimum enlistment age from 17 to 16. More than a dozen countries, including the United Kingdom, already have adopted the policy.
    Critics say the idea is deeply flawed and presents a host of societal problems, but supporters argue that the Pentagon needs to think outside the box if it wants to continually overcome one of the toughest recruiting environments in decades.
    Neither the military nor lawmakers have given any indication that they are entertaining the idea, but some analysts say that opening the ranks to younger Americans could provide unique benefits and may be the kind of fundamental overhaul the recruiting system needs for the 21st century.
    “For one, many of the factors that disqualify older youths from joining — like criminal records — are not as present in younger teens,” said Shane McCarthy, chief marketing officer of Sandboxx, a leading technology platform that connects military members stationed abroad with families and friends at home. Mr. McCarthy also has advised military commands on how to better target recruits.

    "Currently, of the 75% of 17- to 24-year-olds who are ineligible to serve, for example, 10% are ineligible due to criminal records,” he wrote in a recent piece for the Military Times. “And, according to the Department of Justice, there are twice as many arrests of 18- to 20-year-olds as there are arrests of 15- to 17-year-olds.”


    Mr. McCarthy’s argument touched off a firestorm, with skeptics saying the move could create more problems than it would solve. Peter Warren Singer, a senior fellow at the Washington think tank New America, countered that lowering the enlistment age to 16 would undermine combat effectiveness and unit cohesion and create other problems.
    Mr. Singer, author of the book “Children at War,” also said the very idea shows a “misunderstanding [of] the different brain chemistry of youths and their ability to make informed judgment” and would destroy “the day-to-day lives of the poor drill instructors and commanders of these teens’ first unit.”

    More at: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...over-enlistme/


    This is part of the campaign to lower the voting age.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

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    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

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    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

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  3. #2
    I'm all for it, provided they are the children of politicians.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  4. #3

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    How about 12?
    That's next, libs would love to lower the voting age that far.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    I'm all for it, provided they are the children of politicians.
    No, children of politicians and rich business leaders should be exempt.

    Granted we need presence in many parts of the globe to defend our freedoms and those of our closest allies. Kids growing up in rough, working class neigborhoods are different and grow up fast ; many priviliged kids might not be as prepared to face rough war zones abroad away from family, can have greater risk of health issues without private doctors, bone spurs etc during early tender years.


    Likely Un-Related

    Top US General Says American Troops Should Be Ready To Die For Israel

  7. #6
    From 1802 until the National Defense Act of 1916, you had to be at least 18 and could not enlist under the age of 21 without parental consent. We can thank that Progressive archetype Woodrow Wilson and his desire to raise a conscript army in 1917 for doing away with that and ordering 18 YOs into service.

    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    How about 12?
    recruiters have recently been asking for permission to start targeting middle schoolers.

    btw, if you are parent of a young one and don't want the schools to give your kids info to military recruiters, you have to opt out:
    more info: https://nnomy.org/en/resources/count...ent-lists.html

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    How about 12?
    How about fetuses?
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by XNavyNuke View Post
    From 1802 until the National Defense Act of 1916, you had to be at least 18 and could not enlist under the age of 21 without parental consent. We can thank that Progressive archetype Woodrow Wilson and his desire to raise a conscript army in 1917 for doing away with that and ordering 18 YOs into service.

    XNN
    And I bet they had already planned to use it to lower the voting age back then.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    How about fetuses?
    The Abortionists would never stand for it, the party would embrace life because they would want to claim the votes of the unborn along with those of the dead.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    My states constitution requires service from anyone over 17 ( Article 12 Section 1 ). If Federals want to accept voluntary 16 yr olds with parental agreement , how is that different than accepting 17 yr olds ? .
    Do something Danke

  14. #12
    Can't buy alcohol until 21. Can't buy tobacco products till you're 18, 21 in some states. But we can ship you off to fight in wars you don't understand and tell you its all for freedom at age 17 and possibly 16.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    My states constitution requires service from anyone over 17 ( Article 12 Section 1 ). If Federals want to accept voluntary 16 yr olds with parental agreement , how is that different than accepting 17 yr olds ? .
    If it were only a matter of whether 16 year old could enlist I would probably say that I wasn't sure and maybe they should be able to but this is definitely tied to the campaign to lower the voting age, "old enough to die but not old enough to vote" was how they lowered it last time.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    My local national guard has a sign out front, one side says ask how to get $20,000 for college. The other says "Make Charlie Company great again"


    While obviously a play on MAGA it is basically saying "Sign up here, it currently isn't so great but maybe one day". Now there's incentive to sign up
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  17. #15
    Make drinking age equal draft age an amendment and vote.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's next, libs would love to lower the voting age that far.
    Good catch.

    No doubt , this is almost Hegelian, lowering the voting age would/will certainly follow.


