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Thread: Michigan Poll: Justin Amash Underwater Beneath 20 Percent, Trails Challenger by Double Digits

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He did plenty of other things against Trump and this didn't happen, Rand has opposed Trump and this didn't happen.
    This happened because he endorsed treasonous lies.
    Exactly.

    Amash thinks he can unite the parties in their hate for Trump.
    He is purple revolution not-gonna-happen levels dumb.

    He $#@!ed up.
    That's all there is to it.

    Bye Bye Amash. Run for president for LP.
    Bigger win for Trump.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He did plenty of other things against Trump and this didn't happen, Rand has opposed Trump and this didn't happen.
    Rand isn't up for reelection, and Rand's been shilling for Trump by and large since the doofus moved into the White House.

    This happened because he endorsed treasonous lies.
    It happened because he opposed Trump: period.

    The GOP is the only side we can work with to get anything done and we are pulling them our direction
    If by "us" you mean people obsessed with culture and nationalism and actively opposed to small government, that's right.

    Of course, I am not part of that "us."

    Trump himself is closer to us than the GOP, if you actually care about making progress then we must work with the GOP until something changes.
    The GOP is a dumpster-fire, more even than during the Bush administration.

    Trump is affecting a permanent change in the party; it isnt even pretending to care about small government anymore.

    As we were discussing in another thread recently, FOX is focused on anti-trust and regulatory actions against its political enemies.

    No one in the GOP gives a flying $#@! about the astronomical level of federal spending and debt.

    Imbeciles seem to think that Trump has accomplished "deregulation."

    The GOP is done as a vehicle for libertarians (malfunctional vehicle though it was the whole time).

    It's becoming a national socialist party; i.e. just like the Democrats, but on the other side of the culture war - useless.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Rand isn't up for reelection, and Rand's been shilling for Trump by and large since the doofus moved into the White House.



    It happened because he opposed Trump: period.



    If by "us" you mean people obsessed with culture and nationalism and actively opposed to small government, that's right.

    Of course, I am not part of that "us."



    The GOP is a dumpster-fire, more even than during the Bush administration.

    Trump is affecting a permanent change in the party; it isnt even pretending to care about small government anymore.

    As we were discussing in another thread recently, FOX is focused on anti-trust and regulatory actions against its political enemies.

    No one in the GOP gives a flying $#@! about the astronomical level of federal spending and debt.

    Imbeciles seem to think that Trump has accomplished "deregulation."

    The GOP is done as a vehicle for libertarians (malfunctional vehicle though it was the whole time).

    It's becoming a national socialist party; i.e. just like the Democrats, but on the other side of the culture war - useless.
    LOL
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL
    ROFLMAO



    We'll discuss this further in a couple decades over a $500 coffee.

    MAGA!

    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ROFLMAO



    We'll discuss this further in a couple decades over a $500 coffee.

    MAGA!

    If you have your way we'll be too dead to enjoy the $50,000 cocoa.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Rand isn't up for reelection, and Rand's been shilling for Trump by and large since the doofus moved into the White House.



    It happened because he opposed Trump: period.



    If by "us" you mean people obsessed with culture and nationalism and actively opposed to small government, that's right.

    Of course, I am not part of that "us."



    The GOP is a dumpster-fire, more even than during the Bush administration.

    Trump is affecting a permanent change in the party; it isnt even pretending to care about small government anymore.

    As we were discussing in another thread recently, FOX is focused on anti-trust and regulatory actions against its political enemies.

    No one in the GOP gives a flying $#@! about the astronomical level of federal spending and debt.

    Imbeciles seem to think that Trump has accomplished "deregulation."

    The GOP is done as a vehicle for libertarians (malfunctional vehicle though it was the whole time).

    It's becoming a national socialist party; i.e. just like the Democrats, but on the other side of the culture war - useless.
    Where do you get the idea that the gop wasn't a dumpster fire under Bush?
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Now a days the future freedoms of ones posterity is less important than the freedom today to insert what one wants into ones posterior.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That is a lie.
    @Brian4Liberty, devil keeps spreading this lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I will report violations of the forum rules to the forum staff when they are egregious enough.

    You should remember that.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Where do you get the idea that the gop wasn't a dumpster fire under Bush?
    Oh, it was, but it pretended to care about small government.

