Justin Amash is the anti-Ron Paul

[brushfire]

Let's go ahead and throw Massie in there too.

These are intelligent and capable people who quite probably would command a salary as much or more in the private sector. I feel bad for them, really.

You are so right to point him out - his omission from my post was because I was talking to the prior post mentions of both Amash and Rand. In my opinion, Thomas Massie would win statesman of the decade - that guy is truly awesome!

[kahless]

You are so right to point him out - his omission from my post was because I was talking to the prior post mentions of both Amash and Rand. In my opinion, Thomas Massie would win statesman of the decade - that guy is truly awesome!

Yes, he gets it, unlike Justin Clinton.

http://www.thomasmassie.com/issues/immigration/
The federal government should strengthen our borders. In the absence of action on the part of our federal government, states should be allowed to defend their international borders.
...
https://massie.house.gov/issues/immigration
I oppose illegal immigration and will work to secure our borders. I will also work to end taxpayer-funded programs for illegal immigrants. American taxpayers should not be forced to pay for illegal immigrants’ welfare, medical care, and other benefits that encourage illegal immigration.

[brushfire]

[tangent_alert] The exploitation of the last drowning pic, a man and his daughter, is what has been happening constantly under various administrations (including barack obama).


https://www.google.com/search?q=rio+...F1%2F2019&tbm=

These illegals are fully aware of the risks, and are willing to take them based on the incentives. I'm not sure how many media outlets are pointing out that the congress and the last 3+ administrations are to blame for these deaths - and again, no wall is going to fix the problem.

[Anti Globalist]

Have you ever been maced? I have, multiple times. Once the mace kicks in, you can pull the trigger, but you aren't hitting anybody. Boiling water is instantaneous, (mace takes about 15 - 20 seconds) and you dont even have to aim, chances of hitting are high.

The drawback is if there are two robbers, 1 cup would not work.

Then you better make sure you have 2 cups in case you're ever faced with two perpetrators.

[kahless]

Food for thought.

[brushfire]

Food for thought.

Some more perspective:

https://twitter.com/MattWelch/status...fs-on-china%2F


I personally know several business owners who have interests in China as part of their manufacturing. Tax, regulation, and health care had put a lot of pressure on employers who are faced with the choice of hiring in the US or abroad. Operating a business is much cheaper in China, for that matter, the same goes for India. There's different approaches to this labor issue, and one requires more government, while the other requires less. One approach has long term benefits, while the other imposes long and short term risks. Trump represents the government approach, while Amash represents the less government approach.

For the sake of argument, if we were to pretend that there was no attack on Trump, do any of Amash's words ring true? Are they inconsistent with his prior actions, and do they offend the cause of liberty? What if we take the partisan politics out of the equation, and then look at things for what they are - is that even possible? To be fair, I dont think many people are capable of this. Trump is the orange obama, complete with fanatic/zealot followers - people simply lose sight of the overall picture.

[pcosmar]

Take that bull$#@! back to Israel/palestine where it belongs.

it has been imported here,, and is now funded and supported from here..

and I ain't playing the game.


I have been disarmed by the socialist laws that should not exist and am threatened daily by the armed enforcers of those unjust laws..

But the Socialists ARE pushing for Total Disarmament,,and then enslavement.

I don't have a stockpile,,, and am not even welcome at 2nd amendment marches.. was Banned from THR before I came here..


I am well aware of my realities..

and why I have been Blackballed for employment,,

I ain't playing the stupid game.

Till others step up to set it right,,, I am going to watch it burn.... as I am prohibited and unwelcome.

[PAF]

Some more perspective:

https://twitter.com/MattWelch/status...fs-on-china%2F


I personally know several business owners who have interests in China as part of their manufacturing. Tax, regulation, and health care had put a lot of pressure on employers who are faced with the choice of hiring in the US or abroad. Operating a business is much cheaper in China, for that matter, the same goes for India. There's different approaches to this labor issue, and one requires more government, while the other requires less. One approach has long term benefits, while the other imposes long and short term risks. Trump represents the government approach, while Amash represents the less government approach.

