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Thread: IL-Massive property tax increases hit Chicago home squatters

  1. #1

    Exclamation IL-Massive property tax increases hit Chicago home squatters

    Not home owners. None of us are home owners...just peasants squatting on the King's Land at the whim of the local liege-lord.



    Dramatic rise in property taxes for Cook County, Chicago’s North Side

    https://wgntv.com/2019/07/10/dramati...os-north-side/

    POSTED 11:44 AM, JULY 10, 2019, BY JULIANA TORNABENE AND MARCELLA RAYMOND, UPDATED AT 10:42AM, JULY 10, 2019

    CHICAGO — Cook County property owners are getting their latest property tax bills and that is creating some sticker shock.

    Across the county, second installment 2018 property tax bills are up an average of 4% from 2017.

    On the North Side of Chicago, homeowners could see an 11% increase in their bill, while South Side homeowners could see a 1% increase.

    These taxes are due August 1.

    David Merriman, a professor of public administration at University of Illinois at Chicago, said the property tax issue is caused by several factors. Merriman said county governments, city governments and school districts all play a part.

    Merriman said the city's taxes have gone up due to a plan that gradually increases the tax to deal with a pension problem and other fiscal problems.

    Cook County Assessor Fritz Kaegi said the change in the property tax bills is because the system was broken before he came into office.

    Merriman agrees.

    “The assessment system was out of whack in that it assessed higher value homes too low, lower value homes too high,” he said. “And that’s being with better assessment practices.”

    One Family's Story

    Attila and Candice Farberg have lived in their Wilmette home since 1984. They have seen their property taxes modestly go up 2% to 3% to 6% over the years. They’ve even gotten refunds. But they told WGN News it has never been like this.

    “The word legalized robbery comes to mind,” Attila Farberg said.

    The Farberg’s tax bill went up $5,000 to a little over $21,000 in one year.

    “The assessed value went up 30.79%” Attila Farberg said. “And the estimated market value went from $754,000 to a hair under a million.”

    They said don’t believe their house is worth a million dollars.

    The Farbergs said they want to pay their fair share but this all at once and 30% is unfair.

    Elsewhere in Cook County

    Some critics of this system have said that it unfairly taxes homeowners more than corporations. Merriman said this is not the case — businesses are valued at 25% of market values, whereas home and rental properties are valued at 10% in Cook County.

    Others have expressed concern that booming neighborhoods, like West Loop, will drive out residents with the high property taxes when they purchased the property so low. Merriman said that it is a problem for cash, but now these residents have an asset that is worth a lot more.

    On Tuesday, the Chicago Tribune reported that Chicago Cubs co-owner and Wilmette resident, Todd Ricketts, paid a property tax based on a much older and smaller house that he tore down to make a new home. This likely gave him a huge discount that may have totaled tens of thousands of dollars over the years.

    Merriman said that the Cook County Assessor's Office should not have missed this issue. He said Rickets should have filed building permits and sent them to the assessor for a reassessment. This did not happen, and it is hard to know how widespread this problem is.

    Merriman did say that the assessor's office is understaffed, and the system could probably be fairer if they had more resources to work with.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Not home owners. None of us are home owners...just peasants squatting on the King's Land at the whim of the local liege-lord.
    Yep. There's like only a handful of people left nationwide who really cares about that issue. That I know of, anyway.

    Nationalism, and all.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Yep. There's like only a handful of people left nationwide who really cares about that issue. That I know of, anyway.

    Nationalism, and all.
    How come I care about it, and I am the very textbook definition of a nationalist (even worse, a white nationalist)?

    Chicago is just the opposite, the textbook definition of diversity and multi-culti Kum By Ya-ism.

    How is importing millions more people like that, all looking to vote for more government, plush-bottom city jobs, handouts and reparations gonna make this situation better?

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Yep. There's like only a handful of people left nationwide who really cares about that issue. That I know of, anyway.

    Nationalism, and all.
    That's nonsense, Nationalism has no connection to property tax.
    I'm one of the most anti-property tax people you could ever find.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    How come I care about it, and I am the very textbook definition of a nationalist (even worse, a white nationalist)?

