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Thread: Justin Amash is the anti-Ron Paul

  1. #1

    Justin Amash is the anti-Ron Paul

    He’s teaching libertarians how to lose
    https://spectator.us/justin-amash-anti-ron-paul/
    What Ron Paul did was to counteract neoconservatism in the Republican party with libertarianism and populism. Populism proved to be more potent, but libertarianism itself contributed important elements to populism, including an articulate anti-interventionist foreign policy and a sense of class warfare as about power, not just wealth. Amash was never comfortable with populism, but libertarianism without it has no market at all. The Washington Post and the NeverTrump neocons share Amash’s animosity toward Trump and the populist right, but they share even fewer of his professed principles than Trump does. Ron Paul won despite losing; Amash teaches libertarians simply how to lose by losing.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    He’s teaching libertarians how to lose
    Bull$#@!..

    Read Ron Paul's Letter of Resignation..
    because of the Reagan years.

    there is nothing Republican about the Republican Party..

    They just Elected a Lifetime Democrat who Bought the "R" Ticket on a whim.

    seriously

    unbunch your panties
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Read Ron Paul's Letter of Resignation..
    because of the Reagan years.

    there is nothing Republican about the Republican Party..
    That's exactly what I was thinking. Here's a portion of Ron's resignation letter:

    I want to totally disassociate myself from the policies that have given us unprecedented deficits, massive monetary inflation, indiscriminate military spending, an irrational and unconstitutional foreign policy, zooming foreign aid, the exaltation of international banking, and the attack on our personal liberties and privacy.

    After years of trying to work through the Republican Party both in and out of government, I have reluctantly concluded that my efforts must be carried on outside the Republican Party. Republicans know that the Democratic agenda is dangerous to our political and economic health. Yet, in the past six years Republicans have expanded its worst aspects and called them our own. The Republican Party has not reduced the size of government. It has become big government's best friend.

    If Ronald Reagan couldn't or wouldn't balance the budget, which Republican leader on the horizon can we possibly expect to do so? There is no credibility left for the Republican Party as a force to reduce the size of government. That is the message of the Reagan years.

    I conclude that one must look to other avenues if a successful effort is ever to be achieved in reversing America's direction.

    I therefore resign my membership in the Republican Party and enclose my membership card.
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Bull$#@!..

    Read Ron Paul's Letter of Resignation..
    because of the Reagan years.

    there is nothing Republican about the Republican Party..

    They just Elected a Lifetime Democrat who Bought the "R" Ticket on a whim.

    seriously

    unbunch your panties
    he speaks sooth...

    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Bull$#@!..

    Read Ron Paul's Letter of Resignation..
    because of the Reagan years.

    there is nothing Republican about the Republican Party..

    They just Elected a Lifetime Democrat who Bought the "R" Ticket on a whim.

    seriously

    unbunch your panties
    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    That's exactly what I was thinking. Here's a portion of Ron's resignation letter:
    I'm sure you're not intentionally trying to be omissive, but you just quoted the 1987 resignation letter.

    You know he ran again as a Republican for president in 2008? Then again in 2012? At some point he also gave advice on running with the party that you think will give you the best chance to win, that it really didn't matter which party you run in.

    Now, does that mean Ron believes that the Republican leadership/establishment has the best interests of the party's platform at heart? I would wager to say with what he's seen and suffered, absolutely not.

    But clearly he saw some value in reaching out to a pool of voters that generally (meaning not 100%, but not 0% either) agree with him on limiting the size and scope of government.

    I have one plea to the members of this forum: that we start putting value in being strategic as we are philosophic, heck, even a 45% strategic/55% philosophic split. Some of us would like liberty in our own lifetimes, or at the very least, some progress along the path that our children might pick up the torch and press on with. Sure, it's great to be right all the time, but even better to be right and have some semblance of a plan to win.

    Edit: Was trying to find out where I heard that, it wasn't Ron Paul but one of his colleagues that he was quoting 'run in the party where you think you can win':
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 07-05-2019 at 11:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I'm sure you're not intentionally trying to be omissive, but you just quoted the 1987 resignation letter.

    You know he ran again as a Republican in 2008? Then again in 2012? At some point he also gave advice on running with the party that you think will give you the best chance to win, that it really didn't matter which party you run in.

    Now, does that mean he believes that the Republican leadership/establishment has the best interests of the party's platform at heart? I would wager to say with what he's seen and suffered, absolutely not.

