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Thread: Hong Kong and Taiwan Are Bonding Over China

  1. #1

    Hong Kong and Taiwan Are Bonding Over China

    When Margaret Thatcher and Deng Xiaoping signed the agreement that would hand control of Hong Kong from Britain to China in 1997, East Asia was a vastly different place than it is today.The year was 1984: China was in the early days of its economic rise and was experiencing one of its most politically free periods under Communist rule; Hong Kong was the booming financial hub and crown jewel of what remained of the British Empire; and then there was Taiwan, which was nearing the end of nearly four decades of brutal martial law. At the time, if you had wagered on which of those places would be the freest 35 years later, Taiwan would have had long odds.
    Since then, China has become the world’s second-largest economy and a major military power while still spending more on domestic security, including concentration camps that perhaps hold up to 2 million Muslims in Xinjiang. Hong Kong’s relevance to China as an entrepôt—useful in the initial years following the handover—has diminished greatly, and the territory has been gripped by protests as Beijing has eroded long-held freedoms. Taiwan, which the Chinese Communist Party has vowed to bring under its control, democratized in the 1990s and has become the focus of China’s buildup.

    For most of this time, the relationship between Hong Kong and Taiwan was largely limited to trade and tourism (and given that Beijing regards Taiwan as being part of its territory, Hong Kong’s local government does not even officially recognize it). That is now changing, and ties between the two are being forged by pro-democracy activists right up to the government level.


    China’s influence over both Hong Kong and Taiwan has steadily spread from their economies into their political systems, and Beijing has promoted the “one country, two systems” model it uses to administer Hong Kong as its favored system, were Taiwan to submit to peaceful unification. But as Hong Kong’s pro-Beijing government ignores the demands of peaceful protesters, and China’s continuing encroachment on “one country, two systems” there discredits the notion that it would offer any degree of autonomy for Taiwan, demonstrators in Hong Kong are looking more and more to Taiwan, and a sense of solidarity is growing between the two. That is likely to be a major source of concern for Beijing (and, indeed, Chinese state media have warned the two sides against cooperating).
    While top officials in Hong Kong appear to be ignoring the concerns of protesters there, senior leaders in Taiwan are speaking up for the demonstrators. Taiwan’s foreign minister, Joseph Wu, told a gathering of politicians, business executives, and journalists at the Copenhagen Democracy Summit last month about Hong Kong’s worsening political situation since it was handed over to China. Hong Kongers had been denied full democratic rights, some of its elected legislators had been removed for political reasons, and journalistic freedoms were being eroded, Wu noted. Putting the blame squarely on Beijing, he expressed his support for the vast numbers who have taken to Hong Kong’s streets to push back against a controversial extradition bill.
    “These two outposts of democracy share the same values, and our paths and destinies are closely linked,” Wu said of Hong Kong and Taiwan. “We both stand on the front line against the expansion of authoritarianism.”
    “Taiwan needs to hold firm and succeed so that people in Hong Kong and beyond can still see the beacon light of hope,” he added. “We also know that if we fall, others may soon follow.”
    Wu’s remarks came amid a series of events, rallies, and meetings here in Taipei and in Hong Kong evincing the strengthening bonds between the two. At a grassroots level, Taiwanese Facebook users were switching their avatars to a blackened Hong Kong flag while organizing events around the country to show support and raise awareness of Hong Kong’s plight. On June 16, a march in Taipei drew 10,000 participants, according to organizers. At the Golden Melody Awards here—effectively the Grammys for countries that speak Chinese languages—the Hong Kong musician and activist Denise Ho thanked Taiwan for its support, while a group of artists from Hong Kong recently recorded a solidarity anthem, sung in Mandarin and Cantonese, the dominant languages in Taiwan and Hong Kong, respectively.

    Even at the highest levels, Taiwan has helped derail the extradition bill, which would enable Hong Kong to extradite criminal suspects to China, Taiwan, or the former Portuguese colony of Macau.

