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Thread: Justin Amash is the anti-Ron Paul

  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I am not talking about a positive right to labor, no such thing exists, I am talking about every man's right to an honest marketplace, you don't have a right to accept stolen goods or collaborate with an enemy that is waging warfare on your country.

    You are taking the side of communists and criminals and then claiming that the "cops" are evil tyrants.
    If I want/need a pair of shoes, and somebody else wants/needs a wooden chair, I and the other person are either free to exchange, or simply walk away. It is when other people like you/government who are not part of that private contract who interfere with my right to choose.

    Conversely, if an Australian person produces something, and an American produces something, it is up to me who I wish to exchange with. If I want something el' cheapo, and save the rest of my money for another exchange (something that I need or want), it is within my right to do so. If I find that the higher price thingamajig is to my liking and not have money left over for another thingamajig, that is also my right to do so.

    Your way robs me of that right.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”



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  3. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    If I want/need a pair of shoes, and somebody else wants/needs a wooden chair, I and the other person are either free to exchange, or simply walk away. It is when other people like you/government who are not part of that private contract who interfere with my right to choose.

    Conversely, if an Australian person produces something, and an American produces something, it is up to me who I wish to exchange with. If I want something el' cheapo, and save the rest of my money for another exchange (something that I need or want), it is within my right to do so. If I find that the higher price thingamajig is to my liking and not have money left over for another thingamajig, that is also my right to do so.

    Your way robs me of that right.
    You can't just ignore foreign government intervention, you are advocating for government intervention in the marketplace.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You can't just ignore foreign government intervention, you are advocating for government intervention in the marketplace.
    LOL we have been over and over this. I am not advocating for any government intervention. But in the case of this and other governments, two wrongs do not make a right. I will do whatever I need to do to maximize my own liberty, whether that means protecting myself from eminent domain, exchanging good and services for what I deem best for me and/or to maximize my personal savings for a rainy day, or J-walking across the street if/when I know I can get away with it so that I am not late for work, or a dozen hot-wings extra crispy.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  5. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    LOL we have been over and over this. I am not advocating for any government intervention. But in the case of this and other governments, two wrongs do not make a right. I will do whatever I need to do to maximize my own liberty, whether that means protecting myself from eminent domain, exchanging good and services for what I deem best for me and/or to maximize my personal savings for a rainy day, or J-walking across the street if/when I know I can get away with it so that I am not late for work, or a dozen hot-wings extra crispy.
    It's not wrong to cancel out their intervention, it is right.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by chudrockz View Post
    Excellent comic...you make my point better than I can.

    And what happened those natives?

    They ended up second class citizens, deposed of their lands, traditions and customs, and thrown on squalid reservations to have their sons become wards of the state, after being ethnically cleansed in a genocidal pogrom.

    That's not the future I want for my sons, not the future I want for my posterity and certainly not the future I'm willing to accept for a cheap roof.

  7. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's not wrong to cancel out their intervention, it is right.
    SwordSmyth, for the umpteenth time, please go HERE

    As I have told you repeatedly in the past, you either understand liberty from within, or you do not. You are the latter. Because, well, you know why, so please do not make me say it again.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”



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  9. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    SwordSmyth, for the umpteenth time, please go HERE

    As I have told you repeatedly in the past, you either understand liberty from within, or you do not. You are the latter. Because, well, you know why, so please do not make me say it again.
    That doesn't say what you think it says.

    Liberty is composed of restrictions on tyrants, you want to prohibit the restriction of tyrants, that make you an enemy of liberty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Excellent comic...you make my point better than I can.

    And what happened those natives?

    They ended up second class citizens, deposed of their lands, traditions and customs, and thrown on squalid reservations to have their sons become wards of the state, after being ethnically cleansed in a genocidal pogrom.

    That's not the future I want for my sons, not the future I want for my posterity and certainly not the future I'm willing to accept for a cheap roof.
    Seems Oyarde has done well with his assimilation.
    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  11. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are taking the side of the enemy of freedom, I don't have to leave people alone who help violate my rights.
    kcchiefs just wants you and your family to suffer. It's why he buys his plastic lawn chairs from China instead of America.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  12. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    kcchiefs just wants you and your family to suffer. It's why he buys his plastic lawn chairs from China instead of America.
    He just wants to save a buck even if it costs us all our liberty.