For the sake of argument, if we were to pretend that there was no attack on Trump, do any of Amash's words ring true? Are they inconsistent with his prior actions, and do they offend the cause of liberty? What if we take the partisan politics out of the equation, and then look at things for what they are - is that even possible? To be fair, I don't think many people are capable of this. Trump is the orange obama, complete with fanatic/zealot followers - people simply lose sight of the overall picture.

+ REP

More government involvement ALWAYS leads to more government involvement.

[UWDude]

it has been imported here,, and is now funded and supported from here..

and I ain't playing the game.


I have been disarmed by the socialist laws that should not exist and am threatened daily by the armed enforcers of those unjust laws..

But the Socialists ARE pushing for Total Disarmament,,and then enslavement.

I don't have a stockpile,,, and am not even welcome at 2nd amendment marches.. was Banned from THR before I came here..


I am well aware of my realities..

and why I have been Blackballed for employment,,

I ain't playing the stupid game.

Till others step up to set it right,,, I am going to watch it burn.... as I am prohibited and unwelcome.

I almost felt sorry for you.
Then I remembered I learned to code last year, while working full time.

#learntocode

[TheTexan]

Ron Paul won despite losing; Amash teaches libertarians simply how to lose by losing.

libertarians were losing long before Amash, and they'll be losing long after he's gone.

I think they invented losing .

[nobody's_hero]

Seriously, posting ron resignation letter from the gop is pointless because he went back and stayed for decades

People still think that working within the GOP means you're automatically selling out and letting them use you. It's absolutely unfathomable for some folks to think it is possible to use the GOP. I don't see why we couldn't. Hell, we already have. Ron used the GOP. Rand used the GOP. Even Amash used the GOP. The neocons have been using the GOP (and the Democratic party) at least since Rockefeller. We're just politically incompetent. That's our biggest problem.

[nobody's_hero]

it has been imported here,, and is now funded and supported from here..

and I ain't playing the game.


I have been disarmed by the socialist laws that should not exist and am threatened daily by the armed enforcers of those unjust laws..

But the Socialists ARE pushing for Total Disarmament,,and then enslavement.

I don't have a stockpile,,, and am not even welcome at 2nd amendment marches.. was Banned from THR before I came here..


I am well aware of my realities..

and why I have been Blackballed for employment,,

I ain't playing the stupid game.

Till others step up to set it right,,, I am going to watch it burn.... as I am prohibited and unwelcome.

You are a hipster's hipster. Too cool for a job. Too cool for political parties. Man, you're just a cool dude.

[Sammy]

Justin Amash has one of the best voting records in D.C....He will not be re-elected.
My feeling is that he is going to run for President & this could cost Trump the election.

[kahless]

Justin Amash has one of the best voting records in D.C....He will not be re-elected.
My feeling is that he is going to run for President & this could cost Trump the election.

I am surprised to hear that from someone who has good old Pat as his avatar who I am big fan of. They share practically nothing in common and are polar opposites on trade, the border, immigration and culture. Pat is more hardcore than Trump on these issues. If Pat was President one can only imagine how triggered Amash would be.

[Anti Globalist]

Justin Amash has one of the best voting records in D.C....He will not be re-elected.
My feeling is that he is going to run for President & this could cost Trump the election.

Unlikely. Trumps the kind of guy that has plans for every scenario possible. After all, he spend nearly 4 decades creating the perfect blueprint to become president. Even if Amash were to run, he would get more Democrats to vote for him than Republicans.

[PAF]

Unlikely. Trumps the kind of guy that has plans for every scenario possible. After all, he spend nearly 4 decades creating the perfect blueprint to become president. Even if Amash were to run, he would get more Democrats to vote for him than Republicans.

