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Thread: It’s Un-American To Be Anti-Free Speech: Protect the Right to Criticize the Government

  1. #1

    It’s Un-American To Be Anti-Free Speech: Protect the Right to Criticize the Government

    Ron Paul Institute
    Wednesday July 17, 2019
    Written by John W. Whitehead


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    Since when have we Americans been expected to bow submissively to authority and speak with awe and reverence to those who represent us? The constitutional theory is that we the people are the sovereigns, the state and federal officials only our agents. We who have the final word can speak softly or angrily. We can seek to challenge and annoy, as we need not stay docile and quiet.”

    — Justice William O. Douglas



    Unjust. Brutal. Criminal. Corrupt. Inept. Greedy. Power-hungry. Racist. Immoral. Murderous. Evil. Dishonest. Crooked. Excessive. Deceitful. Untrustworthy. Unreliable. Tyrannical.

    These are all words that have at some time or other been used to describe the US government.

    These are all words that I have used at some time or other to describe the US government. That I may feel morally compelled to call out the government for its wrongdoing does not make me any less of an American.

    If I didn’t love this country, it would be easy to remain silent. However, it is because I love my country, because I believe fervently that if we lose freedom here, there will be no place to escape to, I will not remain silent.

    Nor should you.

    Nor should any other man, woman or child—no matter who they are, where they come from, what they look like, or what they believe.

    This is the beauty of the dream-made-reality that is America. As Chelsea Manning recognized, “We’re citizens, not subjects. We have the right to criticize government without fear.” Indeed, the First Amendment does more than give us a right to criticize our country: it makes it a civic duty. Certainly, if there is one freedom among the many spelled out in the Bill of Rights that is especially patriotic, it is the right to criticize the government.

    The right to speak out against government wrongdoing is the quintessential freedom.

    Unfortunately, those who run the government don’t take kindly to individuals who speak truth to power. In fact, the government has become increasingly intolerant of speech that challenges its power, reveals its corruption, exposes its lies, and encourages the citizenry to push back against the government’s many injustices.

    This is nothing new, nor is it unique to any particular presidential administration.

    President Trump, who delights in exercising his right to speak (and tweet) freely about anything and everything that raises his ire, has shown himself to be far less tolerant of those with whom he disagrees, especially when they exercise their right to criticize the government.

    In his first few years in office, Trump has declared the media to be “the enemy of the people,” suggested that protesting should be illegal, and that NFL players who kneel in protest during the national anthem "shouldn’t be in the country." More recently, Trump lashed out at four Democratic members of Congress—all women of color— who have been particularly critical of his policies, suggesting that they “go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came.”

    The uproar over Trump’s “America—love it or leave it” remarks have largely focused on its racist overtones, but that misses the point: it’s un-American to be anti-free speech.

    It’s unfortunate that Trump is so clueless about the Constitution. Then again, as the history books make clear, Trump is not alone in his presidential disregard for the rights of the citizenry, especially as it pertains to the right of the people to criticize those in power.

    While the government has been undermining our free speech rights for quite a while now, Trump’s antagonism towards free speech is much more overt. For example, at a recent White House Social Media Summit, Trump defined free speech as follows: “To me free speech is not when you see something good and then you purposely write bad. To me that’s very dangerous speech, and you become angry at it. But that’s not free speech.”

    Except Trump is about as wrong as one can be on this issue.

    Good, bad or ugly, it’s all free speech unless as defined by the government it falls into one of the following categories: obscenity, fighting words, defamation (including libel and slander), child pornography, perjury, blackmail, incitement to imminent lawless action, true threats, and solicitations to commit crimes.

    This idea of “dangerous” speech, on the other hand, is peculiarly authoritarian in nature. What it amounts to is speech that the government fears could challenge its chokehold on power.

    The kinds of speech the government considers dangerous enough to red flag and subject to censorship, surveillance, investigation, prosecution and outright elimination include: hate speech, bullying speech, intolerant speech, conspiratorial speech, treasonous speech, threatening speech, incendiary speech, inflammatory speech, radical speech, anti-government speech, right-wing speech, left-wing speech, extremist speech, politically incorrect speech, etc.

    Yet this idea that only individuals who agree with the government are entitled to the protections of the First Amendment couldn’t be further from what James Madison, the father of the Constitution, intended. Indeed, Madison was very clear about the fact that the First Amendment was established to protect the minority against the majority.

    I’ll take that one step further: the First Amendment was intended to protect the citizenry from the government’s tendency to censor, silence and control what people say and think.

    Having lost our tolerance for free speech in its most provocative, irritating and offensive forms, the American people have become easy prey for a police state where only government speech is allowed. You see, the powers-that-be understand that if the government can control speech, it controls thought and, in turn, it can control the minds of the citizenry.

    This is how freedom rises or falls.

    Americans of all stripes would do well to remember that those who question the motives of government provide a necessary counterpoint to those who would blindly follow where politicians choose to lead.

    We don’t have to agree with every criticism of the government, but we must defend the rights of all individuals to speak freely without fear of punishment or threat of banishment.

    As I point out in my book Battlefield America: The War on the American People, tolerance for dissent is vital if we are to survive as a free nation.



    http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives...he-government/
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  3. #2
    What garbage.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The uproar over Trump’s “America—love it or leave it” remarks have largely focused on its racist overtones, but that misses the point: it’s un-American to be anti-free speech.
    I disagree. It is only un-American for the general government to restrict free speech. There is nothing in Article 1, Section 10 that prevents an individual State from passing a law restricting speech. States were designed to be relatively free to manage their own affairs without intrusion from the general government.

  5. #4
    Stupid leftist tripe trying to squelch Trump's freedom of speech.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    If I didn’t love this country, it would be easy to remain silent. However, it is because I love my country, because I believe fervently that if we lose freedom here, there will be no place to escape to, I will not remain silent.
    I agree 100%. And nothing will cause us to lose freedom faster than continuing to allow millions of wretched refuse invade the country that have no concept of, no philosophical grounding in, liberty and just are looking to make a fast buck.

    Nor should any other man, woman or child—no matter who they are, where they come from, what they look like, or what they believe.
    I'm assuming he's talking about Omar and the rest of the $#@! broads.

    So, they have free speech rights to tell me my country will no longer be mine, but I have no free speech right to respond?
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I agree 100%. And nothing will cause us to lose freedom faster than continuing to allow millions of wretched refuse invade the country that have no concept of, no philosophical grounding in, liberty and just are looking to make a fast buck.



    I'm assuming he's talking about Omar and the rest of the $#@! broads.

    So, they have free speech rights to tell me my country will no longer be mine, but I have no free speech right to respond?
    TDS is a mental illness and when added to the libertarian tendency to embrace enemies and hate friends it can turn your brain inside out.

    Trump has done nothing to make speech illegal and this idiot wants to make Trump keep his mouth shut in the name of free speech for people who are free to speak and use that freedom to call for an end to free speech.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    I disagree. It is only un-American for the general government to restrict free speech. There is nothing in Article 1, Section 10 that prevents an individual State from passing a law restricting speech. States were designed to be relatively free to manage their own affairs without intrusion from the general government.
    I disagree. My Natural Rights override Article 1, Section 10, as well as anything any state constitution, statute or ordinance may attempt to restrict.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What garbage.
    Please be a little more specific in your critique.
    "The Patriarch"

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Please be a little more specific in your critique.
    Please read the rest of what I wrote in my other posts.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Stupid leftist tripe trying to squelch Trump's freedom of speech.
    I think, if anything, it was sticking up for Trump's freedom of speech.
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    It’s Un-American To Be Anti-Free Speech: Protect the Right to Criticize the Government

    Ron Paul Institute
    Wednesday July 17, 2019
    Written by John W. Whitehead


    http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives...he-government/


    While I have great respect for RPI and Free Speech, criticizing our government , war time Prez/VP (Bush/Cheney e.g.,), our closest allies can be seen as unpatriotic and should be avoided. Once the wars have ended and troops have returned home (from Iraq, Syria, Gaza, global bases abroad etc), then government policies and Prez can be criticized. In the mean time Trust the President ; Constitution is not death warrant and can be suspended temporarily while troops are abroad.




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    https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/12...omment-page-1/

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Stupid leftist tripe trying to squelch Trump's freedom of speech.
    What? How?
    "The Patriarch"

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Please read the rest of what I wrote in my other posts.
    I did. Not helping. Please be more specific.
    "The Patriarch"

  17. #15
    I wonder if he heard it zoom over his head?
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    While I have great respect for RPI and Free Speech, criticizing our government , war time Prez/VP (Bush/Cheney e.g.,), our closest allies can be seen as unpatriotic and should be avoided. Once the wars have ended and troops have returned home (from Iraq, Syria, Gaza, global bases abroad etc), then government policies and Prez can be criticized. In the mean time Trust the President ; Constitution is not death warrant and can be suspended temporarily while troops are abroad.

    I prefer not to wait.

    Come to think of it, I remember Bush W being elected again, using that philosophy.
    Last edited by PAF; 07-17-2019 at 06:50 PM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    I think, if anything, it was sticking up for Trump's freedom of speech.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    What? How?


    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    President Trump, who delights in exercising his right to speak (and tweet) freely about anything and everything that raises his ire, has shown himself to be far less tolerant of those with whom he disagrees, especially when they exercise their right to criticize the government.

    In his first few years in office, Trump has declared the media to be “the enemy of the people,”
    He is right and he has a right to say it.

    The bit about saying protests should be illegal is worrisome but since it come from WaPo and they have a paywall I am forced to assume it is twisted lies from the #1 Enemy of the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    and that NFL players who kneel in protest during the national anthem "shouldn’t be in the country."
    That quote is presented without context so it is probably twisted but it is still a perfectly valid opinion to have about people who hate America itself. (and that is what they are, the Betsy Ross flag thing proves it)

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    More recently, Trump lashed out at four Democratic members of Congress—all women of color— who have been particularly critical of his policies, suggesting that they “go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came.”
    Trump is absolutely right and making an issue out of them being "women of color" is leftist garbage insult added to injury.
    They are nemies of freedom and America and they should leave the country and go somewhere they like better.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The uproar over Trump’s “America—love it or leave it” remarks have largely focused on its racist overtones, but that misses the point: it’s un-American to be anti-free speech.
    More racism garbage and an attack on Trump's freedom of speech that claims to be a defense of freedom of speech.



    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    While the government has been undermining our free speech rights for quite a while now, Trump’s antagonism towards free speech is much more overt. For example, at a recent White House Social Media Summit, Trump defined free speech as follows: “To me free speech is not when you see something good and then you purposely write bad. To me that’s very dangerous speech, and you become angry at it. But that’s not free speech.”
    Again very little context is provided but lying is an abuse of free speech and Trump isn't calling for speech control, he is calling out liars who try to hide behind freedom of speech and he has the right to speak his mind about it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I disagree. My Natural Rights override Article 1, Section 10, as well as anything any state constitution, statute or ordinance may attempt to restrict.
    You are arguing against something I didn't address. You entirely missed my point. Only the general government restricting speech can be seen as un-American. What is American is the States being allowed to manage their own affairs independently from the general government. If the sovereign people of a State want laws restricting speech, then their representatives in the State government execute their wishes. THAT is the essence of America.

    Your argument is valid. I would generally support free speech at the State level. However, if my State chose to violate my Natural Rights, I am free to move to one that satisfies my needs.
    Last edited by familydog; 07-17-2019 at 07:28 PM.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    You are arguing against something I didn't address. You entirely missed my point. Only the general government restricting speech can be seen as un-American. What is American is the States being allowed to manage their own affairs independently from the general government. If the sovereign people of a State want laws restricting speech, then their representatives in the State government execute their wishes. THAT is the essence of America.

    Your argument is valid. I would generally support free speech at the State level. However, if my State chose to violate my Natural Rights, I am free to move to one that satisfies my needs.
    What if all states decided to violate your "Natural Rights". Where would you go?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    You are arguing against something I didn't address. You entirely missed my point. Only the general government restricting speech can be seen as un-American. What is American is the States being allowed to manage their own affairs independently from the general government. If the sovereign people of a State want laws restricting speech, then their representatives in the State government execute their wishes. THAT is the essence of America.