    Chicago is just the opposite, the textbook definition of diversity and multi-culti Kum By Ya-ism.

    How is importing millions more people like that, all looking to vote for more government, plush-bottom city jobs, handouts and reparations gonna make this situation better?
    You outta be tar'd & feathr'd!!!

    Ok, seriously, AF, I'm a little whole lot confused why you picked Anti-Federalist, the very textbook definition of nationalist that you are. What gives?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You outta be tar'd & feathr'd!!!

    Ok, seriously, AF, I'm a little whole lot confused why you picked Anti-Federalist, the very textbook definition of nationalist that you are. What gives?
    The Anti-Federalists were Nationalists, they just were Nationalists at the colonial/state level instead of the Federal level. (but they were even somewhat nationalist at the Federal level)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's nonsense, Nationalism has no connection to property tax.
    I'm one of the most anti-property tax people you could ever find.
    No, that's nonsense. You are one of the most statist people I can ever find. Who would build the schools that you graduated(?) from!
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The Anti-Federalists were Nationalists, they just were Nationalists at the colonial/state level instead of the Federal level. (but they were even somewhat nationalist at the Federal level)
    Wait...huh? Oh nevermind, I undermean what you stand.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    No, that's nonsense. You are one of the most statist people I can ever find. Who would build the schools that you graduated(?) from!
    I was homeschooled.

    And there are many other kinds of taxes that can be used to fund legitimate government functions. (which doesn't include education)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Wait...huh? Oh nevermind, I undermean what you stand.
    The only reason we think of states as a region of a country is because of the union, the word "state"=the word nation, each state was its own nation.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The only reason we think of states as a region of a country is because of the union, the word "state"=the word nation, each state was its own nation.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	oh-stop-it_o_277626.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	69.0 KB 
ID:	6638
    Is he swimming in de Nile?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    How come I care about it, and I am the very textbook definition of a nationalist (even worse, a white nationalist)?

    Chicago is just the opposite, the textbook definition of diversity and multi-culti Kum By Ya-ism.

    How is importing millions more people like that, all looking to vote for more government, plush-bottom city jobs, handouts and reparations gonna make this situation better?

    Blast from the past:


    Click image for larger version. 

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    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Blast from the past:


    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	0 
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ID:	6639

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    You keep telling me they come here and don't take welfare but that ending welfare will solve the problem.



    We have a right to keep them out and it doesn't require a police state, if we don't keep them out we will get a police state and a communist one at that.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You outta be tar'd & feathr'd!!!

    Ok, seriously, AF, I'm a little whole lot confused why you picked Anti-Federalist, the very textbook definition of nationalist that you are. What gives?
    I'm glad you asked...maybe @Ender will take a look at this as well, since he likes to poke fun at my William Wallace avatar as well.

    I don't know why though. Let's look briefly at William Wallace...what did he fight for? Cheap French goods? Hordes of Irish to work for potatoes to cut the grass at his castle?

    No, he fought for a nation of his own, to overthrow foreign invaders in defense of his home and family.

    He fought for a nation of Scots, for Scottish posterity, in a society run by Scots.

    What is so out of line with Anti Federalism?

    They believed the Constitution needed a Bill of Rights.
    They believed the Constitution created a presidency so powerful that it would become a monarchy.
    They believed the Constitution did too little with the courts and would create an out-of-control judiciary.
    They believed that the national government would be too far away from the people and thus unresponsive to the needs of localities.
    They believed the Constitution would abrogate, at least in part, the power of the states.

    This government has done every one of those things, and failed in many other regards, just like the Anti Feds predicted, not the least of which, prevent and repel invasion, which the AoC at least was very clear on THAT point.

    The Anti Feds were not opposed to state governments, they were opposed to an overpowering central government.

    But even the greatest Anti Fed of them all, Patrick Henry, saw the power in unity when opposed to tyrants:

    The distinctions between Virginians, Pennsylvanians, New Yorkers, and New Englanders are no more. I Am Not A Virginian, But An American!”
    ― Patrick Henry


    He fought for the same reason William Wallace fought, for the same reason I fight, for freedom and for a place, a nation of my own, and my posterity.