    Trading his birthright for a mess of pottage, his kind have been the bane of liberty throughout history, tyrants couldn't succeed without them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He just wants to save a buck even if it costs us all our liberty.

    Trading his birthright for a mess of pottage, his kind have been the bane of liberty throughout history, tyrants couldn't succeed without them.
    I'm pretty sure that's how the Roman Empire fell. Plastic lawn-chair market manipulation.

    If only they had known to put up tariffs back then maybe they'd still be around.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  14. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Excellent comic...you make my point better than I can.

    And what happened those natives?

    They ended up second class citizens, deposed of their lands, traditions and customs, and thrown on squalid reservations to have their sons become wards of the state, after being ethnically cleansed in a genocidal pogrom.

    That's not the future I want for my sons, not the future I want for my posterity and certainly not the future I'm willing to accept for a cheap roof.

    Perhaps the Indians, like you and SwordSmyth, should have paid much more attention to my Signature. History does have a way of repeating itself.

    ____


    Stuart Banner, a law professor, does not deny that between the early 17th century and the end of the 19th, nearly the entire land area of the United States was transferred from Indian to non-Indian ownership. But in How the Indians Lost Their Land, he offers an avowedly revisionist account of the way this happened. Previous scholars, he claims, have overemphasized the direct seizure of Indian land, failing to recognize that the process of acquisition proceeded mainly through legal forms: namely, purchase by individuals, groups or governments, and the signing of treaties between Indians and the United States. Banner criticizes traditional accounts for denying that Indians had their own concept of private property and were tricked into selling land, and for maintaining that whites believed the native inhabitants had no real claim to land ownership. Actually, Banner insists, there were strong reasons to purchase the land and not simply to seize it. The early settlers lacked the power to dispossess the Indian population, and throughout the colonial era, with the French competing with the English for Indian loyalty, wholesale expropriation would have been politically counterproductive.

    Indeed, Banner argues, colonial governments and authorities in London generally tried to prevent settler intrusion onto Indian land before it had been purchased. This policy culminated in the Proclamation of 1763, which declared the entire continent west of the Appalachian mountains off-limits to white settlers. Of course, settlers ignored the Proclamation, as did land speculators like George Washington, who instructed his agents to buy as much Indian land in the west as possible while keeping ‘this whole matter a profound secret’ because of its illegality. But Banner’s point is that government officials were committed to dealing with Indians in a legal, orderly manner. Even speculators like Washington paid Indians for their land.


    https://www.amazon.com/How-Indians-L.../dp/067402396X
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  15. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    kcchiefs just wants you and your family to suffer. It's why he buys his plastic lawn chairs from China instead of America.
    I wonder, how many more babies Section 8 will want to have, once those cheap items down at Wal-Mart aren't available anymore. Maybe Swordy will volunteer his services. You know, to help save our freedoms.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  16. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chudrockz View Post
    Excellent comic...you make my point better than I can.

    And what happened those natives?

    They ended up second class citizens, deposed of their lands, traditions and customs, and thrown on squalid reservations to have their sons become wards of the state, after being ethnically cleansed in a genocidal pogrom.

    That's not the future I want for my sons, not the future I want for my posterity and certainly not the future I'm willing to accept for a cheap roof.
    Indeed. One would have to be an idiot or suffering from a massive outbreak of white guilt to read that comic and think an unlimited immigration policy is a good thing.



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  18. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's how the Roman Empire fell. Plastic lawn-chair market manipulation.

    If only they had known to put up tariffs back then maybe they'd still be around.
    The Roman empire wasn't exactly a bastion of liberty but it did fall because people put their own selfish interests above their country.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    If I want/need a pair of shoes, and somebody else wants/needs a wooden chair, I and the other person are either free to exchange, or simply walk away. It is when other people like you/government who are not part of that private contract who interfere with my right to choose.

    Conversely, if an Australian person produces something, and an American produces something, it is up to me who I wish to exchange with. If I want something el' cheapo, and save the rest of my money for another exchange (something that I need or want), it is within my right to do so. If I find that the higher price thingamajig is to my liking and not have money left over for another thingamajig, that is also my right to do so.