    A point I had not considered till I read the 'lower to 12 post': it becomes clear
    that the lower the age of the voter the greater the 'liberalist' , kids are absolutely reliant
    on their parents , at 'tender' ages, they have no idea what it would mean to be out
    on their own carving out a life and supporting themselves.
    Would they vote for self reliance, fuch no they'd vote liberal/socialist every time.
    So yea, that would probably be next....



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  20. #17
    More age stuff.

    I oppose war period unless it is in actual legitimate defense.

    My grandparents owned and operated a farm before they were 16. They didn’t sit around playing video games 12 hours a night after sitting through a full day of Common Core. The word handout never uttered their mouths.

    At 14 I was working part time jobs in parts stores and body shops making money while working on a junk car which turned out like new when I was finished with it.

    Back in WW1 teens would lie about their age because they felt in their hearts they were fighting for a legitimate reason.

    18 years old nowadays provide a service without being on Welfare and the news calls them “children” and must be “rescued”, after fingerprinting them and then releasing them with a record.

    Even in France and Italy you can have wine and drink early on and they don’t have the problems of alcoholism like we do here.

    How about the family unit start taking on the responsibility of raising responsible kids so that idiotic questions like this don’t even need to brought up. In this day and age the consensus seems to be “it takes a village” and “government help me save me please make my own decisions for me” it doesn’t really matter if you are 16 or 36 - the end result is the same.

    I’d much rather have my offspring “vote” at 15 than many of the “R” folks in my committee meetings at 65. Too bad I can’t say that across the board, this country no longer has moral compass and asks all the wrong questions.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If it were only a matter of whether 16 year old could enlist I would probably say that I wasn't sure and maybe they should be able to but this is definitely tied to the campaign to lower the voting age, "old enough to die but not old enough to vote" was how they lowered it last time.
    I remember back in the 70's they came in with these age limits of 16 to buy cigarettes , 21 beer liquor and wine but you could get a work permit at 15 for a full time job and pay taxes and enlist at 17 and still had to wait to 18 to vote. I do not even know if they need a voting age , if you are 15 or 16 and pay a few thousand in taxes I am ok with voting , if you are 18 - 22 and do not work and live off your parents no need to vote
    Do something Danke

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I remember back in the 70's they came in with these age limits of 16 to buy cigarettes , 21 beer liquor and wine but you could get a work permit at 15 for a full time job and pay taxes and enlist at 17 and still had to wait to 18 to vote. I do not even know if they need a voting age , if you are 15 or 16 and pay a few thousand in taxes I am ok with voting , if you are 18 - 22 and do not work and live off your parents no need to vote
    On base drinking at 17.........

  23. #20
    I’m going to say no. Today’s 16 year olds are nothing like the 16 years olds who fought at Normandy.

    In addition the military has become mother hotbed of indoctrination. I really don’t see the advantage. If we are for the NAP, we don’t want to make it easier to join the military.
    Do something Dodgers.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's next, libs would love to lower the voting age that far.
    Don’t kid yourself. This would be the first step, or so the argument went in the 60s and 70s. If I’m old enough to die for my country, I should be old enough to vote.

    The other agenda behind this is age of consent based on the same argument.

    My big problem is that kids are so undereducated these days, they don’t know how to count change. And I’m supposed to trust them with a tank? Really?
    Last edited by euphemia; 07-20-2019 at 08:10 AM.
    Do something Dodgers.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I’m going to say no. Today’s 16 year olds are nothing like the 16 years olds who fought at Normandy.

    In addition the military has become mother hotbed of indoctrination. I really don’t see the advantage. If we are for the NAP, we don’t want to make it easier to join the military.
    I think that's a really bad thing.

    We, all of us, have permitted this to happen.

    The 16 y/o of yore deserves respect.

  26. #23
    Maybe we ought to send those supporting this bill to a mountain in Afghanistan.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Can't buy alcohol until 21. Can't buy tobacco products till you're 18, 21 in some states. But we can ship you off to fight in wars you don't understand and tell you its all for freedom at age 17 and possibly 16.
    Cant even purchase a firearm - they were also talking about raising the age to drive as many believed that a 16 yo is not mature enough.

    But they dont need responsibility, they just need some gamers to play shoot-em-up.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"





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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I remember back in the 70's they came in with these age limits of 16 to buy cigarettes , 21 beer liquor and wine but you could get a work permit at 15 for a full time job and pay taxes and enlist at 17 and still had to wait to 18 to vote. I do not even know if they need a voting age , if you are 15 or 16 and pay a few thousand in taxes I am ok with voting , if you are 18 - 22 and do not work and live off your parents no need to vote
    Voting should require a fully developed brain and some life experience, you should have to be 25 or 30 to vote.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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