    So I don't see why my "handle" or avatar should be surprising.

  18. #16
    On the North Side of Chicago, homeowners could see an 11% increase in their bill, while South Side homeowners could see a 1% increase.

    These taxes are due August 1.

    David Merriman, a professor of public administration at University of Illinois at Chicago, said the property tax issue is caused by several factors. Merriman said county governments, city governments and school districts all play a part.

    Merriman said the city's taxes have gone up due to a plan that gradually increases the tax to deal with a pension problem and other fiscal problems.

    Cook County Assessor Fritz Kaegi said the change in the property tax bills is because the system was broken before he came into office.

    Merriman agrees.

    “The assessment system was out of whack in that it assessed higher value homes too low, lower value homes too high,” he said. “And that’s being with better assessment practices.”

    One Family's Story

    Attila and Candice Farberg have lived in their Wilmette home since 1984. They have seen their property taxes modestly go up 2% to 3% to 6% over the years. They’ve even gotten refunds. But they told WGN News it has never been like this.

    “The word legalized robbery comes to mind,” Attila Farberg said.

    The Farberg’s tax bill went up $5,000 to a little over $21,000 in one year.

    “The assessed value went up 30.79%” Attila Farberg said. “And the estimated market value went from $754,000 to a hair under a million.”

    They said don’t believe their house is worth a million dollars.

    The Farbergs said they want to pay their fair share but this all at once and 30% is unfair.

    Elsewhere in Cook County

    Some critics of this system have said that it unfairly taxes homeowners more than corporations. Merriman said this is not the case — businesses are valued at 25% of market values, whereas home and rental properties are valued at 10% in Cook County.

    Others have expressed concern that booming neighborhoods, like West Loop, will drive out residents with the high property taxes when they purchased the property so low. Merriman said that it is a problem for cash, but now these residents have an asset that is worth a lot more.

    On Tuesday, the Chicago Tribune reported that Chicago Cubs co-owner and Wilmette resident, Todd Ricketts, paid a property tax based on a much older and smaller house that he tore down to make a new home. This likely gave him a huge discount that may have totaled tens of thousands of dollars over the years.

    Merriman said that the Cook County Assessor's Office should not have missed this issue. He said Rickets should have filed building permits and sent them to the assessor for a reassessment. This did not happen, and it is hard to know how widespread this problem is.

    Merriman did say that the assessor's office is understaffed, and the system could probably be fairer if they had more resources to work with.

    Looking for a solution: Maybe everybody in that area will work to initiate ballot issue voting. That's about the only way to bring things to the forefront so that all voters will understand.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'm glad you asked...maybe @Ender will take a look at this as well, since he likes to poke fun at my William Wallace avatar as well.

    I don't know why though. Let's look briefly at William Wallace...what did he fight for? Cheap French goods? Hordes of Irish to work for potatoes to cut the grass at his castle?

    No, he fought for a nation of his own, to overthrow foreign invaders in defense of his home and family.

    He fought for a nation of Scots, for Scottish posterity, in a society run by Scots.

    What is so out of line with Anti Federalism?

    They believed the Constitution needed a Bill of Rights.
    They believed the Constitution created a presidency so powerful that it would become a monarchy.
    They believed the Constitution did too little with the courts and would create an out-of-control judiciary.
    They believed that the national government would be too far away from the people and thus unresponsive to the needs of localities.
    They believed the Constitution would abrogate, at least in part, the power of the states.

    This government has done every one of those things, and failed in many other regards, just like the Anti Feds predicted, not the least of which, prevent and repel invasion, which the AoC at least was very clear on THAT point.

    The Anti Feds were not opposed to state governments, they were opposed to an overpowering central government.

    But even the greatest Anti Fed of them all, Patrick Henry, saw the power in unity when opposed to tyrants:

    The distinctions between Virginians, Pennsylvanians, New Yorkers, and New Englanders are no more. I Am Not A Virginian, But An American!”
    ― Patrick Henry


    He fought for the same reason William Wallace fought, for the same reason I fight, for freedom and for a place, a nation of my own, and my posterity.