    But clearly he saw some value in reaching out to a pool of voters that generally (meaning not 100%, but not 0% either) agree with him on limiting the size and scope of government.
    I didn't know that....thank you. Now I truly see that Amash is the Anti Ron Paul Christ.
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    He’s teaching libertarians how to lose
    https://spectator.us/justin-amash-anti-ron-paul/
    I think populism is what Amash was lacking. Other than being wrong, the impeachment of Trump was not popular. So here comes Justin Amash promoting this very unpopular stance and him believing that something good would have come from it. I was still sort of a liberal during the 2008 campaign and listening to Ron Paul mix his libertarian policies with populist ones is what sold me to his message. Amash just picked the worst issue to make a stance on and it seems like he is going to pay dearly for it.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    I didn't know that....thank you. Now I truly see that Amash is the Anti Ron Paul Christ.
    To be fair, he's going overboard with the sub-title. I could point out a critical flaw but it would piss off a lot of (L)ibertarians here, especially since the Libertarian party was around before Amash started any teaching lessons.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 07-05-2019 at 11:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men



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  11. #9
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    After Ron Paul quit the Republican party in 1985, he came back to it years later. When he returned to Congress as a Republican in 1996, it was because he saw that the best path forward was through the GOP and not the Libertarian party.

    In 2007 Dr. Paul and his campaign asked libertarians like myself to join the GOP. While I was reluctant to do this, I realized he was older and wiser and it made sense.

    I think it is quite obvious that the Libertarian party will not be able to compete with the Republican and Democrat parties.

    I also think that in the last 12 years, we have seen the GOP move away from the neocon persuasion and more toward libertarian positions.

    As flawed as the GOP is, it is the best path forward. My view is that we should continue the effort that was started in 2007 and do our best to promote liberty through the GOP. That makes a ton more sense that aligning with the Democratic Socialist party. There is no other viable choice.

    Amash has lost his way and I wish him well in his future endeavors. He apparently still needs to learn what Ron Paul did from 1985 to 1995.
    Citizen of Arizona
    @cleaner4d4

    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  12. #10
    At this rate, Justin will be a political household name. I hope he keeps it up. I definitely sense a larger plan here. What it is remains to be seen but name recognition is 75% of electoral politics and he's getting that in spades, with the help of the Trumpkins.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    At this rate, Justin will be a political household name. I hope he keeps it up. I definitely sense a larger plan here. What it is remains to be seen but name recognition is 75% of electoral politics and he's getting that in spades, with the help of the Trumpkins.
    The anti establishment politician is always going to get press, the left media and Bill Kristol have given him more press and elevation than all of the Trump people combined.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    To be fair, he's going overboard with the sub-title. I could point out a critical flaw but it would piss off a lot of (L)ibertarians here, especially since the Libertarian party was around before Amash started any teaching lessons.
    I am not a Party Flaggot.

    I could care less at this point.. The Republican Party and VOTERS elected a lifelong Democrat.. Who initially jokeed about the idea and then went FULL Clown and Bought the Republican Election..

    and I met several Oregon Democrats that were voting FOR him. (Could not stand Hillary)

    Both McCain and Hillary are behind the growth or the "alt -right',, and even imported Ukrainian Nazis to Train (proud skinheads and others)

    so get off the partisan and divisive bull$#@! you are being fed by Q
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I am not a Party Flaggot.

    I could care less at this point.. The Republican Party and VOTERS elected a lifelong Democrat.. Who initially jokeed about the idea and then went FULL Clown and Bought the Republican Election..

    and I met several Oregon Democrats that were voting FOR him. (Could not stand Hillary)

    Both McCain and Hillary are behind the growth or the "alt -right',, and even imported Ukrainian Nazis to Train (proud skinheads and others)

    so get off the partisan and divisive bull$#@! you are being fed by Q
    Woke politics and woke capitalism and the me2 movement means that they can get you to do whatever they want. They are attacking us from all angles and you cant take a position without it being one of theirs. The only true independent people are the ones who can't be bought, and they are hated by all sides of this firing squad.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I am not a Party Flaggot.

    I could care less at this point.. The Republican Party and VOTERS elected a lifelong Democrat.. Who initially jokeed about the idea and then went FULL Clown and Bought the Republican Election..

    and I met several Oregon Democrats that were voting FOR him. (Could not stand Hillary)

    Both McCain and Hillary are behind the growth or the "alt -right',, and even imported Ukrainian Nazis to Train (proud skinheads and others)

    so get off the partisan and divisive bull$#@! you are being fed by Q
    Can you prove to me that the libertarians have a plan to actually win? Been around since 1971 and they're just waiting for the right moment to win an election, perhaps?

    I'm not sorry what I say stings your senses. I'm glad it irritates; I just wish that anger could be harnessed and put towards some sort of—I don't know—motivation. You guys seem to think there's some sort of easy button to press and everyone just gets pissed off at the world, joins your cause, and you start slamming political opponents to the side as you blaze a trail to victory. Well, give me about a minute or so to microwave the popcorn.

    It took Ron Paul from 1987 to 1996 to realize that 3rd parties were a dead-end. Most of us have been on these forums for at least that long. For those who can put down emotion and pick up reasoning skills, realize that he saved us a lot of time and frustration by coming to that conclusion. I know it's easy to get discouraged and want to throw in the towel at the first sign of trouble, but continuing to splinter off into smaller and smaller politically incompetent groups is ABSOLUTELY NOT going to get you any changes, politically.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 07-05-2019 at 12:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Bull$#@!..

    Read Ron Paul's Letter of Resignation..
    because of the Reagan years.

    there is nothing Republican about the Republican Party..

    They just Elected a Lifetime Democrat who Bought the "R" Ticket on a whim.

    seriously

    unbunch your panties
    fyi - "He’s teaching libertarians how to lose", was the subtitle from the article, not my quote. No difference though since I agree with the author. I would add what is implied that you cannot change the country out of office or from a fringe out of power party. Ron understood this and worked with the party, Rand understands this as well.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    It took Ron Paul from 1987 to 1996 to realize that 3rd parties were a dead-end.
    And we can't let Amash have time to figure it out without burning him to a crisp so that he never wants to return?

    It's a good thing all of us conservatives weren't on Twitter back in the 80s to call RP a total loser.
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Can you prove to me that the libertarians have a plan to actually win?
    "win"what exactly??

    and I have no idea what a political party is thinking. (can a "party" think?).. I do NOT Belong to any Political Parties..

    I prefer a better variety of drunks.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I have one plea to the members of this forum: that we start putting value in being strategic as we are philosophic, heck, even a 45% strategic/55% philosophic split. Some of us would like liberty in our own lifetimes, or at the very least, some progress along the path that our children might pick up the torch and press on with. Sure, it's great to be right all the time, but even better to be right and have some semblance of a plan to win.
    Ex 1. Trump says the govt is shut down until I get wall in budget. A month later Trump approves budget with no wall funds.

    Ex 2. Trump says I'm leaving Syria asap. Retracts/qualifies statement, and 6 months later still in Syria

    Ex. 3 Trump campaigns on Afgh/Iraq being mistakes. Appoints John Bolton...

    I could go on, but these are examples of Trump's 45% pragmatism 55% idealism, and the majority of everyone here (maybe not Swordsmyth) has been pissed when he's done it.

    Ex 4. Iran downs drone, Trump does not retaliate with force even though it was advised.

    Trump possibly went 100% idealism with that. Everyone loved it.
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Rand understands this as well.
    Rand likes Drones for Police,, and Million Dollar Hoaxes for Israel.

    I could care less what he thinks. he lost my confidence years ago.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Rand likes Drones for Police,, and Million Dollar Hoaxes for Israel.

    I could care less what he thinks. he lost my confidence years ago.
    You don't have to care if you don't want to, just know that he cares. He could make a lot better money and have less people shooting at him and breaking his ribs if he wasn't trying to protect your rights.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    You don't have to care if you don't want to, just know that he cares. He could make a lot better money and have less people shooting at him and breaking his ribs if he wasn't trying to protect your rights.
    PHUCK YOU

    He has done nothing to secure or RETURN my Rights.

    and I could care less how much "money" he makes... I have more Respect for an Honest Whore.
    She at least Earns it.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    PHUCK YOU

    He has done nothing to secure or RETURN my Rights.

    and I could care less how much "money" he makes... I have more Respect for an Honest Whore.
    She at least Earns it.
    No one person can return your rights, it takes the power of ideas and majority to take anything back.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    PHUCK YOU

    He has done nothing to secure or RETURN my Rights.

    and I could care less how much "money" he makes... I have more Respect for an Honest Whore.
    She at least Earns it.
    I believe I haven't touched the neg rep button in years.

    *blows the dust off*

    Click.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I believe I haven't touched the neg rep button in years.

    *blows the dust off*

    Click.
    In defensee of Pc, the strategy of nonviolent direct action when you actually think about it is completely insane.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    In defensee of Pc, the strategy of nonviolent direct action when you actually think about is completely insane.
    His strategy is one of passive-aggressive inaction and b*tching about everything, which when you actually think about it is completely useless.

    There's only two ways we're getting freedom back in this country. I seriously doubt that if anyone can't be bothered to at least attempt the one we're trying now, then there's no way in hell they're gonna be willing to try the second.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 07-05-2019 at 02:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    His strategy is one of passive-aggressive inaction and b*tching about everything, which when you actually think about it is completely useless.
    I was talking about Rand. LOL. You think sane people do stuff that gets them shot at and their ribs broken?

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    I was talking about Rand. LOL. You think sane people do stuff that gets them shot at and their ribs broken?
    I know, but if you think Rand was insane for that, then there is no word left to describe the guy who attacked him. Then again sanity is a completely subjective term these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    PHUCK YOU

    He has done nothing to secure or RETURN my Rights.

    and I could care less how much "money" he makes... I have more Respect for an Honest Whore.
    She at least Earns it.


    I wonder if the remaining 48,731 posts you've made over the years are of equally stellar value as this one.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I know, but if you think Rand was insane for that, then there is no word left to describe the guy who attacked him. Then again sanity is a completely subjective term these days.
    The guy that attacked him was being controlled. They try to control us all because they get off on it.

  34. #30

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