    That was always the reason for libertarians to work within the GOP.

    They obviously don't really care about small government, but, as long as they pretended, that gave us an angle.

    ...i.e. they couldn't attack us (too much) for actually promoting what they pretended to believe in.

    Now, they don't even pretend; e.g. every single $#@!ing night on FOX this $#@! Tucker Carlson spews anti-capitalist garbage.

    ...to be invariably repeated by the GOP faithful the next day, on Breitbart, here.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Rand isn't up for reelection, and Rand's been shilling for Trump by and large since the doofus moved into the White House.



    It happened because he opposed Trump: period.



    If by "us" you mean people obsessed with culture and nationalism and actively opposed to small government, that's right.

    Of course, I am not part of that "us."



    The GOP is a dumpster-fire, more even than during the Bush administration.

    Trump is affecting a permanent change in the party; it isnt even pretending to care about small government anymore.

    As we were discussing in another thread recently, FOX is focused on anti-trust and regulatory actions against its political enemies.

    No one in the GOP gives a flying $#@! about the astronomical level of federal spending and debt.

    Imbeciles seem to think that Trump has accomplished "deregulation."

    The GOP is done as a vehicle for libertarians (malfunctional vehicle though it was the whole time).

    It's becoming a national socialist party; i.e. just like the Democrats, but on the other side of the culture war - useless.

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to r3volution 3.0 again.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    He's probably going to lose.

    Why?

    He angered Trump, and the GOP is presently Trump's bitch.

    As I said weeks ago in another thread, this is exactly why (l)ibertarians ought to leave the GOP.

    Run LP Justin; so what if $#@!tard loses to Biden, same thing anyway - stop pretending they're allies, $#@! them.
    Amash angered his constituents and many people that campaigned and supported him.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Amash angered his constituents and many people that campaigned and supported him.
    Correct. Those that vote based on podium rhetoric and emotion and not the actual floor votes in the house.

    All of this nonsense does not bother me in the least as long as his record stays above 90%, which it is.

    I wonder if he is replaced what the record will be of his replacement. Care to guess?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    Uh, he's said as much in dozens of interviews. What in the world are you talking about?
    Ohhhhh. So you're taking Trump at his word. Got it.

    That's one of my pet peeves with the Trump lemmings. When Trump claims that he wants something, then instead of saying, "Trump claims that he wants X," they just skip right to, "Trump wants X," as though it's a fact because he said so. Not long ago that very thing happened with one of their thread titles, and they were apoplectic when the mods changed the title to be more accurate, instead of us all going along with them at pretending we could take Trump at his word.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 07-04-2019 at 06:54 AM.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Amash angered his constituents and many people that campaigned and supported him.
    But not by doing anything that any of them have any good reason to be angry about.

  16. #43
    Supporting Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    Justin is the tip of the spear movement by Americans to MAGA, by dumping Trump.

    Landslide victory is in the bag.

    Let Liberty Reign.
    This won't age well...
    Citizen of Arizona
    @cleaner4d4

    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Hopefully Amash can still pull out a victory. I don't like what hes doing calling for Trumps impeachment, but hes one of the best people we have in Congress. We can't afford to lose him.
    Then he'd better run as a democrat. You don't get into office in this country unless you play the two party game. It is what it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Correct. Those that vote based on podium rhetoric and emotion and not the actual floor votes in the house.

    All of this nonsense does not bother me in the least as long as his record stays above 90%, which it is.

    I wonder if he is replaced what the record will be of his replacement. Care to guess?
    Umm, you do realize he could be in there for a long time keeping up that voting record if he had been a bit more savvy about politics, don't you?

    Libertarians need to come up with a better strategy than "Damn the torpedoes!" if you actually want to change anything.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 07-04-2019 at 08:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Then he'd better run as a democrat. You don't get into office in this country unless you play the two party game. It is what it is.




    Umm, you do realize he could be in there for a long time keeping up that voting record if he had been a bit more savvy about politics, don't you?

    Libertarians need to come up with a better strategy than "Damn the torpedoes!" if you actually want to change anything.