    Your way robs me of that right.
    We should all chip in to buy Swordsmyth the Tuttle Twin series.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  20. #227

  21. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Indeed. One would have to be an idiot or suffering from a massive outbreak of white guilt to read that comic and think an unlimited immigration policy is a good thing.
    I think it's more of a progressive colonialist position (obviously out of step with PC), obviously anyone using it is implying that the Injuns were massively benefited by the coming of the white man and would have been crazy to resist being "culturally enriched" and that the 3rd worlders and communists coming here will be good for us and equivalent to Christian missionaries. (note the prominent placement of the bible in the pilgrim's hand)

    The Injuns could have been converted without being wiped out, having their land taken and having our government and culture imposed on them and the 3rd worlders and communists bring nothing like Christianity. (although liberals are sure communism is much better than Christianity.)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    It isn't free nor does it produce freedom.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    We should all chip in to buy Swordsmyth the Tuttle Twin series.
    You don't think that would be way over his head? He has a big issue with my signature don't ya know.


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    Tuttle Twins



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    Little Libertarians
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  24. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You don't think that would be way over his head? He has a big issue with my signature don't ya know.


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    Little Libertarians
    That's a nice simplistic view of principles, it seems to fit your mental age.

    Unfortunately people whose mind actually grows to an adult level realize that those principles must be imposed on the world and that some collective defense is required to do that.


    Stay in your crib and let the adults do what needs to be done.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Unfortunately people whose mind actually grows to an adult level realize that those principles must be imposed on the world and that some collective defense is required to do that.
    Yes, it is unfortunate. Which is why I keep repeating that Common Core needs to end. Adults(?) these days keep insisting that everything must be imposed and that collectivism is more important that individualism. It is a vicious cycle that Ron Paul and some of us are trying to explain.
    Last edited by PAF; 07-08-2019 at 06:28 PM.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”



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  27. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Yes, it is unfortunate. Which is why I keep repeating that Common Core needs to end. Adults(?) these days keep insisting that everything must be imposed and that collectivism is more important that the individualism. It is a vicious cycle that Ron Paul and some of us are trying to stop.
    Liberty must be imposed, it is not the natural state of the world or of humanity.

    You are anti-liberty, you are a foolish child looking at the imperfect state of the world and throwing all the babies out with all the bathwater in your simplistic arrogance.
    The individual is incapable of maintaining his rights against collectives of tyrants and therefore some collective actions must be used to preserve liberty.
    Utopia doesn't exist because it can't.
    There is no "New Soviet Anarchist Man" and there never will be so there can't be a world without collective defense.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty must be imposed, it is not the natural state of the world or of humanity.

    You are anti-liberty, you are a foolish child looking at the imperfect state of the world and throwing all the babies out with all the bathwater in your simplistic arrogance.
    The individual is incapable of maintaining his rights against collectives of tyrants and therefore some collective actions must be used to preserve liberty.
    Utopia doesn't exist because it can't.
    There is no "New Soviet Anarchist Man" and there never will be so there can't be a world without collective defense.
    I don't believe anyone is arguing against collective defense. I am simply saying there are less evil ways of 'defending' oneself than getting in bed with the Saudis and murdering millions of people.

    On top of the Tuttle Twins series, we should all chip in to buy you an American made red coat.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  29. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    I don't believe anyone is arguing against collective defense. I am simply saying there are less evil ways of 'defending' oneself than getting in bed with the Saudis and murdering millions of people.
    That is NOT what we have been discussing AT ALL.
    We have been discussing trade warfare and how to respond to it.
    Thanks for proving you are losing the argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    On top of the Tuttle Twins series, we should all chip in to buy you an American made red coat.
    You guys would be the Tories trading with the British during the revolution, your projection is amazing.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    I don't believe anyone is arguing against collective defense. I am simply saying there are less evil ways of 'defending' oneself than getting in bed with the Saudis and murdering millions of people.

    On top of the Tuttle Twins series, we should all chip in to buy you an American made red coat.

    I'm wanting some good ol' American-made hot-wings which is where my money is better spent. And a spin on my Indian. How about we get him a cheap one from Wal-Mart?

    Wait... he already has one! Look at his avatar!


    Btw, it's great to have you on the forum, kcchiefs6465
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  31. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I'm wanting some good ol' American-made hot-wings which is where my money is better spent. And a spin on my Indian. How about we get him a cheap one from Wal-Mart?

    Wait... he already has one! Look at his avatar!


    Btw, it's great to have you on the forum, kcchiefs6465
    That's a green coat with red lapels, worn by an enemy of the British.

