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Thread: Conservatives Against Liberty

  1. #1

    Conservatives Against Liberty

    Written by Ron Paul
    Monday July 15, 2019
    Ron Paul Institute


    rp-weekly-button.jpg


    Recently several prominent social and populist conservatives have attacked libertarianism. These conservatives, some of whom are allies in the fight against our hyper-interventionist foreign policy, blame libertarianism for a variety of social and economic ills. The conservative attack on libertarianism — like the attack on the freedom philosophy launched by leftists — is rooted in factual, economic, and philosophical errors.

    Libertarianism’s right-wing critics claim libertarianism is the dominant ideology of the Republican establishment. This is an odd claim since the Republican leadership embraces anti-libertarian policies like endless wars, restrictions on civil liberties, government interference in our personal lives, and massive spending increases on welfare as well as warfare.

    Anti-libertarian conservatives confuse libertarianism with the authoritarian “neoliberalism” embraced by both major parties. This confusion may be why these conservatives blame libertarians for the American middle class’s eroding standard of living. Conservatives are correct to be concerned about the economic challenges facing the average American, but they are mistaken to place the blame on the free market.

    The American people are not suffering from an excess of free markets. They suffer from an excess of taxes, regulations, and, especially, fiat money. Therefore, populist conservatives should join libertarians in seeking to eliminate federal regulations, repeal the 16th Amendment, and restore a free-market monetary system.

    Instead of fighting to end the welfare-regulatory system that benefits economic and political elites at the expense of average Americans, populist conservatives are promoting increased economic interventionism. For example, many populist conservatives support increased infrastructure spending and tariffs and other forms of protectionism.

    Like all forms of central planning, these schemes prevent goods and services from being used for the purposes most valued by consumers. This distorts the marketplace and lowers living standards — including of people whose jobs are temporally saved or created by these government interventions. Those workers would be better off in the long term finding new jobs in a free market.

    Anti-free-market conservatives ignore how their policies harm those they claim to care about. For example, protectionism harms farmers and others working in businesses depending on international trade.

    The most common complaint of social conservatives is that libertarianism promotes immorality. These conservatives confuse a libertarian’s opposition to outlawing drugs, for example, with moral approval of drug use. Many libertarians condemn drug use and other destructive behaviors. However, libertarians reject the use of government force to prevent individuals from choosing to engage in these behaviors. Instead, libertarians support the right of individuals to use peaceful means to persuade others not to engage in destructive or immoral behaviors.

    Libertarians also support the right of individuals not to associate with, or to subsidize in any way, those whose lifestyles or beliefs they find objectionable. Social conservatives object to libertarians because social conservatives wish to use government power to force people to be good. This is the worst type of statism because it seeks to control our minds and souls.

    Most people accept the idea that it is wrong to initiate force against those engaging in peaceful behaviors. Libertarians apply this nonaggression principle to government. Making government follow the nonaggression principle would end unjust wars, income and inflation taxes, and the destruction caused by the use of force to control what we do with our property, how we raise our children, who we associate with, and what we put into our bodies. Making governments abide by the nonaggression principle is the only way to restore a society that is free, prosperous, and moral.


    http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives...ainst-liberty/
    Last edited by PAF; 07-16-2019 at 05:58 AM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  3. #2
    Ron Paul, he just doesn't get it anymore.
    "The Patriarch"

  4. #3
    gadfly
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  5. #4
    windmill tilter
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬

  6. #5
    find it interesting that NeoLiberalism has different meanings to different people. in this article Paul calls it Authoritarian. But Progressives link it directly to Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman...... Odd.
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  7. #6
    Dr Paul is a sharp fella...

    So called supporters of the free market - they love them some protectionist tariffs by trump. Nothing like abandoning free market principles to save the free market.

    Another point that Dr Paul had made in the past - Why not have states impose tariffs on one another? That'd be good, right? For that matter, why not allow each county, or better yet - restrict production to each household? Cant get much more protection than that - at what point is a tariff not a good idea, and why?

    I must say, I'm really disappointed with how many folks have just gone all in on the trump train. Especially here, of all places.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    Dr Paul is a sharp fella...

    So called supporters of the free market - they love them some protectionist tariffs by trump. Nothing like abandoning free market principles to save the free market.

    Another point that Dr Paul had made in the past - Why not have states impose tariffs on one another? That'd be good, right? For that matter, why not allow each county, or better yet - restrict production to each household? Cant get much more protection than that - at what point is a tariff not a good idea, and why?

    I must say, I'm really disappointed with how many folks have just gone all in on the trump train. Especially here, of all places.
    Exactly.
    There is no spoon.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    I must say, I'm really disappointed with how many folks have just gone all in on the trump train. Especially here, of all places.
    We no longer can argue about the Austrian economy and jerk each other off.



