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Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Got it - if a platform owner ever does any moderating (on a subjective basis), he is liable for any content posted on the platform.
Now, to see how insane that is, let's apply the same logic to other fields, beyond publishing.
Suppose I own a car rental company.
I don't do much to vet my customers, but I do occasionally refuse to serve one who I dislike for purely subjective reasons.
If one of my customers commits a crime with one of my rental cars, I should be liable, because I use subjective criteria to decide who to rent to?
...how does that make any sense?
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
If you're saying that a platform owner should be required to remove illegal content once discovered, I agree, as does the existing law. But you're going much further than that, aren't you? You're saying that the platform owner should be liable simply because the illegal content was posted, or because he failed to take it down within some time of it being posted though he was unaware of it.
I never said that.
Publishers are given a reasonable amount of time to remove illegal content after being made aware of it, the big tech companies are refusing to do so or to do so in a timely manner in the case of leftists and trying to claim immunity even though they have taken editorial control.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
If that's all your saying (they must remove illegal content within a reasonable time of discovery), I agree and, AFAIK, that's already the law.
...this would be the equivalent of holding the rental company liable for renting to a known maniac.
If it's not being enforced, then enforce it (assuming the underlying crime ought to be a crime).
...which brings us to the other half of my original question, just what underlying crimes are you concerned about?
Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 06-22-2019 at 10:41 PM.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Please point to where I called for new regulations.
I have called for them to lose their immunity when they behave as a publisher and I have called for them to be sued or prosecuted for false advertising and breach of contract but I haven't called for regulations.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
There are a lot of people roaming around making the same "teh evil corporations are gonna enslave us" claims that you've been making and calling for the feds to enforce some kind of "neutrality" regime on social media, break them up with anti-trust laws, or otherwise steal their property. If you're not in favor of such things, that's good.
As for liability for illegal content, I think we agree that they ought to be liable for failing to remove illegal content once discovered. As for breach of contract, however, there almost certainly hasn't been any, given the nature of the TOS. If you can find a platform that doesn't have something to the effect of "we can kick you off the platform for any reason," I'll be surprised. I recall going through at least one actual TOS in another thread (maybe paypal?) and finding just that.
Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 06-23-2019 at 12:52 AM.
Funny but I didn't see anyone say "Hey! Write your congresscritter and demand he/she do something about MailChimp!" For free market principles to work people have to share their bad experiences about companies. So now everyone reading this knows their'es a problem with Mailchimp. Cool. Don't use MailChimp. Got it. No need for a "property rights" debate among people who aren't even arguing against your position.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
Ben Chestnut (born 1973/1974) is an American billionaire Internet entrepreneur. He is the CEO and co-founder (with Dan Kurzius) of MailChimp, an email marketing company.Mailchimp (formerly capitalized as MailChimp until 2018) is a marketing automation platform and an email marketing service. The platform is a trading name of its operator, Rocket Science Group, an American company founded in 2001 by Ben Chestnut and Mark Armstrong with Dan Kurzius joining at a later date. Mailchimp began as a paid service and added a freemium option in 2009. Within a year its user base had grown from 85,000 to 450,000. By June 2014, it was sending over 10 billion emails per month on behalf of its users. In 2017, the company was gaining 14,000 new customers every day. The company is still owned by its cofounders and has never accepted venture capital funds.
In 2016, Mailchimp was ranked No. 7 on the Forbes Cloud 100 list. In February 2017, the company was named one of Fast Company's Most Innovative Companies of 2017. In August 2017, It was reported that, Mailchimp would be opening offices in Brooklyn and in Oakland, California.
On February 2019, Mailchimp acqui-hired the team behind LemonStand, a smaller competitor. Later in 2019 the company announced its annual revenue would reach $700 million. Mailchimp is going to become a full marketing platform aimed at smaller organizations.
May or may not be Mark Armstrong (a tech guy from college): https://www.crunchbase.com/person/ma...ction-overview
Dan Kurzius (born 1971/1972) is an American billionaire businessman, the co-founder and chief customer officer of Mailchimp.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mailchimp#cite_note-7
https://www.inc.com/magazine/201802/...year-2017.html
Alternative to Mailchimp (Ahhh I love the smell of competition in the morning!): https://sendgrid.com/marketing/mailc...hoC4lwQAvD_BwE
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius
“They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020
Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber
That is all fine and dandy, well that is until you realize they have overtaken the market, becoming a monopoly, such is the case for many existing conglomerations that control the lion's share of varied markets.