And that is bad how? Isn't that what Ron suggested we do? Justin constantly talks about the Constitution and representing his constituents. What better way that this to return to the Constitution.

[devil21]

Unlikely. Trumps the kind of guy that has plans for every scenario possible. After all, he spend nearly 4 decades creating the perfect blueprint to become president. Even if Amash were to run, he would get more Democrats to vote for him than Republicans.

It's funny that you think Trump himself created it instead of the image that led to him being in the WH being created for him. TV shows, a speaking tour across the country at state GOP conventions a couple years before he declared for President, among others. His status was created via a coordinated plan put together by the banker's think tanks like the british Tavistock Institute. It's always about -how to sell the pre-planned outcome- and is planned years in advance.

Remember when Obama landed in the IL State Senate as a nobody and only because the incumbent was outed as being an adulterer right before the election and had to drop out? Then he was given major media attention as a keynote speaker at the DNC and landed immediately afterward into the US Senate? Then the media turned him into the second coming of Jesus for 2008? Pay attention to the history and you'll see that these people are placed into position, mainly via media coverage.

[kahless]

It's funny that you think Trump himself created it instead of the image that led to him being in the WH being created for him. TV shows, a speaking tour across the country at state GOP conventions a couple years before he declared for President, among others. His status was created via a coordinated plan put together by the banker's think tanks like the british Tavistock Institute. It's always about -how to sell the pre-planned outcome- and is planned years in advance.

Remember when Obama landed in the IL State Senate as a nobody and only because the incumbent was outed as being an adulterer right before the election and had to drop out? Then he was given major media attention as a keynote speaker at the DNC and landed immediately afterward into the US Senate? Then the media turned him into the second coming of Jesus for 2008? Pay attention to the history and you'll see that these people are placed into position, mainly via media coverage.

I remember when Obama was running for Senate and the media portrayed him as a rock star. It was pretty clear back then he was hand picked to be President some day.

[devil21]

I remember when Obama was running for Senate and the media portrayed him as a rock star. It was pretty clear back then he was hand picked to be President some day.

They all are. Hence the notion of this being a simulation, the Matrix. All pre-planned. Even Roosevelt (iirc) stated that it's all planned in politics, nothing happens (that you're made aware of, at least) by accident.

[Sammy]

I am surprised to hear that from someone who has good old Pat as his avatar who I am big fan of. They share practically nothing in common and are polar opposites on trade, the border, immigration and culture. Pat is more hardcore than Trump on these issues. If Pat was President one can only imagine how triggered Amash would be.

I don't agree with Amash on immigration. Libertarians & Paleoconservatives agree on 80%. They only disagree on immigration,Trade & Social issues.
Nice to see people here that like Pat Buchanan

[RonZeplin]

Food for thought.

[kahless]

They all are. Hence the notion of this being a simulation, the Matrix. All pre-planned. Even Roosevelt (iirc) stated that it's all planned in politics, nothing happens (that you're made aware of, at least) by accident.

Either that or the news media does a great job in brainwashing the masses. I said back then to people give it a few years, we will have Hillary and Obama running for President. The response was typically oh common that is ridiculous, not going to happen. But I thought it was so obvious from the media cheer leading to the extreme years in advance as if setting it up. Every time they do this it is obvious what is on the horizon.

I thought the same about Trump back then even after his failed Reform Party that give it 15 years. But after watching the bus incident live in 2008 I think, I thought he had no future chance. It was weird the media waited so long during the campaign and made such a big deal about it being some kind of new discovery. This when I could remember it clearly like it was yesterday the whole time. Same crap with Ron's newsletters every 4 years, "new discovery". All such a sham.

Same when Pat Buchanan was running, just waiting for the media to play the Nazi card. So frustrating to watch people fall for it. It is like how the hell can people fall for this stuff when if you watch the news media they are so obvious with their intentions well in advance.