    The legislation was initially proposed after the February 2018 murder of a Hong Kong woman, Poon Hiu-wing, by her boyfriend, Chan Tong-kai, also a Hong Kong resident, while the couple were on vacation in Taiwan. Chan fled back to Hong Kong and has not been prosecuted, but Carrie Lam, Hong Kong’s chief executive, argued that an extradition bill would enable his transfer to Taiwan so that he would be subject to its courts. Taiwan’s government, however, said that it would not prosecute him even if the bill was passed, giving succor to critics who see the bill as a Trojan horse that would facilitate the disappearance of anyone Beijing wished.

    Tsai Ing-wen, Taiwan’s president, opposes unification with China, but troublingly for the Communist Party, events in Hong Kong have even forced prominent members of the Beijing-friendly opposition party, the Kuomintang, to distance themselves from their giant neighbor. Han Kuo-yu, China’s favored candidate in this month’s primary to become the Kuomintang challenger to Tsai in elections next year, said that if he’s elected, the Hong Kong model would come to Taiwan “over my dead body.” “The political elite in Taiwan are watching the events in Hong Kong closely,” said Lauren Dickey, a China analyst at CNA, an Arlington, Virginia–based research firm.

    More at: https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...rowing/593347/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

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    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

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  3. #2
    Sometimes I think there's only 2 things preventing a war between the superpowers atm and that's a big ass ocean and nukes.
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior_of_Freedom View Post
    Sometimes I think there's only 2 things preventing a war between the superpowers atm and that's a big ass ocean and nukes.
    There are NGOs like NED whom are provided funding for such protest movements in both Hong Kong and Taiwan. There are some crazy Chinese in Hong Kong who themselves don't see as Chinese but British.

    But this could only resulted in a massive propaganda campaign of false promises.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    There are NGOs like NED whom are provided funding for such protest movements in both Hong Kong and Taiwan. There are some crazy Chinese in Hong Kong who themselves don't see as Chinese but British.

    But this could only resulted in a massive propaganda campaign of false promises.
    I'm talking about China mainly
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  6. #5
    Taiwan has been strongly supportive of the Hong Kong protest movement, and Hong Kongers appear to be returning the favor with surging support for Taiwanese independence.

    According to a new survey, support for the independence of Taiwan has reached levels in Hong Kong not seen since 1993.
    The survey taken by the Hong Kong Public Opinion Research Institute (PORI) found 43.7 percent of Hong Kong respondents support independence for Taiwan, up from 35 percent at the beginning of the year.
    Hong Kongers favored Taiwan participating in the United Nations and various international organizations by 57.2 percent, a policy viciously opposed by China because it confers the legitimacy of an independent nation-state upon Taiwan. This level of support was up slightly from the beginning of the year, but down slightly from its recent peak in August 2018.
    Quartz noted on Wednesday that the growing sense of solidarity between Hong Kong demonstrators and the Taiwanese is natural since the Taiwanese have long pointed to Hong Kong’s deteriorating autonomy as evidence they should not accept a similar assimilation arrangement with mainland China.
    The same threats to Hong Kong’s autonomy drive the growing support of city residents for Taiwanese defiance of China. Some Hong Kong protesters display signs that warn the Taiwanese not to vote for the more pro-China Kuomintang party and risk coming more firmly under Beijing’s control.

    More at: https://www.breitbart.com/national-s...fter-protests/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    It seems Taiwan and Hong Kong don't mind becoming the next Kosovo agaisnt China or becoming puppets to Britain seeing how protestors in Hong Kong are waving British imperialist flags.
    Go figure that kinda exposed on what their stance is. You arent independent if you become puppet to someone else.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    It seems Taiwan and Hong Kong don't mind becoming the next Kosovo agaisnt China or becoming puppets to Britain seeing how protestors in Hong Kong are waving British imperialist flags.
    Go figure that kinda exposed on what their stance is. You arent independent if you become puppet to someone else.
    Better the English than China.

    They don't exactly have much choice, China could crush them like bugs if the tried for full independence.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Better the English than China.

