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Thread: Boris Johnson demands immigrants learn English

  1. #1

    Boris Johnson demands immigrants learn English

    Boris Johnson has demanded that immigrants to the UK learn English because 'there are too many parts of the country where it is not the first language.'

    Mr Johnson made the comments while at a Tory leadership hustings in Darlington on Friday where he also said he wants immigrants 'to be and feel British'.

    He highlighted Bangladeshis and Jewish refugees as examples of how to adapt, saying they 'have made their lives and have helped to make our national culture'.

    'That's what I want for our country, I want everybody who comes here and makes their lives here to be and to feel British,' he said. 'That's the most important thing. And to learn English.

    Too often there are parts of our country and parts of London still and other cities as well where English is not spoken by some people as their first language.

    'That needs to be changed and people need to be allowed to take part in the economy and in society in the way that that shared experience would allow.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...iced-RICH.html

    Would this make you vote for him?



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  3. #2

  4. #3
    We should do the same.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    How is he going to define legislatively what counts as English?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Would this make you vote for him?
    It might not stop me from voting for him, but it would be a huge point against him.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    How is he going to define legislatively what counts as English?
    Just conduct all official interactions with those who want to stay very long in English and don't allow translators.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    It might not stop me from voting for him, but it would be a huge point against him.
    Because you are a globalist who wants to destroy western civilization and impose a one-world government, we know.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Just conduct all official interactions with those who want to stay very long in English and don't allow translators.
    How do you write a law that requires doing that without defining what counts as English?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Because you are a globalist who wants to destroy western civilization and impose a one-world government, we know.
    No.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    How do you write a law that requires doing that without defining what counts as English?
    The same way you write a law that bans theft without writing a treatise on what theft is.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    No.
    We know.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    How is he going to define legislatively what counts as English?
    The same way it is defined in law for pilots and mariners.

  16. #14

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The same way you write a law that bans theft without writing a treatise on what theft is.
    There is a body of case law and written laws that define what theft is.

    But even at that, defining what counts as a language is not the same. A language isn't something that can just be defined with a definition and some case law. It's made up of a complete vocabulary and set of grammatical rules that come in numerous dialects and variations and are constantly changing. You can't just say "English" in some law and take for granted that that settles what is meant by it. In France they take this seriously and has a still-operating nearly 400-year-old government agency responsible for dictating what proper French is.

    But that's really a naive view of how language works. All languages are constantly changing as all their users are negotiating with one another as to what the language is every time they use it with one another. One of the ways they change is by intermixing elements from other languages. In real life, what defines a language is not prescription handed down from some authoritative body, but description of what users of that language choose to do with it.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The same way it is defined in law for pilots and mariners.
    I'm not familiar with how that's done. How is it?



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    There is a body of case law and written laws that define what theft is.

    But even at that, defining what counts as a language is not the same. A language isn't something that can just be defined with a definition and some case law. It's made up of a complete vocabulary and set of grammatical rules that come in numerous dialects and variations and are constantly changing. You can't just say "English" in some law and take for granted that that settles what is meant by it. In France they take this seriously and has a still-operating nearly 400-year-old government agency responsible for dictating what proper French is.

    But that's really a naive view of how language works. All languages are constantly changing as all their users are negotiating with one another as to what the language is every time they use it with one another. One of the ways they change is by intermixing elements from other languages. In real life, what defines a language is not prescription handed down from some authoritative body, but description of what users of that language choose to do with it.
    You don't need a scientific definition, common sense is all you need.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You don't need a scientific definition, common sense is all you need.
    You might think that. But you would be wrong.

    And again, I'm not talking about a scientific definition. I'm talking about where the line is between what's English and what isn't.

    Do you have a list of allowable vocabulary like Scrabble? Are people allowed to split infinitives, end sentences with prepositions, use double-negatives, etc.? Are there going to be rules about pronunciation? I imagine that the people with thick regional accents from various parts of the UK that I can't understand without subtitles would make the cut, since their accents are used there. But what about American rednecks? Is their "English" (if it can be called that) good enough? And then there are all the multilingual people (which a lot of immigrants would be), who know and understand English fine, but who in practice when they speak to one another mix it with another language. To illustrate how fluid the boundaries between languages can be, I've read that you can travel from village to village along the Mediterranean from Spain to Italy and experience a gradual change of languages from Spanish to French to Italian without ever crossing any clear lines between one and the other.

    Do you really want government dictating to you how to speak and write, rather than leaving it up to you and other free people to figure that out for yourselves?
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 07-06-2019 at 08:03 PM.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    You might think that. But you would be wrong.

    And again, I'm not talking about a scientific definition. I'm talking about where the line is between what's English and what isn't.

    Do you have a list of allowable vocabulary like Scrabble? Are people allowed to split infinitives, end sentences with prepositions, use double-negatives, etc.? Are there going to be rules about pronunciation? I imagine that the people with thick regional accents from various parts of the UK that I can't understand without subtitles would make the cut, since their accents are used there. But what about American rednecks? Is their "English" (if it can be called that) good enough?
    You don't need to deal with that unless or until it comes up, then you use common sense.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Q: What do you call a person who speaks 3 languages?

    A: Trilingual


    Q: What do you call a person who speaks 1 language

    A: American
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You don't need to deal with that unless or until it comes up, then you use common sense.
    It comes up all the time. All those kinds of things are constant factors in all use of every human language. Whose common sense would be the authority? Would there be some regulatory body poring over recordings of interviews with immigrants where they punish the interviewer for using or allowing to be used too many words that aren't on the official list of English vocabulary, or too many grammatical violations, or on the other hand for being too strict and mistakenly excluding people whose English was good enough?

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    It comes up all the time. All those kinds of things are constant factors in all use of every human language. Whose common sense would be the authority? Would there be some regulatory body poring over recordings of interviews with immigrants where they punish the interviewer for using or allowing to be used too many words that aren't on the official list of English vocabulary, or too many grammatical violations, or on the other hand for being too strict and mistakenly excluding people whose English was good enough?
    If the person is unable to communicate with English speakers it isn't English.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If the person is unable to communicate with English speakers it isn't English.
    Is that really all you want the law to require, that a person be able to communicate with English speakers? That's a pretty low bar.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Q: What do you call a person who speaks 3 languages?

    A: Trilingual


    Q: What do you call a person who speaks 1 language

    A: American
    Here comes the America hatred peeking out from behind the facade.

    Americans don't need to speak multiple languages because we aren't surrounded by people who don't speak our language (although you would love to change that), that leaves us more time for more important things.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Is that really all you want the law to require, that a person be able to communicate with English speakers? That's a pretty low bar.
    If they can navigate the paperwork and legal proceeding required to become a citizen without a translator then they have fulfilled that requirement.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Here comes the America hatred peeking out from behind the facade.

    Americans don't need to speak multiple languages because we aren't surrounded by people who don't speak our language (although you would love to change that), that leaves us more time for more important things.
    Yes, of course. And if one is an entrepreneur traveling abroad, Americans should expect foreign countries to speak English as well. Or better yet, box Americans in and they won't have anything to worry about at all.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Yes, of course. And if one is an entrepreneur traveling abroad, Americans should expect foreign countries to speak English as well. Or better yet, box Americans in and they won't have anything to worry about at all.
    Americans have plenty of people who speak other languages and plenty of people in the world speak English.

    Give the hatred a rest or live up to your word and leave America.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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