    Go collaborate with the enemy while you still can.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Perhaps the Indians, like you and SwordSmyth, should have paid much more attention to my Signature. History does have a way of repeating itself.

    ____


    Stuart Banner, a law professor, does not deny that between the early 17th century and the end of the 19th, nearly the entire land area of the United States was transferred from Indian to non-Indian ownership. But in How the Indians Lost Their Land, he offers an avowedly revisionist account of the way this happened. Previous scholars, he claims, have overemphasized the direct seizure of Indian land, failing to recognize that the process of acquisition proceeded mainly through legal forms: namely, purchase by individuals, groups or governments, and the signing of treaties between Indians and the United States. Banner criticizes traditional accounts for denying that Indians had their own concept of private property and were tricked into selling land, and for maintaining that whites believed the native inhabitants had no real claim to land ownership. Actually, Banner insists, there were strong reasons to purchase the land and not simply to seize it. The early settlers lacked the power to dispossess the Indian population, and throughout the colonial era, with the French competing with the English for Indian loyalty, wholesale expropriation would have been politically counterproductive.

    Indeed, Banner argues, colonial governments and authorities in London generally tried to prevent settler intrusion onto Indian land before it had been purchased. This policy culminated in the Proclamation of 1763, which declared the entire continent west of the Appalachian mountains off-limits to white settlers. Of course, settlers ignored the Proclamation, as did land speculators like George Washington, who instructed his agents to buy as much Indian land in the west as possible while keeping ‘this whole matter a profound secret’ because of its illegality. But Banner’s point is that government officials were committed to dealing with Indians in a legal, orderly manner. Even speculators like Washington paid Indians for their land.


    https://www.amazon.com/How-Indians-L.../dp/067402396X
    I am well aware of that history, I have cited it many times, and have traced the original land purchases of my own family back to lands purchased fair and square from the native tribes in New England and Pennsylvania.

    It did not take long before the natives realized the danger of this: read about King Philip's War sometime.

    Within 200 years they, native aboriginals, were for all intents and purposes, eliminated from the North American land mass.

  33. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    I don't believe anyone is arguing against collective defense.
    I am quite certain that there are more than a few people who are opposed to any manner of collective defense.

    They abhor the idea, and maintain that, even if convinced of the concept, there is nothing worthwhile left of this nation to defend anyways.

    I used to think that myself...but upon more careful reflection I came to the conclusion that I was wrong...not only from a philosophical perspective but from a very real, save my life, perspective.

    The new left Bolsheviks/Jacobins will kill us if they are given the chance.

  34. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Perhaps the Indians, like you and SwordSmyth, should have paid much more attention to my Signature. History does have a way of repeating itself.

    ____


    Stuart Banner, a law professor, does not deny that between the early 17th century and the end of the 19th, nearly the entire land area of the United States was transferred from Indian to non-Indian ownership. But in How the Indians Lost Their Land, he offers an avowedly revisionist account of the way this happened. Previous scholars, he claims, have overemphasized the direct seizure of Indian land, failing to recognize that the process of acquisition proceeded mainly through legal forms: namely, purchase by individuals, groups or governments, and the signing of treaties between Indians and the United States. Banner criticizes traditional accounts for denying that Indians had their own concept of private property and were tricked into selling land, and for maintaining that whites believed the native inhabitants had no real claim to land ownership. Actually, Banner insists, there were strong reasons to purchase the land and not simply to seize it. The early settlers lacked the power to dispossess the Indian population, and throughout the colonial era, with the French competing with the English for Indian loyalty, wholesale expropriation would have been politically counterproductive.

    Indeed, Banner argues, colonial governments and authorities in London generally tried to prevent settler intrusion onto Indian land before it had been purchased. This policy culminated in the Proclamation of 1763, which declared the entire continent west of the Appalachian mountains off-limits to white settlers. Of course, settlers ignored the Proclamation, as did land speculators like George Washington, who instructed his agents to buy as much Indian land in the west as possible while keeping ‘this whole matter a profound secret’ because of its illegality. But Banner’s point is that government officials were committed to dealing with Indians in a legal, orderly manner. Even speculators like Washington paid Indians for their land.


    https://www.amazon.com/How-Indians-L.../dp/067402396X
    Thank you for proving that your ideas would get us eliminated and conquered just as the Injuns were.

    You are also ignoring all of the times and places that territory WAS taken from them by force.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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