    They don't exactly have much choice, China could crush them like bugs if the tried for full independence.
    Exactly what I was thinking , Sicilian Mob or MS 13 , probably go with the Sicilians.
    Seriously , though,
    Britain has really gone to the dogs, but the last thing I would want to accept , is Chinese rule.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Exactly what I was thinking , Sicilian Mob or MS 13 , probably go with the Sicilians.
    Seriously , though,
    Britain has really gone to the dogs, but the last thing I would want to accept , is Chinese rule.
    Too many libertarians are enamored of anything that threatens the current order but liking China is a case of jumping out of the frying pa into the fire.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen said she would follow "humanitarian principles" in dealing with asylum seekers from Hong Kong, which has been roiled by pro-democracy protests.Tsai made the comments after Radio Free Asia reported that more than a dozen protesters from Hong Kong have fled to Taiwan.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/taiwan-says-t...105353320.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Taiwan's foreign minister on Monday called for "genuine" democratic elections to be held in Hong Kong after the city was rocked by fresh political violence, comments that will likely infuriate Beijing.

    In a tweet on Monday Taiwan's foreign minister Joseph Wu said it was time for the city's leaders to grant universal suffrage, a core demand of protesters.
    "It's sad to see the rule of law eroding and the divide between the people and the government widening in HongKong," Wu said as he accompanied President Tsai Ing-wen in a stopover in Denver on their way back from a visit to diplomatic allies in the Caribbean.
    "The way forward is genuine democratic elections, not violence in the streets & MTR stations. The freedom and human rights of the people must be protected!" he added.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/taiwan-foreig...040554269.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Banned Adjuntas, Puerto Rico



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    Foreign Minister Jaushieh Joseph Wu gave a speech on June 27 at the Copenhagen Democracy Summit 2019 (CDS2019), organized by the nonprofit Alliance of Democracies.

    The former Danish Prime Minister, former secretary of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and the main organizer of the CDS, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who invited Wu to this summit, published a photo of the two in his account on June 27 Twitter and said he was honored to welcome Taiwan's Foreign Minister.

    For his part, Minister Wu tweeted on June 29 that "it is an honor to be invited to give a speech at the CDS2019 in order to talk about Taiwan's efforts to promote democracy and a rules-based order." Wu also said in the tweet that Taiwan is fully committed to the cause of democracy and that this country can be counted as a firm partner on the road to the future.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    In a tweet on Monday Taiwan's foreign minister Joseph Wu said it was time for the city's leaders to grant universal suffrage, a core demand of protesters.
    Yeah, that will solve all of their problems.
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  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Yeah, that will solve all of their problems.
    I guess Taiawn and Hong Kong dont mind being puppets or having American bases in their countries while imagining that the British imperialist empire is still around?
    Some of those protesters demands are rather comical to say the least.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    I guess Taiawn and Hong Kong dont mind being puppets or having American bases in their countries while imagining that the British imperialist empire is still around?
    Some of those protesters demands are rather comical to say the least.
    I guess they prefer that to being run by the ChiComs in an absolute authoritarian dictatorship which is implementing the Mark of the Beast.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I guess they prefer that to being run by the ChiComs in an absolute authoritarian dictatorship which is implementing the Mark of the Beast.
    The Westerns arent any better nor different with fake freedom.Also America would love another Kosovo style which is exctly what HK, Taiwan are acting to be.

    Lets not forget Kosovo is a failed, mafia state i guess they don't mind becoming that either.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    The Westerns arent any better nor different with fake freedom.Also America would love another Kosovo style which is exctly what HK, Taiwan are acting to be.

    Lets not forget Kosovo is a failed, mafia state i guess they don't mind becoming that either.
    China is much worse and when they take over HK completely they will do a super crackdown to break them and reduce them to submission.

    HK is absolutely right in this case, they are already much worse off than when they were under the brits.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    China is much worse and when they take over HK completely they will do a super crackdown to break them and reduce them to submission.

    HK is absolutely right in this case, they are already much worse off than when they were under the brits.
    Your forgetting many in the west are already pushing Chinese like polices. While pretending to be democratic. The EU is such a great example of that. Along with Britain.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Your forgetting many in the west are already pushing Chinese like polices. While pretending to be democratic. The EU is such a great example of that. Along with Britain.
    I'm not forgetting that.

    China is farther ahead and they aren't standing still.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Ben Norton on HK.