    Your argument is valid. I would generally support free speech at the State level. However, if my State chose to violate my Natural Rights, I am free to move to one that satisfies my needs.
    A government, state or local, may form and legislates its own affairs. But when the idea that a state, or local, may choose to violate ones Natural Rights and therefore you are free to move to someplace else, someday there may be no place else to go.

    Which is why my signature is essential and the foundation of all other rights.

    By your analogy, "free speech zones" in "public space" would be allowable by state or local government. That is a very dangerous precedent to even suggest.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    What if all states decided to violate your "Natural Rights".
    What would be an example of a right that every State violated without unconstitutional coercion from the general government?

    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Where would you go?
    This is a silly question. America was founded on compromise. Americans will find at least one State that offers them most of what they want.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    A government, state or local, may form and legislates its own affairs. But when the idea that a state, or local, may choose to violate ones Natural Rights and therefore you are free to move to someplace else, someday there may be no place else to go.

    Which is why my signature is essential and the foundation of all other rights.

    By your analogy, "free speech zones" in "public space" would be allowable by state or local government. That is a very dangerous precedent to even suggest.
    Dude is a moron. I just get neg repped. He's been with us since the beginning. Just like Zippy.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    What would be an example of a right that every State violated without unconstitutional coercion from the general government?



    This is a silly question. America was founded on compromise. Americans will find at least one State that offers them most of what they want.
    Are you trying to make an argument?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    A government, state or local, may form and legislates its own affairs. But when the idea that a state, or local, may choose to violate ones Natural Rights and therefore you are free to move to someplace else, someday there may be no place else to go.
    Jefferson and other radical founders would argue that a revolution would be in order. In fact, Jefferson argued for a perpetual revolution. Personally, I am not as radical as Jefferson, but I see his point.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    By your analogy, "free speech zones" in "public space" would be allowable by state or local government. That is a very dangerous precedent to even suggest.
    I hate to nitpick, but its not that States would be "allowed," its that they have the sovereignty to make such rules. Is it a dangerous precedent to set? Of course, but that's the system we have. Its also the system Ron Paul fought so hard for.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Are you trying to make an argument?
    I see you have no interest in a genuine intellectual discussion. I'll keep that in mind the next time you immaturely snipe at me.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    I see you have no interest in a genuine intellectual discussion.


    I'll keep that in mind the next time you immaturely snipe at me.
    Please do.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    Its also the system Ron Paul fought so hard for.
    I hope your handlers realize this is going to be a very tough sale.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What garbage.
    Try reading the article.
    If I didn’t love this country, it would be easy to remain silent. However, it is because I love my country, because I believe fervently that if we lose freedom here, there will be no place to escape to, I will not remain silent.

    Nor should you.

    Nor should any other man, woman or child—no matter who they are, where they come from, what they look like, or what they believe.

    This is the beauty of the dream-made-reality that is America. As Chelsea Manning recognized, “We’re citizens, not subjects. We have the right to criticize government without fear.” Indeed, the First Amendment does more than give us a right to criticize our country: it makes it a civic duty. Certainly, if there is one freedom among the many spelled out in the Bill of Rights that is especially patriotic, it is the right to criticize the government.

    The right to speak out against government wrongdoing is the quintessential freedom.

    Unfortunately, those who run the government don’t take kindly to individuals who speak truth to power. In fact, the government has become increasingly intolerant of speech that challenges its power, reveals its corruption, exposes its lies, and encourages the citizenry to push back against the government’s many injustices.

    This is nothing new, nor is it unique to any particular presidential administration.
    There is no spoon.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Try reading the article.
    I did, try reading my other posts.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    Jefferson and other radical founders would argue that a revolution would be in order. In fact, Jefferson argued for a perpetual revolution. Personally, I am not as radical as Jefferson, but I see his point.



    I hate to nitpick, but its not that States would be "allowed," its that they have the sovereignty to make such rules. Is it a dangerous precedent to set? Of course, but that's the system we have. Its also the system Ron Paul fought so hard for.
    States lost most of their sovereignty with the "Civil" War.
    There is no spoon.

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