Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 105

Thread: Sens. Mike Lee, Rand Paul are holding up 9/11 victims fund

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post
    But it's the correct answer, isn't it?

    NO. it's not. IMO

    Got to ask Are you a robot or human?
    I wonder what sort of pensions and life insurance those who died had? A couple bucks a pay check and if I am tragically killed on the job, my family is set.

    I get it. It is an emotional issue.

    So are hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, forest fires, plane crashes and the like. It is heartbreaking how cruel the world can be.

    But what level of tragedy is necessary to financially compensate those who were maimed or killed? And in perpetuity no less with no real budget estimations.

    Obviously you do not have to be a robot to draw the line somewhere.

    In my opinion, it ought not be drawn where the government is granted the authority to steal or borrow from future generations to pay for things today. After all, it is naive to think there won't be future tragedies. Future tragedies which will not receive the response needed due to that generation being burdened with prior generational debt.

    Also consider that there will be a costly bureaucracy built behind these funds. It may be 50/50 with half going to those in need and the other half being squandered by administrative ineffectiveness. It may be more. It isn't just that it is immoral for the government to steal (even in the name of charity) it is that they are also the most inefficient and corrupt group of people to be put in charge of the money. They will be taken by fraudsters and much will be spent on a whole lot of nothing.

    Americans are a generous people. Four hundred and ten billion dollars generous and that is after being taken from to the tune of 20-50 percent. Let charity work. The government isn't the answer.... whether the question is disaster relief, AIDS research, or 9/11 victim funds.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    I wonder what sort of pensions and life insurance those who died had? A couple bucks a pay check and if I am tragically killed on the job, my family is set.

    I get it. It is an emotional issue.

    So are hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, forest fires, plane crashes and the like. It is heartbreaking how cruel the world can be.

    But what level of tragedy is necessary to financially compensate those who were maimed or killed? And in perpetuity no less with no real budget estimations.

    Obviously you do not have to be a robot to draw the line somewhere.

    In my opinion, it ought not be drawn where the government is granted the authority to steal or borrow from future generations to pay for things today. After all, it is naive to think there won't be future tragedies. Future tragedies which will not receive the response needed due to that generation being burdened with prior generational debt.

    Also consider that there will be a costly bureaucracy built behind these funds. It may be 50/50 with half going to those in need and the other half being squandered by administrative ineffectiveness. It may be more. It isn't just that it is immoral for the government to steal (even in the name of charity) it is that they are also the most inefficient and corrupt group of people to be put in charge of the money. They will be taken by fraudsters and much will be spent on a whole lot of nothing.

    Americans are a generous people. Four hundred and ten billion dollars generous and that is after being taken from to the tune of 20-50 percent. Let charity work. The government isn't the answer.... whether the question is disaster relief, AIDS research, or 9/11 victim funds.
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to kcchiefs6465 again."

  4. #63
    But what level of tragedy is necessary to financially compensate those who were maimed or killed? And in perpetuity no less with no real budget estimations.

    Who knows? But again our GOV used this event for 2 seemingly perpetual wars & again again again.. Lied to its citizens by changing EPA air quality numbers..

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Also consider that there will be a costly bureaucracy built behind these funds. It may be 50/50 with half going to those in need and the other half being squandered by administrative ineffectiveness. It may be more. It isn't just that it is immoral for the government to steal (even in the name of charity) it is that they are also the most inefficient and corrupt group of people to be put in charge of the money. They will be taken by fraudsters and much will be spent on a whole lot of nothing.
    It's probably worse than 50/50. I recall hearing years ago about an audit of some federal government "charity" program or other (I don't remember which) - the report found that only 7 percent of the program's receipts had actually been spent on its mandated mission. The other 93 percent went to salaries, staff increases, promotions and assorted other bureaucratic overhead ...


    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law." - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
    MOFA (Make Orwell Fiction Again)



  6. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post
    Who knows? But again our GOV used this event for 2 seemingly perpetual wars & again again again.. Lied to its citizens by changing EPA air quality numbers..
    Another reason that I particularly do not trust them to be in charge of charity or tax monies.

    In my opinion it is a smack to the face (considering their role and general incompetence with regards to 9/11).
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  8. #66
    The Feds (and anyone who advocates for this involuntarily-funded "fund") have no more business taking from me and mine and giving it over to (an extremely small subset of) New Yorkers than they have taking from me and mine and giving it over to Pakistanis or Azerbaijanis or Wherever-the-hell-is.

    As far as I'm concerned, New York and its eponymous city might as well be a foreign country. I've never been there - or to Pakistan or Azerbaijan or Wherever-the-hell - and I don't have any plans or intentions of ever doing so - so why the hell should I forcibly be put on the hook for the tragedies that happen in those places? They don't have a goddam monopoly on tragedy - so why the hell are they so much more deserving of federal funding at taxpayer expense than the far greater number of other victims of other tragedies in other places?

    As far as I can tell, this whole issue derives from little more than the desire of politicians (and $#@!s like Jon Stewart) to publicly masturbate their "compassion" (and thereby signal their "virtue") at the expense of other people ...

