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Thread: Sen. Rand Paul (Op-Ed): Stop arming radical jihadism

  1. #1

    Sen. Rand Paul (Op-Ed): Stop arming radical jihadism




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  3. #2
    Sen. Rand Paul: Stop arming radical jihadism

    The Middle East is a hot cauldron continually threatening to boil over.

    It is a mistake to funnel arms into centuries-old conflicts.

    There is no great certainty that the arms we send into the Middle East will not one day be used against our soldiers. In fact, there is a real threat that someday our young soldiers will be sent to fight against the very weapons Congress sends today.

    It has happened. In Iran, to this day, the military still has some U.S. weapons left over from weapons the U.S. supplied to the shah. In Iraq, some of the weapons we gave the country to fight Iran were still there when we returned to fight Saddam Hussein. In Afghanistan, some of the weapons we gave the mujahedeen to fight the Russians were still there when we returned to fight the Taliban.

    Proliferating arms in the midst of chaos is a recipe for disaster. It’s hard to argue that sending arms into Libya or Syria advanced liberty in any way.

    Dreamers often longingly speak of a peace plan for the Middle East. Maybe we should consider a peace plan that doesn’t include dumping more arms into a region aflame in civil unrest, civil war and anarchy.

    The argument goes that we must arm anyone who is not Iran. We are told that because of Iran’s threat, the U.S. must accept selling arms to anyone who opposes Iran, even bone-saw-wielding countries brazen enough to kill a dissident in a foreign consulate

    snip......

    Bombing civilians in Yemen, for one. The Saudis, with our bombs and our refueling planes, bombed a funeral procession, wounding over 400 and killing 150. Last year, Saudi bombs killed 40 children on a school bus.

    The Saudis with our support have blockaded Hodeidah, a port necessary to import food to a starving population. As a consequence of the Yemeni civil war, 17 million people face starvation.

    In addition, the Saudis indiscriminately fed arms into the Syrian civil war. Even Hillary Clinton admitted in an email to John Podesta: “We need to use our diplomatic and more traditional intelligence assets to bring pressure on the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which are providing clandestine financial and logistic support to Isis and other radical groups in the region.”

    Let’s repeat that so no one misses the point. Hillary Clinton admitted that Qatar and Saudi Arabia were funding and arming ISIS!
    The article in brief. Talks about issues of weapon proliferation as it pertains to Iran, Syria, Yemen, Saudi Arabia etc, talks about the negative consequences to the region and the US. Because it is Rand talking, it contains the rubbish idea that the the failed invasion of Syria is a civil war that is related to the ancient wars between Sunni and Shia.

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sen-...dical-jihadism

    I was going to bold some points he made but nothing was new or really stood out to me from the article.
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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    The article in brief. Talks about issues of weapon proliferation as it pertains to Iran, Syria, Yemen, Saudi Arabia etc, talks about the negative consequences to the region and the US. Because it is Rand talking, it contains the rubbish idea that the the failed invasion of Syria is a civil war that is related to the ancient wars between Sunni and Shia.

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sen-...dical-jihadism

    I was going to bold some points he made but nothing was new or really stood out to me from the article.
    Surely you understand he is trying to talk to Fox News viewers here who are fed a diet of neo-conservatism.

  5. #4

  6. #5
    Stop arming radical jihadism
    By Sen. Rand Paul

    The Middle East is a hot cauldron continually threatening to boil over.

    It is a mistake to funnel arms into centuries-old conflicts.

    There is no great certainty that the arms we send into the Middle East will not one day be used against our soldiers. In fact, there is a real threat that someday our young soldiers will be sent to fight against the very weapons Congress sends today.
    ...
    Proliferating arms in the midst of chaos is a recipe for disaster. It’s hard to argue that sending arms into Libya or Syria advanced liberty in any way.

    Dreamers often longingly speak of a peace plan for the Middle East. Maybe we should consider a peace plan that doesn’t include dumping more arms into a region aflame in civil unrest, civil war and anarchy.
    ...
    The Saudis and their Gulf allies spend eight times more than Iran on weapons.

    What are the Saudis doing with all these weapons?

    Bombing civilians in Yemen, for one. The Saudis, with our bombs and our refueling planes, bombed a funeral procession, wounding over 400 and killing 150. Last year, Saudi bombs killed 40 children on a school bus.

    The Saudis with our support have blockaded Hodeidah, a port necessary to import food to a starving population. As a consequence of the Yemeni civil war, 17 million people face starvation.

    In addition, the Saudis indiscriminately fed arms into the Syrian civil war. Even Hillary Clinton admitted in an email to John Podesta: “We need to use our diplomatic and more traditional intelligence assets to bring pressure on the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which are providing clandestine financial and logistic support to Isis and other radical groups in the region.”

    Let’s repeat that so no one misses the point. Hillary Clinton admitted that Qatar and Saudi Arabia were funding and arming ISIS!

    Hillary Clinton further sent another State Department cable in December 2009 that read “Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaeda [and] the Taliban . . .”

    As Patrick Cockburn concludes, the emails reveal “the State Department and US intelligence clearly had no doubt that Saudi Arabia and Qatar were funding Isis.”

    To add insult to injury, there are now reports of the Saudi-led coalition giving American weapons to Al Qaeda-linked fighters in Yemen, hardline Salafist militias – anyone willing to fight the Houthis.

    So, on the one hand, Al Qaeda is the enemy that attacked us on 9/11, and on the other hand, we are told to turn a blind eye to U.S. arms going to Qatar and Saudi Arabia and winding up in the hands of ISIS!

    What sane person would sell arms to a regime that kills, tortures and imprisons dissidents?

    The Saudis routinely behead and crucify their opponents. Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr was executed, and his nephew sits on death row accused of sending texts to encourage people to attend a protest rally.

    Since the 1980s, the Saudis are estimated to have spent $100 billion exporting a radical jihadism that preaches hatred of Jews, Christians, and Hindus.

    The Saudis fund tens of thousands of madrassas teaching hatred and violence against the West. At one of these madrassas, it is said that 80 percent of the students join the Taliban to fight the Americans.

    What sane person would give such people nuclear technology?

    News reports reveal that the administration authorized giving U.S. nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia weeks after Jamal Khashoggi’s murder.

    More nuclear technology was approved even after the CIA concluded that Saudi Arabia’s crown prince ordered the assassination.

    One cannot overstate the calamity that awaits the Middle East, and perhaps the world, if Saudi Arabia should misuse “peaceful” nuclear technology in pursuit of nuclear weapons.
    ...
    Thursday’s vote is not directly about selling arms to Saudi Arabia, but indirectly the vote is about the wisdom of proliferating arms in the Middle East.

    Thursday’s vote is specifically about disapproving U.S. arms sales to Qatar and Bahrain.

    First, Qatar.

    Is Qatar a good actor in the Middle East?

    There are dozens of reports that U.S. weapons sold to Qatar wound up in the hands of al-Nusra and even ISIS. Additionally, Qatar has been linked to support for Hamas.

    Former Undersecretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence, David Cohen, has said: “Qatar, a longtime U.S. ally, has for many years openly financed Hamas. ...” Cohen also noted that Qatar allows fundraisers to solicit donations for Al Qaeda and ISIS.

    Many sources claim that Qatar has provided safe haven for Al Qaeda leadership.

    Qatar is so distrusted that even the bone-saw-wielding Saudis think that it’s unwise to sell arms to Qatar.

    The Saudis, no strangers to supporting terrorism, cut diplomatic relations with Qatar over allegations that Qatar was supporting terrorism.

    In the chaotic aftermath of the United States overthrowing Muammar Qaddafi in Libya, Qatar arms the Islamist-leaning factions, while Egypt and the UAE arm the other side.

    No one disputes that Qatar has armed Al Qaeda and other radical groups throughout the Middle East.

    How much of a risk is it to sell arms to Qatar? Only time will tell.

    Thursday’s vote will also address selling arms to Bahrain.

    Some will maintain that we have to sell them arms because they let us use their country as a naval base.

    That’s one way of looking at it.

    Another view, though, might consider that Bahrain has 4,000 political prisoners.

    Bahrain bans political opposition parties. Opposition leader Sheikh Ali Salman is imprisoned for life. A student leader was sentenced to death for protesting government policy. Nabeel Rajab was given five years in prison for exposing and tweeting about torture in Bahraini prisons. Famous Bahraini football player Hakeem Al-Araibi was arrested on his honeymoon in Thailand and held for 76 days until international pressure secured his release.

    In January, prominent Shiite cleric Sayed Majeed Al-Meshaal was arrested for criticizing extrajudicial killings by the Bahraini government.

    Should we send offensive weapons to a regime that uses violence to quell political dissent?

    Should we send offensive weapons to a regime that is waging a war against civilians in Yemen?

    Should we send offensive weapons to a regime that tortures and unjustly imprisons and outlaws its political opponents?

    The facts are not contested. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Bahrain have allowed U.S. arms to be funneled to radical Islamist groups throughout the Middle East.

    Dumping more weapons into the Middle East won’t get us any closer to peace.