...And then such a system as this becomes fully implemented and integrated throughout society and your service starts being declined by the very limited selection of consumer choices due to your personal habits and political affiliations or because of your family and friends, etc: https://www.businessinsider.com/chin...plained-2018-4
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius
“They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020
Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber
Why haven't the offended chimps sued them for that offensive co name ?
Do something Danke
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius
“They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020
Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber
For months people here have been calling for the feds to force tech companies to be "neutral" and/or break them up with anti-trust laws.
Did you read all of the posts in this thread? Here's one of several examples.
And this has been a major national talking point among GOPers (watch any episode of Tucker Carlson, for example).
So, no, I'm not jousting at windmills, even if I was mistaken about SS being among those calling for these interventions.
Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 06-23-2019 at 02:49 PM.
Okay. I stand corrected. Yes some people are calling for government interference in....an email service? Ummmm.....okay.
MailChimp isn't close to being a monopoly and it's impossible for a service like MailChimp to acquire monopoly status! This is not like Facebook or Twitter where the only way you can contact people you are only connected through Facebook or Twitter is on Facebook or Twitter. I know I am being redundant, but it's to make a point. There are a lot of open source alternatives to MailChimp.
Here. For those too lazy to DuckDuckGo it. (No need to keep feeding into the phony Google "monopoly".)
https://www.bettertechtips.com/linux...s-open-source/
Nobody on your email list is going to care if you switch from MailChimp to some other service. They won't even notice unless you tell them. Now if MailChimp held on to your data that would be a problem. But if they turn over your email list so that you can upload it to another service or (gasp!) host the service yourself? No problem. You cannot be "deplatformed" by a company like MailChimp. If you lost your Gmail account, on the other hand, that could be a problem, but then again as long as you were allowed to take your data (your contact list and email archive), that shouldn't be a problem either. Tech companies should be able to hold onto your data. I know that put crap in their phony adherence contracts that allow them to get away with that crap but that is where government should step in. Your data is your "intellectual property." If I rent a hotel room from you and you, for whatever reason, decide to kick me out and contractually that's allowed then fine, I'll leave. But if you say "Yeah...but you can't take your clothes or laptop with you because they are on our property and they belong to us now due to a clause on page 50 of the hotel leasing agreement that we didn't highlight and we know that nobody ever reads because the whole thing is too damn long to read." Well in that case we have a problem.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
Well said
Is it?Tech companies should be able to hold onto your data. I know that put crap in their phony adherence contracts that allow them to get away with that crap but that is where government should step in. Your data is your "intellectual property." If I rent a hotel room from you and you, for whatever reason, decide to kick me out and contractually that's allowed then fine, I'll leave. But if you say "Yeah...but you can't take your clothes or laptop with you because they are on our property and they belong to us now due to a clause on page 50 of the hotel leasing agreement that we didn't highlight and we know that nobody ever reads because the whole thing is too damn long to read." Well in that case we have a problem.
Suppose I walk up to you on the street and say: "Hi, I'm r3v, my consumer preferences are such and such."
You go sell this information to an advertising company, without my permission.
I fail to see how you violated my property rights (intellectual or otherwise).
What a pointless argument.
Once the banks start seizing your assets and closing your accounts for holding views contrary to the current junta, this will look like child's play.
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
Some general points on political discrimination by private enterprises:
1. It can be effective with state-sponsored monopolies, but then the solution is simple: remove state-sponsorship (i.e. not a market problem).
2. In a market, this can only be effective with natural monopolies, which are rare (neither social media nor banking, @Anti Federalist, qualify).
3. If you think it's a problem that people have unequal influence over politics, that problem is much broader than politically biased social media, banks, grocery stores, payment processors, etc. How about...every single media venue? How about...the fact that people have unequal amounts of income with which to finance different candidates, parties, PACs, Think Tanks, schools, churches, and every other kind of organization that influences politics? To achieve a truly "level-playing field" would require a monstrous regulatory regime to regulate all of these civil organizations and their donors (or outright communism to make for equal incomes).
4. The underlying assumption of this "neutrality" movement, that the people only vote the wrong way because of biased media, etc, is false.
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