    As if we needed the symbolism of the US-funded anti-China campaign in Hong Kong to be more blatant, protesters are not only waving US flags; they're now loudly singing the US national anthem on megaphones

    This is an Eastern Europe-style "color revolution"

    Such a color revolution will fail. And it seems these young university students have taken pointers from their hero Sen John McCain. "Arab Spring in China"

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    China has become the world’s second-largest economy and a major military power while still spending more on domestic security, including concentration camps that perhaps hold up to 2 million Muslims in Xinjiang.

    Wtfsicle
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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    It seems Taiwan and Hong Kong don't mind becoming the next Kosovo agaisnt China or becoming puppets to Britain seeing how protestors in Hong Kong are waving British imperialist flags.
    Go figure that kinda exposed on what their stance is. You arent independent if you become puppet to someone else.

    You may not like that HK prefer to be British than Chinese but British rule over HK is what made them often in the top 3 rankings of freest economies in the world.

    HK gave us Jackie Chan. Speaking of which, I wonder if he has been in hiding ever since the protests erupted. He's been firmly in the pocket of the CCP for the last decade or so but is the pride of HK. We certainly live in interesting times.
    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    You may not like that HK prefer to be British than Chinese but British rule over HK is what made them often in the top 3 rankings of freest economies in the world.

    HK gave us Jackie Chan. Speaking of which, I wonder if he has been in hiding ever since the protests erupted. He's been firmly in the pocket of the CCP for the last decade or so but is the pride of HK. We certainly live in interesting times.
    HK is still part of China and that is something America nor Britain cant take away. This would be like the Russians telling you Americans to giveup southern states for Mexico. Under the claims of self Independence.

    America and Britain would love to retake over in HK and Taiwan just so they could build military bases so they could be near china, do you think that the Chinese are that foolish and don't what America and UK are planning?


    America/NATO wanted a naval base in Crimea. Why do you think they are still not over what happened in Crimea? they lost a major sea port.
    Last edited by AngryCanadian; 08-12-2019 at 09:10 PM.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    HK is still part of China and that is something America nor Britain cant take away. This would be like the Russians telling you Americans to giveup southern states for Mexico. Under the claims of self Independence.

    America and Britain would love to retake over in HK and Taiwan just so they could build military bases so they could be near china, do you think that the Chinese are that foolish and don't what America and UK are planning?


    America/NATO wanted a naval base in Crimea. Why do you think they are still not over what happened in Crimea? they lost a major sea port.
    Liberty lovers should support any society that wants to split from an authoritarian regime, we shouldn't interfere as a nation but supporting the ChiComs is unthinkable in this case.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    America/NATO wanted a naval base in Crimea. Why do you think they are still not over what happened in Crimea? they lost a major sea port.
    So you support Crimea's right to leave Ukraine but not Hong Kong's right to leave China?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty lovers should support any society that wants to split from an authoritarian regime, we shouldn't interfere as a nation but supporting the ChiComs is unthinkable in this case.
    By your same logic would you say that for those seeking self Independence in America? even when America itself is not an authoritarian regime?

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    So you support Crimea's right to leave Ukraine but not Hong Kong's right to leave China?
    Crimea's right to leave Ukraine was voted on a ballot. A result which Western countries aligned with NATO didn't like, the same can not be said about Hong Kong. When considering you have many NGOs operating in HK who are pushing to leave. The same NGOs behind the protests in Moscow.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    By your same logic would you say that for those seeking self Independence in America? even when America itself is not an authoritarian regime?
    I support the right to secede, there may be a lower limit to the size of a seceding area but that is a different matter.
    And America may not quite be an authoritarian regime but it is too close to being one if it isn't.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty lovers should support any society that wants to split from an authoritarian regime, we shouldn't interfere as a nation but supporting the ChiComs is unthinkable in this case.
    but supporting the ChiComs is unthinkable in this case.
    Because China has no rights to defend her own borders and territories? America shouldn't be meddling in Asia nor in HK. America already did enough harm by its regime changes and this in HK is another regime change which i am rather find it hilarious to see some on ronpaulforums defending a regime change and obvious color revolution.


  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Crimea's right to leave Ukraine was voted on a ballot. A result which Western countries aligned with NATO didn't like, the same can not be said about Hong Kong. When considering you have many NGOs operating in HK who are pushing to leave. The same NGOs behind the protests in Moscow.
    China would not allow such a vote.
    What do you do when such a vote isn't allowed?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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