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  11. #9
    Recently several prominent social and populist conservatives have attacked libertarianism. These conservatives, some of whom are allies in the fight against our hyper-interventionist foreign policy, blame libertarianism for a variety of social and economic ills. The conservative attack on libertarianism — like the attack on the freedom philosophy launched by leftists — is rooted in factual, economic, and philosophical errors.
    Hmmm. Did Pat Buchanan say something recently? Not many prominent conservatives have ever been allies against hyper-interventionist foreign policy.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #10
    Ron Paul does not read the RonPaulForums.

    Does he?
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  13. #11
    Who is he talking about?

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    Dr Paul is a sharp fella...

    So called supporters of the free market - they love them some protectionist tariffs by trump. Nothing like abandoning free market principles to save the free market.

    Another point that Dr Paul had made in the past - Why not have states impose tariffs on one another? That'd be good, right? For that matter, why not allow each county, or better yet - restrict production to each household? Cant get much more protection than that - at what point is a tariff not a good idea, and why?

    I must say, I'm really disappointed with how many folks have just gone all in on the trump train. Especially here, of all places.
    I agree.

    One thing of note. I don't really know how much of these articles Dr. Paul REALLY pens. We all know the history of his penmenship and him farming it out to others. When you listen to The Liberty Report and then you read one of these articles........the things peppered in these articles in no way sound completely like the musings of Dr. Paul. Sometimes I worry that his true intentions and beliefs still aren't really being vetted.
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    Dr Paul is a sharp fella...

    So called supporters of the free market - they love them some protectionist tariffs by trump. Nothing like abandoning free market principles to save the free market.

    Another point that Dr Paul had made in the past - Why not have states impose tariffs on one another? That'd be good, right? For that matter, why not allow each county, or better yet - restrict production to each household? Cant get much more protection than that - at what point is a tariff not a good idea, and why?

    I must say, I'm really disappointed with how many folks have just gone all in on the trump train. Especially here, of all places.
    Neo-bushbots are popular now, the latest craze ever since the DIck Cheney neocon revival.



    The REAL Republicans prefer Dick Cheney to Ron Paul.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    We no longer can argue about the Austrian economy and jerk each other off.
    Dont get me wrong - we should have some opposition, and we should be able to articulate our points (i.e. Zippy) I'm not advocating an echo chamber, but it's concerning as to how fickle some people are. Brothers in arms one day, and defectors another - so much so that they "shed their armor so as to conduct a more hasty retreat".

    Maybe trump marks a period of political despondence amongst our liberty community? Trump is fanning the flames of the phoenix, so to speak...accelerationists.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    Dont get me wrong - we should have some opposition, and we should be able to articulate our points (i.e. Zippy) I'm not advocating an echo chamber, but it's concerning as to how fickle some people are. Brothers in arms one day, and defectors another - so much so that they "shed their armor so as to conduct a more hasty retreat".

    Maybe trump marks a period of political despondence amongst our liberty community? Trump is fanning the flames of the phoenix, so to speak...accelerationists.
    Some opposition is ok to drum up debate. It is also good to discuss finer points concerning some of the differences we may have. But when we are no longer cohesive around the very basic of principles of liberty, more time battling each other takes place rather than coming up with ideas on how to better activate. While some preach and strive to live the very foundations of liberty, there are others who claim to be yet preach a completely different tune.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    I agree.

    One thing of note. I don't really know how much of these articles Dr. Paul REALLY pens. We all know the history of his penmenship and him farming it out to others. When you listen to The Liberty Report and then you read one of these articles........the things peppered in these articles in no way sound completely like the musings of Dr. Paul. Sometimes I worry that his true intentions and beliefs still aren't really being vetted.
    The OP article is not very focused, almost as if there was more than one writer.

    It starts out with “Recently several prominent social and populist conservatives have attacked libertarianism”. What were the attacks? Who wrote or said them?

    Mark Levin has been calling libertarian Republicans “code pink Republicans”. Although he would not be “allies in the fight against our hyper-interventionist foreign policy”, so that wouldn’t apply to him.

    Tucker Carlson likes to talk about the negatives of marijuana, is he calling for new prohibitions? He may be cheering tariffs too.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 07-15-2019 at 06:42 PM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The OP article is not very focused, almost as if there was more than one writer.

    It starts out with “Recently several prominent social and populist conservatives have attacked libertarianism”. What were the attacks? Who wrote or said them?

    Mark Levin has been calling libertarians Republicans “code pink Republicans”. Although he would not be “allies in the fight against our hyper-interventionist foreign policy”, so that wouldn’t apply to him.

    Tucker Carlson likes to talk about the negatives of marijuana, is he calling for new prohibitions? He may be cheering tariffs too.
    Tucker Carlson does seem like a good candidate for who RP has in mind here when you put the pieces of this article together. It would also help explain the lack of naming names, since he may want to respond to Tucker's anti-libertarian attacks without making it personal given their background.



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