    Justin will be on the RonPaulLibertyReport where he will take off the gloves ;-)

    And I can’t wait!
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Justin will be on the RonPaulLibertyReport where he will take off the gloves ;-)

    And I can’t wait!
    I'm sure you and the other guy who watches the show are overjoyed.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I'm sure you and the other guy who watches the show are overjoyed.
    GFY
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    GFY
    Oh please, do continue preaching to the choir.

    I'm sorry but y'all need to come up with a G-D DAMNED STRATEGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So if you think it's cool for liberty candidates to perform seppuku on a whim after everyone busts their asses to get them into office, maybe you can "GFY."
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 07-04-2019 at 09:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Oh please, do continue preaching to the choir.

    I'm sorry but y'all need to come up with a G-D DAMNED STRATEGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So if you think it's cool for liberty candidates to perform seppuku on a whim after everyone busts their asses to get them into office, maybe you can "GFY."
    Oh I get it, you are just keeping with the new forum mission. Phuck you and the Orange man!
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Ohhhhh. So you're taking Trump at his word. Got it.

    That's one of my pet peeves with the Trump lemmings. When Trump claims that he wants something, then instead of saying, "Trump claims that he wants X," they just skip right to, "Trump wants X," as though it's a fact because he said so. Not long ago that very thing happened with one of their thread titles, and they were apoplectic when the mods changed the title to be more accurate, instead of us all going along with them at pretending we could take Trump at his word.
    LOL you are seriously a top tier moron. Trump "lemming"? Read my post history. Your stage 4 TDS is honestly getting tiresome at this point.

    You have no evidence that Trump wants to use FISA against future presidents. You are just spewing this nonsense right out of your ass. Literally making it up, acting like it's fact, then telling everyone else how stupid we are. Instead, I've seen and heard in dozens of interviews an authentic expression of disdain for the abuse he has had to suffer.

    An innocent man was targeted by his political opponent in conjunction with the US government spying apparatus / deep state to be set up for a fake crime. Our government sent multiple spies into his campaign to attempt to lure and entrap people who worked for him. They compiled entirely made up, filthy, disgusting "dossiers" and used them to obtain illegal FISA warrants. The deep state worked with multiple foreign governments to circumvent our own laws and spy further on the campaign. Top FBI agents conspired to create an "insurance policy" to take him out in the case that he won. A special council was launched based off the illegal leaking of a justifiably fired FBI director. The special council was run by Andrew Weissmann, one of the most hated and least respected US attorneys in all of history, who hired primarily Clinton donors and former Clinton employees. The special council knew from day one that the crime they were investigating was a hoax, but proceed for two years to lie, attack, smear, and arrest anyone who dared enter Trump's orbit. Many lives of innocent people were ruined over process crimes with the goal of forcing someone to sing the songs the government wanted to hear.

    Everything stated above is FACT. You are unable to even admit what happened, and as such you can't genuinely understand that a man who suffered through this might not want it to happen to others.

    Truly disgusting.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    Oh I get it, you are just keeping with the new forum mission. Phuck you and the Orange man!
    Orange man is GONE in 5 years (hell, he may be gone by Jan 2021). Do better. Think long term. I know it hurts, but, think. Massie just lost his only ally in congress just so y'all can beat your chests. I certainly don't think Trump is gonna be there forever. I'm trying to figure out how to get more liberty candidates into congress while holding on to the ones we've got, meanwhile others are saluting them and encouraging them to 'go down in flames.'

    Do you kind of see how we're at odds here over what's the best strategy?
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 07-04-2019 at 09:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  26. #52

    Cryin Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    This won't age well...
    Even Ray Charles can see that you're wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  27. #53

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Orange man is GONE in 5 years (hell, he may be gone by Jan 2021). Do better. Think long term. I know it hurts, but, think. Massie just lost his only ally in congress just so y'all can beat your chests. I certainly don't think Trump is gonna be there forever. I'm trying to figure out how to get more liberty candidates into congress while holding on to the ones we've got, meanwhile others are saluting them and encouraging them to 'go down in flames.'

    Do you kind of see how we're at odds here over what's the best strategy?
    Yep.

    The question we should ask ourselves is, how do we weed out people like Amash to begin with? How much cumulative time, effort and money did we waste on his campaign(s) only for him to purposefully sink his own efforts due to personal derangements about Trump? If he wanted to retire, he could have just done so. But he had to go out in the worst possible way, making libertarians look like hypocritical morons.

    These situations need to be avoided in the future.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    Yep.

    The question we should ask ourselves is, how do we weed out people like Amash to begin with? How much cumulative time, effort and money did we waste on his campaign(s) only for him to purposefully sink his own personal derangements about Trump? If he wanted to retire, he could have just done so. But he had to go out in the worst possible way, making libertarians look like hypocritical morons.

    These situations need to be avoided in the future.
    His voting record can't be denied. Overwhelmingly it was a benefit for him to be in office. He never got anything passed but certainly he won't be doing that from the Liberty Report. I know people take this the wrong way but, the liberty report is not really a benefit to this movement. It is a good place for us to tune in and hear refreshing words of wisdom that make us feel warm and fuzzy inside (AKA "Preaching to the choir"), but as far as making changes and expanding the audience, it's been a flop. It's painful to admit it, and as you can see above, people hate me for pointing it out, but it's true. Having said that, at Ron's age, I don't think hosting the Liberty Report is a bad thing for him to be doing in his retirement years. But Amash had a lot of fight left in him, and it's ABSOLUTELY STUPID to think trading a sitting Congressman for another co-host on the Liberty Report is just some wonderful thing.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 07-04-2019 at 10:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Orange man is GONE in 5 years (hell, he may be gone by Jan 2021). Do better. Think long term. I know it hurts, but, think. Massie just lost his only ally in congress just so y'all can beat your chests. I certainly don't think Trump is gonna be there forever. I'm trying to figure out how to get more liberty candidates into congress while holding on to the ones we've got, meanwhile others are saluting them and encouraging them to 'go down in flames.'

    Do you kind of see how we're at odds here over what's the best strategy?
    I hate how libertarians tend to virtue themselves into self-immolation. Justin Amash was $#@!ing retarded on this point.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    I hate how libertarians tend to virtue themselves into self-immolation. Justin Amash was $#@!ing retarded on this point.
    Up until Amash supported the impeachment of Trump, I have never met or heard of another libertarian who supported this move. This was a bone head move on his part and has very little to do with libertarians. There was absolutely nothing to be gained from this act, nothing educational, no political or moral victor nothing I can think of. And even though many libertarians still support Amash very few support the impeachment of Trump.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Rand isn't up for reelection, and Rand's been shilling for Trump by and large since the doofus moved into the White House.



    It happened because he opposed Trump: period.



    If by "us" you mean people obsessed with culture and nationalism and actively opposed to small government, that's right.

    Of course, I am not part of that "us."



    The GOP is a dumpster-fire, more even than during the Bush administration.

    Trump is affecting a permanent change in the party; it isnt even pretending to care about small government anymore.

    As we were discussing in another thread recently, FOX is focused on anti-trust and regulatory actions against its political enemies.

    No one in the GOP gives a flying $#@! about the astronomical level of federal spending and debt.

    Imbeciles seem to think that Trump has accomplished "deregulation."

    The GOP is done as a vehicle for libertarians (malfunctional vehicle though it was the whole time).

    It's becoming a national socialist party; i.e. just like the Democrats, but on the other side of the culture war - useless.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to r3volution 3.0 again.

    I think SS is right on this point. Amash is only in this trouble not just because he opposed Trump but because he supported impeachment, something not even Pelosi(Trump's pretend enemy) supports. I know 2 people with opposing views can support the same policy without making them identical but he started sounding like Rachel Maddow for a minute and that is not good.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    Even Ray Charles can see that you're wrong.

    Keep making a fool of yourself, that way I don't have to worry about anyone listening to you.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to r3volution 3.0 again.

    I think SS is right on this point. Amash is only in this trouble not just because he opposed Trump but because he supported impeachment, something not even Pelosi(Trump's pretend enemy) supports. I know 2 people with opposing views can support the same policy without making them identical but he started sounding like Rachel Maddow for a minute and that is not good.
    His talk about impeachment had something to do with it.

    But so what?

    Suppose he had said nothing about impeachment, and instead said that the President is a retard with leftist instincts.

    ...a tragic casualty of the inexorable advance of Marxism in New York City.

    ...a low IQ trust fund kid who has no business speaking in public.

    Would that (the truth) be better?

    More importantly, would it change anything at all?
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

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