    So I don't see why my "handle" or avatar should be surprising.
    Leftarians are just as progressive as their totalitarian cousins, they continuously re-write history and slide every concept to its ultimate extreme in pursuit of a utopia that requires a new humanity with a changed nature.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'm glad you asked...maybe @Ender will take a look at this as well, since he likes to poke fun at my William Wallace avatar as well.

    I don't know why though. Let's look briefly at William Wallace...what did he fight for? Cheap French goods? Hordes of Irish to work for potatoes to cut the grass at his castle?

    No, he fought for a nation of his own, to overthrow foreign invaders in defense of his home and family.

    He fought for a nation of Scots, for Scottish posterity, in a society run by Scots.

    What is so out of line with Anti Federalism?

    They believed the Constitution needed a Bill of Rights.
    They believed the Constitution created a presidency so powerful that it would become a monarchy.
    They believed the Constitution did too little with the courts and would create an out-of-control judiciary.
    They believed that the national government would be too far away from the people and thus unresponsive to the needs of localities.
    They believed the Constitution would abrogate, at least in part, the power of the states.

    This government has done every one of those things, and failed in many other regards, just like the Anti Feds predicted, not the least of which, prevent and repel invasion, which the AoC at least was very clear on THAT point.

    The Anti Feds were not opposed to state governments, they were opposed to an overpowering central government.

    But even the greatest Anti Fed of them all, Patrick Henry, saw the power in unity when opposed to tyrants:

    The distinctions between Virginians, Pennsylvanians, New Yorkers, and New Englanders are no more. I Am Not A Virginian, But An American!”
    ― Patrick Henry


    He fought for the same reason William Wallace fought, for the same reason I fight, for freedom and for a place, a nation of my own, and my posterity.

    So I don't see why my "handle" or avatar should be surprising.
    I don't know. Maybe it's because instead of having the State of Texas worry about it, or individual property and business owners worry about, or local communities worry about, or counties worry about, which are ALL local solutions, you seem to fine with the FED taking control of it to solve your problem.

    Because, you like my signature so much
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I don't know. Maybe it's because instead of having the State of Texas worry about it, or individual property and business owners worry about, or local communities worry about, or counties worry about, which are ALL local solutions, you seem to fine with the FED taking control of it to solve your problem.

    Because, you like my signature so much
    Immigration IS a Federal issue as is invasion.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I don't know. Maybe it's because instead of having the State of Texas worry about it, or individual property and business owners worry about, or local communities worry about, or counties worry about, which are ALL local solutions, you seem to fine with the FED taking control of it to solve your problem.

    Because, you like my signature so much
    The FedGov should do it's job, and protect the Republic against invasion.

    That was the whole purpose of it, and more importantly, the AoC before it, which should have just remained in place, all things considered.

    To overcome, and yes, override local issues in the event of invasion.

    But, as they were in so many other cases, the Anti Feds are right once again, in predicting the failure of the central government under the CONstitution, to do it's job.

    “What then may we expect if the new constitution be adopted as it now stands? The great will struggle for power, honor and wealth; the poor become a prey to avarice, insolence and oppression. And while some are studying to supplant their neighbors, and others striving to keep their stations, one villain will wink at the oppression of another, the people be fleeced, and the public business neglected. From despotism and tyranny good Lord deliver us.” ― Anti-Federalist 12

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Leftarians are just as progressive as their totalitarian cousins, they continuously re-write history and slide every concept to its ultimate extreme in pursuit of a utopia that requires a new humanity with a changed nature.
    It is not left versus right, because all of you statists are the same. It is liberty versus tyranny, which you have no concept of.

    Remember, once pen hit the paper, that is when everything started to really run amuck. You are trying to hang on to something that has been sliding us into tyranny for well over a hundred years.

    I figure, if you are so hell bent, and AOC is so hell bent, we may as well start from scratch and work to get things right.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I don't know. Maybe it's because instead of having the State of Texas worry about it, or individual property and business owners worry about, or local communities worry about, or counties worry about, which are ALL local solutions, you seem to fine with the FED taking control of it to solve your problem.