  9. #67
    Certainly need somebody to make sure no graft comes from this

    Fwiw 4 additional responders have died since last week

    All 50 states sent people, not sure the health of those folks

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post
    Not a good look for Rand here on National Stage. Looks heartless

    Hope he extends hand to hurting 911 responder community who were lied to by our Gov when Bush Admin changed EPA air quality numbers

    He could look a lot more heartless. First thing I asked when I first heard about the fund was, "Don't those people already have pensions and medical plans paid for by taxpayers?"
    "Self conquest is the greatest of all victories." - Plato

  11. #69

  12. #70
    "so why the hell are they so much more deserving of federal funding at taxpayer expense than the far greater number of other victims of other tragedies in other places?"

    Since you feel this way I'm sure you will feel the same way when those coal miners in Kentucky whose checks are bouncing because their mines are going belly up come to D.C. demanding a bailout. I have no doubt about it.

    The question is...will Rand feel the same way?

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Paul View Post
    "so why the hell are they so much more deserving of federal funding at taxpayer expense than the far greater number of other victims of other tragedies in other places?"

    Since you feel this way I'm sure you will feel the same way when those coal miners in Kentucky whose checks are bouncing because their mines are going belly up come to D.C. demanding a bailout. I have no doubt about it.
    Wow! You're exactly right. How did you guess?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Paul View Post
    The question is...will Rand feel the same way?
    I don't know. Maybe not. If he doesn't ... well, so what?

    What's your point? That politicians are gonna politic? Is that really some kind of news to you?

    But if you know of someone in Congress whose shenanigans I should disapprove even less than I do for Rand or Massie, then by all means, tell me who that is. I'm all ears ...
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 07-23-2019 at 12:47 AM.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post
    Certainly need somebody to make sure no graft comes from this
    Then you remove the entire purpose for putting the government in charge of it.



  15. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  16. #73
    Guess you just want to argue & be a pain in the as*. Good luck with that

    Bill will come up for straight vote today

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post
    Fwiw 4 additional responders have died since last week
    And rushing through this bill without the opportunity to offer amendments would not have changed that at all. And neither will passing a bill that lasts 70 years and has no budget cap.

  18. #75
    Doubt anyone on here knew 4 responders died this past week.

    Of course financial responsibility needs to be in guard here..we already know that

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post
    Doubt anyone on here knew 4 responders died this past week.

    Of course financial responsibility needs to be in guard here..we already know that
    Over 60,000 people died in the USA last week. Most of them by causes that are no less heart wrenching.

    Don't talk about financial responsibility when your entire position here is to argue for the use of violence to force other people to spend their money on something that you're not willing to spend your own money on voluntarily.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post

    Of course financial responsibility needs to be in guard here..we already know that
    There should be no limit on how many $Billions Trump & leader McConnell donate to the 9/11 responders. Gov needs to get out of the way and let them have at it.

    Socialism is NOT the answer.

    Last edited by RonZeplin; 07-23-2019 at 08:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  21. #78

    Lightbulb Davy Crockett saved from socialism

    Farmer saves Davy Crockett from socialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  22. #79
    "What's your point? That politicians are gonna politic? Is that really some kind of news to you?"

    No, in fact I actually find it refreshing. What I can't stand is hypocrites who pose as "tough on spending" trying to make a point at someone else's expense (and American heroes no less) when they wouldn't make the same point on their own people.

  23. #80
    According to Sheppard Smith, Rand just voted "No" on the bill again. I suspect the media circus is about to begin. Again.

    Update: They offered amendments.



  24. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  25. #81

    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1153753565346893833

    I have no doubt, people will choose to remain ignorant on this.
    (i.e. "Fa-fa-fa-tax cuts for billionaires! You hate first responders! etc")

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post
    Doubt anyone on here knew 4 responders died this past week.

    Of course financial responsibility needs to be in guard here..we already know that
    then you would voted against it as well right? because a bill that will survive past most of our lifetimes and has no budget cap and not paid for, is not financial responsibility.

  27. #83
    There i was in tower two....

    Last edited by tommyrp12; 07-23-2019 at 04:34 PM.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Paul View Post
    " simply asking for a vote on an amendment to offset the cost."

    If we closed Ft. Campbell, would that offset the cost Senator? Cut tobacco subsides?, coal subsidies? Privatize the TVA? Sheesh! I can think a lot of things which benefit the state of Kentucky from the federal government which gutless Rand doesn't have a problem spending money on which could be used to offset 9-11 first responder costs.

    I hear Rand's writing a new book. It's called "How to be an $#@! for Dummies" I'm sure holding up money for 9-11 First Responders will have its own chapter.
    All Rand did here was insist on allowing debate on this spending so that cuts elsewhere in the budget could be made to pay for it without increasing net spending.

    You seem to be suggesting that you don't think Rand would do that exact same thing for spending that specifically benefits his constituents in Kentucky. I am pretty sure that he would. And I don't see why you doubt it.

    Do you have any examples to support your insinuation?