    This week the Senate will vote on a pair of resolutions that would put a halt on future weapons sales to Bahrain and Qatar. I hope that every senator will vote to support S.J. Res. 20 and 26 which would stop the arms race. I strongly urge all my colleagues to vote “Yes.” Dumping more weapons into the Middle East won’t get us any closer to peace.

    A “yes” vote is a vote for sanity.

    A “yes” vote is a vote to quit sending arms to human rights abusers.

    A “yes” vote is a vote against aiding and abetting the Saudi-led war in Yemen.

    A “yes” vote is a vote for finally restoring Congress’ proper role as a check on executive power.

    Our Founding Fathers were wary of granting presidents too much power.

    James Madison wrote that the executive is the branch of government “most prone” to war. Therefore, the Constitution, “with studied care,” granted the power to declare war to Congress.

    I urge a “yes” vote to help restore a semblance of the Separation of Powers necessary to preserve our great republic.
    ...
    More: https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sen-...dical-jihadism
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6

  8. #7
    Lest anyone forget what group the radical terrorists belong to:

    Qatar and Saudi Arabia top the list.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    Is Rand accusing Trump's business partners of being crazy?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Is Rand accusing Trump's business partners of being crazy?
    No, they just fund the crazies...

    Meanwhile, people like Hannity will tell their naive, ignorant listeners on a daily basis that it is Shia Muslims that are the bad ones (in Iran). As long as people don’t know the difference between Shia, Sunni and Wahhabi/Salafi Sunni, the listeners can be fooled. One might ask, is Sean Hannity on the Saudi payroll?
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #10
    I think we should sell weapons to anyone who wants them including the Saudis AND the Houthis, we should just require the weapons manufacturers to not sell our best weapons to other countries and to alter the designs of sensitive systems to avoid compromising national security.

    The only other ethical stances are to only sell weapons to those who can be trusted with them (our government does a terrible job pretending to do that and it may be impossible) or to sell them to no foreigners at all. (but that hampers your ability to maintain a cutting edge defensive weapons industry)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I think we should sell weapons to anyone who wants them including the Saudis AND the Houthis, we should just require the weapons manufacturers to not sell our best weapons to other countries and to alter the designs of sensitive systems to avoid compromising national security.

    The only other ethical stances are to only sell weapons to those who can be trusted with them (our government does a terrible job pretending to do that and it may be impossible) or to sell them to no foreigners at all. (but that hampers your ability to maintain a cutting edge defensive weapons industry)
    Yeah the idea though is those weapons have gone to our enemy (ISIS) and have been used against us. I know its good to know your enemy but in this case I thnk we are our own worst enemy.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I think we should sell weapons to anyone who wants them including the Saudis AND the Houthis, we should just require the weapons manufacturers to not sell our best weapons to other countries and to alter the designs of sensitive systems to avoid compromising national security.

    The only other ethical stances are to only sell weapons to those who can be trusted with them (our government does a terrible job pretending to do that and it may be impossible) or to sell them to no foreigners at all. (but that hampers your ability to maintain a cutting edge defensive weapons industry)
    High tech aircraft should have a built in ability to be disabled should it be used against our military.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Yeah the idea though is those weapons have gone to our enemy (ISIS) and have been used against us. I know its good to know your enemy but in this case I thnk we are our own worst enemy.
    But it is like the argument against gun control, wouldn't they be able to get weapons from someone else?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    High tech aircraft should have a built in ability to be disabled should it be used against our military.
    That sounds like a good idea for any advanced weapons we sell.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But it is like the argument against gun control, wouldn't they be able to get weapons from someone else?
    Even Saudi Arabia won't sell weapons to these countries.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Even Saudi Arabia won't sell weapons to these countries.
    What about the black market?
    Or China?

    What if "international consensus" is used to keep the better side of a conflict from buying weapons?

    I don't like weapons control in any form except for indiscriminate weapons of mass destruction like nukes or bio-weapons.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What about the black market?
    Or China?

    What if "international consensus" is used to keep the better side of a conflict from buying weapons?

    I don't like weapons control in any form except for indiscriminate weapons of mass destruction like nukes or bio-weapons.
    Yeah but they are arming ISIS. It's like we are arming ISIS, this is why Saudi Arabia doesn't do it. Should we sell weapons to all of our enemies as long as they are not WMD?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Yeah but they are arming ISIS. It's like we are arming ISIS, this is why Saudi Arabia doesn't do it. Should we sell weapons to all of our enemies as long as they are not WMD?
    How much do you trust government to make the right choices about who to sell weapons to?
    How good is their track record?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    How much do you trust government to make the right choices about who to sell weapons to?
    How good is their track record?
    I guess its a good business model, sell a bunch of weapons to Saudi Arabia's enemies and then Saudi Arabia has to buy bigger weapons from you. LOL



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