    Because, you like my signature so much
    You are also being disingenuous, you oppose immigration control at any level.
    If we proposed to devolve immigration down to the states (which would include limiting immigration from other states) you would still screetch that we were evil NAZIs.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    It is not left versus right, because all of you statists are the same. It is liberty versus tyranny, which you have no concept of.

    Remember, once pen hit the paper, that is when everything started to really run amuck. You are trying to hang on to something that has been sliding us into tyranny for well over a hundred years.

    I figure, if you are so hell bent, and AOC is so hell bent, we may as well start from scratch and work to get things right.
    I am trying to hang onto something that has slowed the slide into tyranny to be slower than any other country on earth and reform it to reverse the slide, you are trying to tear it down and let the tyranny that has infected the rest of the world flood in.

    It is definitely left vs. right, the right recognizes that ideals must cope with reality while the left daydreams about a utopia that requires a new humanity with a changed nature.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The FedGov should do it's job, and protect the Republic against invasion.

    But, as they were in so many other cases, the Anti Feds are right once again, in predicting the failure of the central government under the CONstitution, to do it's job.

    “What then may we expect if the new constitution be adopted as it now stands? The great will struggle for power, honor and wealth; the poor become a prey to avarice, insolence and oppression. And while some are studying to supplant their neighbors, and others striving to keep their stations, one villain will wink at the oppression of another, the people be fleeced, and the public business neglected. From despotism and tyranny good Lord deliver us.” ― George Clinton, Robert Yates, Samuel Bryan, Anti-Federalist Papers
    I'm down with that. Only this time, if we are to re-write the Natural list of 10, put a clause at the end stating criminal prosecution for anybody who attempts to violate them. That is what the statists who wrote the Bill of Rights intentionally left out.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Because, you like my signature so much
    I do, very much so.

    Sadly, the vast majority of people do not.

    And, again, I fail to see how importing millions more who do not as well, will improve the situation.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I'm down with that. Only this time, if we are to re-write the Natural list of 10, put a clause at the end stating criminal prosecution for anybody who attempts to violate them. That is what the statists who wrote the Bill of Rights intentionally left out.
    Yes, I agree.

    Just like cops should be held personally liable when they beat someone down or kill them with impunity.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Blast from the past:


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    You said you do not oppose open borders IF we end the Welfare State. Emphasis on the “IF” was yours.

    So when did that change? Now you support open borders, but the welfare state has only grown much worse, with no end in sight.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I am trying to hang onto something that has slowed the slide into tyranny to be slower than any other country on earth and reform it to reverse the slide, you are trying to tear it down and let the tyranny that has infected the rest of the world flood in.

    It is definitely left vs. right, the right recognizes that ideals must cope with reality while the left daydreams about a utopia that requires a new humanity with a changed nature.
    Swordy, the problems go waaaayyyyy deeper than you are willing to admit. You can blame lefties (for watching state run TV and not told the truth), you can blame righties (for watching state run TV and not told the truth), and even the immigrants with dirt floors who probably don't even watch MSFOXNBC. The fact is, the MIC/Bankers control every aspect of our lives, and the politicians in the WH who get bought off and allow it to happen.

    There is no way in hell millions of people in this country who have mouths to feed are going to quit their jobs to slow or stop the MIC, it's contractors, manufacturing plants and programmers. The book of Revelations talks about nations coming to end, and soon enough, with or without my help, this nation will end.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    You said you do not oppose open borders IF we end the Welfare State. Emphasis on the “IF” was yours.

    So when did that change? Now you support open borders, but the welfare state has only grown much worse, with no end in sight.
    What ever gave you that impression? My position has never changed. The only reason the welfare state has grown much worse is because the folks at the FED level use it as a political tool. The politicians and the MIC will look for and create any set of circumstances necessary to profit off the taxpayer.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  34. #30
    Remember when PAF said he was leaving RPFs for good? Not a man of his word.
    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

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