[kahless]

I don't agree with Amash on immigration. Libertarians & Paleoconservatives agree on 80%. They only disagree on immigration,Trade & Social issues.
Nice to see people here that like Pat Buchanan

There are quite a few us here. RPF is like a refugee camp for the Buchanan Brigades.

[Krugminator2]

Food for thought.

I highly doubt that this is significantly harming his family's business but if they are, is his response wrong? Classical liberals want the boot of government off their neck.

I would be furious if government were harming me. Protectionist tariffs are immoral and disgusting. Free trade is the foreign policy of a capitalist society.

[nobody's_hero]

Same when Pat Buchanan was running, just waiting for the media to play the Nazi card. So frustrating to watch people fall for it. It is like how the hell can people fall for this stuff when if you watch the news media they are so obvious with their intentions well in advance.

We're gonna regret that we didn't continue to kick the media when they were down. LOOOONG after Trump is gone, the real threat will remain.

[PAF]

I don't agree with Amash on immigration. Libertarians & Paleoconservatives agree on 80%. They only disagree on immigration,Trade & Social issues.
Nice to see people here that like Pat Buchanan

Actually, RPF, as of late, has become everything other than “Ron Paul” Forums, and in favor of the very restrictionist policies that have caused our liberties to deteriorate over time.

Ron Paul, Justin Amash, Walter Block, etc... the very people who stand on principle seem to have little impact, or place here anymore.

[kahless]

I highly doubt that this is significantly harming his family's business but if they are, is his response wrong? Classical liberals want the boot of government off their neck.

I would be furious if government were harming me. Protectionist tariffs are immoral and disgusting. Free trade is the foreign policy of a capitalist society.

But it is ok for a foreign adversary to do so to your own country men? A libertarian like society is not possible with competing political systems that wish to control, own and destroy you. I agree if we call free trade a nationalist policy in a capitalist society within our own borders.

[familydog]

I am genuinely curious. Are you positing that you have or will have done more in impeding or rolling back, say, the police state in your entire life than Justin Amash has done in eight years?

I wasn't positing one way or the other. However, I could make the case that he has not done more than I in advancing the cause of liberty. Give it a couple of years (if that) and very few people outside of this movement will remember Justin Amash existed.

If you want to say that it was stupid of Amash for doing what he did- there is no question there is an argument to be made. But to act like Trump isn't actively destroying freedom (anti-free trade, anti-2nd Amendment, drone war escalation, etc.) while Justin Amash has spent his time in Congress actively being a wrench in the gears is downright special. The man camped out numerous times to ensure that bills were not passed in secret. Not because he had to or because it was politically convenient, I'd add.

I would never argue that Trump passes the liberty purity test. However, he can't destroy what does not exist. The spirit of '76 died in 1865. He is simply carrying the torch for the status quo. However, I am not so biased that I cannot congratulate him on the few good things he has accomplished.

You don't think Trump should be indicted/impeached for Obstruction of Justice? Cool. Neither do I. He ought to be tried as a war criminal. I piss obstructions.

Look, Trump is an imperialist president. There are only a few presidents since the end of the War of Southern Independence that weren't. Trump could be impeached for any number of things. US military action in Yemen is a great start. However, Justin Amash decided it was more important to virtue signal to the left than actually stand up for liberty.

[Krugminator2]

But it is ok for a foreign adversary to do so to your own country men? A libertarian like society is not possible with competing political systems that wish to control, own and destroy you. I agree if we call free trade a nationalist policy in a capitalist society within our own borders.

China is a tough case. I do think China should be retaliated against. They steal secrets and American intellectual property.

But let's be in reality this isn't about China. The litmus is about tariffs against countries like Canada or even Mexico? Do you think auto makers should be penalized for making things in Mexico? There is no justification for protectionist tariffs ever.

[sylcfh]

China is a tough case. I do think China should be retaliated against. They steal secrets and American intellectual property.

Who cares about deep state secrets? Intellectual property? Is this a libertarian forum or what?