  29. #85
    "We have a nearly trillion dollar deficit and $22 trillion in debt. Spending is out of control."

    Indeed and your boss in the Senate GOP caucus and the President just signed off on on a budget which is going to increase that debt. What are you going to do about it Rand?

    Sucking up just looks pathetic when you gain nothing from it and on that score Rand has everyone beat by a mile except Lindsay Graham.

    "You seem to be suggesting that you don't think Rand would do that exact same thing for spending that specifically benefits his constituents in Kentucky. I am pretty sure that he would. And I don't see why you doubt it."


    If Rand has a TVA privatization plan out there or is willing to cut the fat in the Pentagon budget by closing Ft. Campbell, I haven't seen it. Trying to prop up a dying coal industry which in market forces is rendering uneconomical? I've seen that.

  30. #86
    Inside story on how 911 first responder pounded Mitch McConnell into action:

    Didn't know Rand didn't meet 911 group in person in 2015, but explains his cold stance somewhat.. Sounds like Senator Lee is creepy individual

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-in...Hw8hlIckaFrni8

  31. #87
    What are the odds that two random posters quote rather than [QUOTE] anything with a similar prose and opinion?

    If you asked me, I would say that is creepy.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Paul View Post
    " simply asking for a vote on an amendment to offset the cost."

    If we closed Ft. Campbell, would that offset the cost Senator? Cut tobacco subsides?, coal subsidies? Privatize the TVA? Sheesh! I can think a lot of things which benefit the state of Kentucky from the federal government which gutless Rand doesn't have a problem spending money on which could be used to offset 9-11 first responder costs.

    I hear Rand's writing a new book. It's called "How to be an $#@! for Dummies" I'm sure holding up money for 9-11 First Responders will have its own chapter.
    You do realize you sound like a screeching feminist with your hair on fire, right?

    Rand does this for every bill. He tries to fund every bill with existing funds before tapping into new funding. Rand is the best in the Senate when it comes to fiscal responsibility.

    Rand said on the floor that no funding was being held up, checks were still being written. This hurts nobody. The media is lying.

    If you actually cared about fiscal responsibility, you would support the Senator who cares about it the most, instead of trashing him. From you posts, I have to assume that you don't care at all about fiscal responsibility and are only here to trash people who do care about it based on lies from the establishment.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



  33. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  34. #89
    "Rand does this for every bill. He tries to fund every bill with existing funds before tapping into new funding."

    Sure, by cutting funding that doesn't harm the special interests in his home state. I don't know about you but being "fiscally responsible" has better optics when you're NOT trying to stick the budget knife in someone else's back, especially when they are in wheelchairs.

    "Rand is the best in the Senate when it comes to fiscal responsibility."

    That's akin to being the tallest building in Topeka. Considering the red ink the country is drowning in right now, I'd rather be screeching with my hair on fire (which one would expect when one's hair is on fire) than be the emperor with no clothes on, oblivious to his situation such as yourself.

    Reportedly McConnell told Trump that no President ever lost re-election spending more money so we can expect the new budget deal to pass the Senate next week and Rand will get his free vote when the margin is 79-21 in favor and he can posture and preen about spending and be utterly irrelevant while the country continues to drown in red ink. And then we can wonder if had chosen to use his political capital to back Matt Bevin back in 2014 and send McConnell to the dustbin of history where he belongs instead kissing his arse to get his non-support for his "glorious" Presidential run, whether it would be Rand in the White House setting the budget and not Trump.

    He wishes not to be a gadfly like his father. That's fine. But I'd rather be a gadfly than a slug any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Gadflies still fly. Slugs get stomped on.

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Paul View Post
    "Rand does this for every bill. He tries to fund every bill with existing funds before tapping into new funding."

    Sure, by cutting funding that doesn't harm the special interests in his home state. I don't know about you but being "fiscally responsible" has better optics when you're NOT trying to stick the budget knife in someone else's back, especially when they are in wheelchairs.

    "Rand is the best in the Senate when it comes to fiscal responsibility."

    That's akin to being the tallest building in Topeka. Considering the red ink the country is drowning in right now, I'd rather be screeching with my hair on fire (which one would expect when one's hair is on fire) than be the emperor with no clothes on, oblivious to his situation such as yourself.

    Reportedly McConnell told Trump that no President ever lost re-election spending more money so we can expect the new budget deal to pass the Senate next week and Rand will get his free vote when the margin is 79-21 in favor and he can posture and preen about spending and be utterly irrelevant while the country continues to drown in red ink. And then we can wonder if had chosen to use his political capital to back Matt Bevin back in 2014 and send McConnell to the dustbin of history where he belongs instead kissing his arse to get his non-support for his "glorious" Presidential run, whether it would be Rand in the White House setting the budget and not Trump.

    He wishes not to be a gadfly like his father. That's fine. But I'd rather be a gadfly than a slug any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Gadflies still fly. Slugs get stomped on.
    You are the slug.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-30-2017, 07:42 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-28-2017, 05:08 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-22-2015, 10:57 AM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-22-2015, 10:39 AM
  5. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-10-2014, 10:59 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •