Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Trumpís Socialist Mindset on Trade

  1. #1

    Thumbs down Trumpís Socialist Mindset on Trade

    In announcing that the U.S. and China are resuming trade talks, President Trump demonstrated the socialist mindset that afflicts him and his fellow Republicans and, for that matter, the Democrats as well. Trump said that during the negotiations, the United States would keep a 25 percent duty on $250 billion of Chinese goods and that he would give China a list of U.S. products to buy.

    A list of U.S. products to buy? How in the world does Trump come up with such a list? How does he know what China wants? What if China isnít interested in buying those particular things? It doesnít matter, at least not to Trump. What matters to him is that he knows which particular U.S. products he wants sold and is forcing China to buy them as part of the agreement to return to the negotiating table.

    It would be difficult to find a better example of the mindset of a central planner than that. Under a free-market system, people are free to buy whatever they want to buy. They make the choice, not the government.

    Now, we all know that China is not a genuine free-market system. While the Chinese regime has tremendously reduced government control over economic activity, there is still a considerable amount of government enterprise, not to mention the fact that the government retains overall control over economic activity. Like here in the United States, there is still a large amount of central planning, government management of the economy, subsidies, and other socialist and interventionist policies. Thus, the decisions to purchase things are made by both the Chinese government and the Chinese private sector.

    Regardless, whether itís either the Chinese government or a Chinese business that is doing the buying, the principle is the same: they are going to buy what they want to buy. Why should they be compelled to buy what they donít want to buy as a condition for negotiations that might lead to Trump ending his trade war?

    Like Chinese President Xi Jinping, Trump has convinced himself that the role of a president of a country is to manage and control trade and economic activity. Thatís why he is providing the Chinese with a list of what they must buy from American sellers, whether they want to buy such things or not.

    How does Trump decide which American products and sellers make his favorites list? Politics, of course. We have a presidential election coming up. Trump is no dummy. Like his Democratic opponents, he has to start passing out the political candy in order to get votes. Therefore, the people who are going to make the list are those who stand a good chance at helping him get elected. Among the privileged will almost certainly be those American farmers who Trump has bankrupted or severely damaged economically with his trade war. To ease the economic destruction that he has wrought on them, Trump ended up putting them on welfare. Undoubtedly he will put them on his favorites list so that he can proclaim, ďLook what I have done for you. I bankrupted you but I put you on welfare and also on my favorites list that forced the Chinese to buy your products. We are winning my trade war and we are making America great again!Ē


    What people want to buy never enters the mind of the central planner. All that matters is what Trump wants, and right now he wants accolades and votes. In fact, Trumpís entire trade war goes to show the mindset of the central planner, one characterized by what Friedrich Hayek called a ďfatal conceitĒ ó a conceit by which the planner professes to know what people want better than they do. Convinced that American businessmen could not handle Chinaís unfair trade practices, Trump designated himself as the official agent for American business and industry. By raising taxes on the American people (thatís what tariffs are), Trump was going to show the Chinese how ďtoughĒ he could be in trade negotiations as agent for American business and industry. Predictably, China retaliated by increasing tariffs on American goods.

    The losers in all this trade mayhem? Both the American people and the Chinese people. Among American losers are the businesses that have been bankrupted or severely damaged by Trumpís trade antics. Also losing are American consumers, who Trump has forced to pay higher prices for items they wish to purchase.

    Most important, Trumpís antics have served to further destroy the economic liberty of the American people. People have the fundamental, natural, God-given right to trade with whomever they want. Thatís what freedom, at a minimum, necessarily entails ó the right to use your money the way you want.


    ............
    http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/...ndset-on-trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Trump may not be perfect but he is far better than letting the ChiComs control and destroy our economy.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    In announcing that the U.S. and China are resuming trade talks, President Trump demonstrated the socialist mindset that afflicts him and his fellow Republicans and, for that matter, the Democrats as well. Trump said that during the negotiations, the United States would keep a 25 percent duty on $250 billion of Chinese goods and that he would give China a list of U.S. products to buy.

    A list of U.S. products to buy? How in the world does Trump come up with such a list? How does he know what China wants? What if China isn’t interested in buying those particular things? It doesn’t matter, at least not to Trump. What matters to him is that he knows which particular U.S. products he wants sold and is forcing China to buy them as part of the agreement to return to the negotiating table.

    It would be difficult to find a better example of the mindset of a central planner than that. Under a free-market system, people are free to buy whatever they want to buy. They make the choice, not the government.

    Now, we all know that China is not a genuine free-market system. While the Chinese regime has tremendously reduced government control over economic activity, there is still a considerable amount of government enterprise, not to mention the fact that the government retains overall control over economic activity. Like here in the United States, there is still a large amount of central planning, government management of the economy, subsidies, and other socialist and interventionist policies. Thus, the decisions to purchase things are made by both the Chinese government and the Chinese private sector.

    Regardless, whether it’s either the Chinese government or a Chinese business that is doing the buying, the principle is the same: they are going to buy what they want to buy. Why should they be compelled to buy what they don’t want to buy as a condition for negotiations that might lead to Trump ending his trade war?

    Like Chinese President Xi Jinping, Trump has convinced himself that the role of a president of a country is to manage and control trade and economic activity. That’s why he is providing the Chinese with a list of what they must buy from American sellers, whether they want to buy such things or not.

    How does Trump decide which American products and sellers make his favorites list? Politics, of course. We have a presidential election coming up. Trump is no dummy. Like his Democratic opponents, he has to start passing out the political candy in order to get votes. Therefore, the people who are going to make the list are those who stand a good chance at helping him get elected. Among the privileged will almost certainly be those American farmers who Trump has bankrupted or severely damaged economically with his trade war. To ease the economic destruction that he has wrought on them, Trump ended up putting them on welfare. Undoubtedly he will put them on his favorites list so that he can proclaim, “Look what I have done for you. I bankrupted you but I put you on welfare and also on my favorites list that forced the Chinese to buy your products. We are winning my trade war and we are making America great again!”


    What people want to buy never enters the mind of the central planner. All that matters is what Trump wants, and right now he wants accolades and votes. In fact, Trump’s entire trade war goes to show the mindset of the central planner, one characterized by what Friedrich Hayek called a “fatal conceit” — a conceit by which the planner professes to know what people want better than they do. Convinced that American businessmen could not handle China’s unfair trade practices, Trump designated himself as the official agent for American business and industry. By raising taxes on the American people (that’s what tariffs are), Trump was going to show the Chinese how “tough” he could be in trade negotiations as agent for American business and industry. Predictably, China retaliated by increasing tariffs on American goods.

    The losers in all this trade mayhem? Both the American people and the Chinese people. Among American losers are the businesses that have been bankrupted or severely damaged by Trump’s trade antics. Also losing are American consumers, who Trump has forced to pay higher prices for items they wish to purchase.

    Most important, Trump’s antics have served to further destroy the economic liberty of the American people. People have the fundamental, natural, God-given right to trade with whomever they want. That’s what freedom, at a minimum, necessarily entails — the right to use your money the way you want.


    ............
    http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/...ndset-on-trade
    How is this a Socialist Mindset ?

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    How is this a Socialist Mindset ?
    Government providing benefits to a particular group.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Government providing benefits to a particular group.
    Govt protecting the US against foreign gobts' that sanction us is not socialism .

  7. #6
    We could just embargo all trade with China since they refuse to play by free market rules and have a free market without them, would you prefer that?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    I am fundamentally against tariffs and believe they are bad for the economy. Tariffs are, in fact, taxes on US consumers.

    With that being said, Trump has stated his desire for an outcome of free trade and zero tariff trading relationships. If he has to use tariffs in the short term to get us to that outcome in the long term, I'm okay with it.

    I also prefer the use of economic leverage over the use of physical force.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    I am fundamentally against tariffs and believe they are bad for the economy. Tariffs are, in fact, taxes on US consumers.

    With that being said, Trump has stated his desire for an outcome of free trade and zero tariff trading relationships. If he has to use tariffs in the short term to get us to that outcome in the long term, I'm okay with it.

    I also prefer the use of economic leverage over the use of physical force.
    Would you accept moderate tariffs as part of getting rid of other taxes like the income tax?
    Tariffs are a much better form of taxation.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Would you accept moderate tariffs as part of getting rid of other taxes like the income tax?
    Tariffs are a much better form of taxation.
    What is "moderate"? How much revenue would that raise? How much revenue would you need to raise if you wanted to get rid of other non- tariff taxes? So a 200% tariff on everything imported would be a good thing (tripling prices) (assuming you want to use them to replace Federal taxes).

    US imports are worth about $2.3 trillion. Federal spending about $4.5 trillion.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-02-2019 at 07:53 PM.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So a 200% tariff on everything imported would be a good thing (tripling prices) (assuming you want to use them to replace Federal taxes).
    That's not what I said, I said it would be PART of getting rid of other taxes.

    But that would be better than the income tax anyway.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's not what I said, I said it would be PART of getting rid of other taxes.

    But that would be better than the income tax anyway.
    What is "moderate"? How much revenue would that raise? How much revenue would you need to raise if you wanted to get rid of other non- tariff taxes?

    US imports are worth about $2.3 trillion. Federal spending about $4.5 trillion.

    Half of all income tax filers don't owe any net income taxes. Tariffs would hurt them without saving them anything on their income taxes.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-02-2019 at 07:56 PM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What is "moderate"? How much revenue would that raise? How much revenue would you need to raise if you wanted to get rid of other non- tariff taxes?

    US imports are worth about $2.3 trillion. Federal spending about $4.5 trillion.

    Half of all income tax filers don't owe any net income taxes. Tariffs would hurt them without saving them anything on their income taxes.
    I'm not going there with you right now, the question wasn't addressed to you and I am not interested in letting you waste my time.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm not going there with you right now, the question wasn't addressed to you and I am not interested in letting you waste my time.
    What else are you going to do the next couple hours? You would need a 40% tariff on all imports just to close the budget deficit and not cut any other taxes.

  16. #14

    Arrow Socialism BAD - Regime Change is SOP for us.gov

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    How is this a Socialist Mindset ?
    Venezuelan style socialist gov control of the economy, under a brutal authoritarian Hugo Chavez clone.



    They're socialist alright. Official US gov policy is, Regime Change so that the people don't have to suffer. Humanitarian intervention.

    Pence, Bolton, Abrams & Pompeo must be all over it, like white on rice. Where is Juan Guido when you really need him?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    Venezuelan style socialist gov control of the economy, under a brutal authoritarian Hugo Chavez clone.



    They're socialist alright. Official US gov policy is, Regime Change so that the people don't have to suffer. Humanitarian intervention.

    Pence, Bolton, Abrams & Pompeo must be all over it, like white on rice. Where is Juan Guido when you really need him?
    lol , you are mistaken, Chavez confiscated Businesses, Trump may be a Zionist shill, but how is tariffing those that
    tariff us , 'human interventionism' ........

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    Venezuelan style socialist gov control of the economy, under a brutal authoritarian Hugo Chavez clone.



    They're socialist alright. Official US gov policy is, Regime Change so that the people don't have to suffer. Humanitarian intervention.

    Pence, Bolton, Abrams & Pompeo must be all over it, like white on rice. Where is Juan Guido when you really need him?
    The left can't meme.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm not going there with you right now, the question wasn't addressed to you and I am not interested in letting you waste my time.
    Trolls are like cockroaches the best way to get rid of them is to stop feeding them

  21. #18
    @RonZeplin thinks Joe Biden is better than Trump.

    How is Trump more socialist than Joe Biden, @RonZeplin?
    His Name was Seth Rich.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The left can't meme.
    LoL

    It's always so pathetic to see them try.

    XD
    His Name was Seth Rich.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    LoL

    It's always so pathetic to see them try.

    XD
    They've been telling us for generations that they are the creative ones but the farther left they go the less creative they get.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    And he's bailing out industrial farms with everyone else's money in the meantime too. He's an FDR clone with an R next to his name.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Would you accept moderate tariffs as part of getting rid of other taxes like the income tax?
    Tariffs are a much better form of taxation.
    In a heartbeat.



Similar Threads

  1. Trade War Update: China Trade Unfazed By Trump Tariffs
    By Zippyjuan in forum Economy & Markets
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-16-2018, 07:21 PM
  2. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 09-04-2017, 10:40 PM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-01-2016, 07:27 PM
  4. The Mindset of Trump Supporter
    By AngryCanadian in forum 2016 Presidential Election: GOP & Dem
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 11-22-2015, 07:38 AM
  5. Replies: 369
    Last Post: 11-11-2010, 08:38 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •