Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 56

Thread: Propaganda Is The Root Of All Our Problems

  1. #1

    Propaganda Is The Root Of All Our Problems

    Propaganda Is The Root Of All Our Problems

    A new article by Forbes reports that the CEO of Crowdstrike, the extremely shady cybersecurity corporation which was foundational in the construction of the official CIA/CNN Russian hacking narrative, is now a billionaire.

    George Kurtz ascended to the billionaire rankings on the back of soaring stocks immediately after the company went public, carried no doubt on the winds of the international fame it gained from its central protagonistic role in the most well-known hacking news story of all time. A loyal servant of empire well-rewarded.

    Never mind that US government insiders like Hillary Clinton had been prepping for escalations against Russia well in advance of the 2016 elections, and that their preexisting agendas to shove a geostrategic obstacle off the world stage benefitted from the hacking narrative as much as George Kurtz did.

    Never mind that Crowdstrike is tied to the NATO narrative management firm known as the Atlantic Council, which receives funding from the US government, the EU, NATO, Gulf states and powerful international oligarchs. Never mind either that Crowdstrike was financed with a whopping $100 million from Google, which has had a cozy relationship with US intelligence agencies since its very inception.

    Never mind that to this day the DNC servers have not been examined by the FBI, nor indeed were they examined by the Special Counsel of Robert “Iraq has WMD” Mueller, preferring instead to go with the analyses of this extremely shady outfit with extensive and well-documented ties with the oligarchic leaders of the US-centralized empire. Also never mind that the Crowdstrike analyst who led forensics on those DNC servers had in fact worked for and was promoted by Robert Mueller while the two were in the FBI.

    As I never tire of saying, the real underlying currency in our world is not gold, nor bureaucratic fiat, nor even raw military might. The real underlying currency of our world is narrative, and the ability to control it.

    As soon as you really grok this dynamic, you start noticing it everywhere. George Kurtz is one clear example today of narrative control’s central role in the maintenance and expansion of existing power structures, as well as an illustration of how the empire is wired to reward those who advance pro-empire narratives and punish those who damage them; just compare how he’s doing to how Julian Assange is doing, for example.

    But you see examples pop up every day:

    The US State Department just got busted using a $1.5 million troll farm to manipulate public discourse on social media about Iran.

    Video footage has just surfaced of the OPCW Director General admitting that the OPCW did indeed deliberately omit any mention in its official findings of a report from its own investigation which contradicts the establishment narrative about a chemical strike in Douma, Syria, an admission which answers controversial questions asked by critics of western imperialism like myself, and which the mainstream media have not so much as touched.

    Mintpress News broke a story the other day about a new narrative management operation known as “The Trust Project”, a coordinated campaign by establishment-friendly mass media outlets for “gaming search-engine and social-media algorithms in collusion with major tech companies like Google and Twitter.”

    In a new interview with The Canary, UN Special Rapporteur on torture Nils Melzer explicitly named the mass media as largely responsible for Assange’s psychological torture, excoriating them for the way that they “have shown a remarkable lack of critical independence and have contributed significantly to spreading abusive and deliberately distorted narratives about Mr Assange.”

    In a new essay called “Freeing Julian Assange”, journalist Suzie Dawson reports that “Countless articles appear to have been obliterated from the internet” about Assange and WikiLeaks, amounting to some 90 percent of the links Dawson examined which were shared in tweets by or about WikiLeaks and Assange since 2010.

    I just finished reading this excellent Swiss Propaganda Research essay about the little-known fact that “most of the international news coverage in Western media is provided by only three global news agencies based in New York, London and Paris.”

    Any one of these could have a full-length Caitlin Johnstone essay written about it. I write about this stuff for a living, and even I don’t have the time or energy to write full articles about every single narrative control tool that the US-centralized empire has been implementing into its arsenal. There are too damn many of them emerging too damn fast, because they’re just that damn crucial for maintaining existing power structures.

    Because whoever controls the narrative controls the world.

    Power used to be much easier to identify in our society: just look for the fellow with the sparkly hat made of gold sitting in a really big chair and bossing everyone around. As our society advanced philosophically, however, people began to tire of having every aspect of their society determined by some schmuck in a golden hat, and started fighting for ideals called “freedom” and “democracy” in their respective nations. And, as far as our parents and teachers have taught us, freedom and democracy are exactly what we have now.

    Except that’s all crap. Freedom and democracy only exist within the western empire to the extent that it keeps up appearances. Because the trouble with democracy, it turns out, is that human minds are very hackable, as long as you’ve got the resources. Wealthy and powerful people do have the resources, which means that it’s very possible for wealthy and powerful people to manipulate the masses into voting in a way that consistently benefits the wealthy and powerful. This is why billionaires and narrative control consistently go hand-in-hand.

    This dynamic has allowed for western power structures to operate in a way that western democracy was explicitly designed to prevent: for the benefit of the powerful instead of for the benefit of the voting populace. So now we’ve got people in so-called liberal democracies voting to maintain governments which advance wars which don’t benefit them, to advance intrusive surveillance and police state policies which oppress them, to advance austerity policies which harm them, to advance labor policies which exploit them, and to maintain ecocidal environmental policies which threaten the very survival of our species. All because the wealthy and powerful are able to use their wealth and power to manipulate the way people think and vote.

    This is why I pay far more attention in my work to narrative control than to politics. Politics is downstream from narrative control, which is why the 2020 US presidential race is already a contest to see what level of Democratic corporatist warmonger will be running against the incumbent Republican corporatist warmonger. The narrative-controlling class does its level best to hide the fact that anything’s fundamentally wrong with the system, then when people notice it’s deeply broken they encourage them to use completely impotent tools to fix it. “Don’t like how things are run? Here, vote for our other puppet!”

    The root of all our problems right now is the fact that human minds are very hackable with enough resources, combined with the fact that war, oppression, exploitation and ecocide are highly profitable. This dynamic has caused human collective consciousness to generally dead-end into a kind of propagandized, zombified state in which all our knowledge and all our thinking moves in alignment with the agendas of existing power structures. It’s much easier to continue believing the official narratives than to sort through everything you’ve been told about your society, your nation and your world since grade school and work out what’s true and what’s false. Many don’t have the time. Many more don’t have the courage.

    We will remain in this collective dead-end, hurtling toward either Orwellian dystopia or extinction via climate collapse or nuclear armageddon, until we find a way out of it. It won’t come from the tools our rulers have given us, and it won’t come from repeating any of the old patterns which got us here. In order to escape from the increasingly adept narrative control matrix that is being built around our collective mind by the powerful, we’re going to have to change our relationship with narrative altogether. We will either pass this great test or we will fail it, and we absolutely have the freedom to go either way.
    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/p...s-3209ab8650a4
    "Everything secret degenerates, even the administration of justice;
    nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity." -- Lord Acton

    "What a state of society is this
    in which freethinker is a term of abuse,
    and in which doubt is regarded as sin?" -- William Winwood Reade



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    We will remain in this collective dead-end, hurtling toward either Orwellian dystopia or extinction via climate collapse or nuclear armageddon, until we find a way out of it. It won’t come from the tools our rulers have given us, and it won’t come from repeating any of the old patterns which got us here. In order to escape from the increasingly adept narrative control matrix that is being built around our collective mind by the powerful, we’re going to have to change our relationship with narrative altogether. We will either pass this great test or we will fail it, and we absolutely have the freedom to go either way.
    Good article and opinion expect someone forget that these same TPTB also use immigration as a tool

  4. #3
    Well its not like propaganda is going anywhere. Propaganda has been around for a very long time. Theres no way you're ever going to get rid of it. Defeat it yes but not outright kill it.
    Last edited by Anti Globalist; 06-14-2019 at 08:50 AM.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  5. #4
    Thank you Edward Bernays!
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  6. #5
    I was going to post this article myself, since it has a lot of bearing on what's been happening here. +rep to the OP. It's very obvious that RPF has been the victim of a propaganda campaign by TPTB and trump (which are the same thing), with one account posting over 36 times a day, far more than even the most prolific genuine Ron Paul supporter here, racking up more posts in 3 years than the most prolific posters have in over a decade. For those that don't belive this is really happening, that TPTB / trump is attempting to spread propaganda here, I refer to an article linked in the OP's article, that confirms this online propaganda campaign:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8954191.html

    government-funded troll campaign that has targeted American citizens critical of the administration’s hardline Iran policy and accused critics of being loyal to the Tehran regime.
    Here, anyone critical of trump is called a "socialist", "demoncrat", communist", etc.

    Critics in Washington have gone further, saying that the programme resembled the type of troll farms used by autocratic regimes abroad.

    "It's completely unacceptable that American taxpayer dollars supported a project that attacked Americans and others who are critical of the Trump administration's policy of escalation and conflict with Iran,” a senior Congressional aide told The Independent, on condition of anonymity.

    This is something that happens in authoritarian regimes, not democracies.”
    One woman behind the harassment campaign, a longtime Iranian-American activist, has received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the State Department
    No wonder that the person posting 36+ times a day here, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, doesn't seem to have time to do things like have friends or family, or any apparent way to make a living. Those 36+ posts a day are making them a very good living, indeed!

    A spokeswoman for the State Department told reporters on Monday that funding for the “Iran Disinformation Project” had been suspended and is under review after it was reported that it went beyond the scope of its mandate by veering from countering propaganda from Iran to smearing domestic critics of White House policy.

    State Department officials disclosed to lawmakers they had granted $1.5 million for Iran Disinfo, which repeatedly targeted, harassed and smeared critics of Trump’s tough stance against Iran on social media.

    Among those targeted were American activists, scholars, and journalists who challenged the Trump administration’s “maximum pressure campaign” against Iran.
    Remember that that $1.5million was just for one propaganda campaign concerning one issue. How much is the government spending to target activists here? RPF is (or was, before this propaganda campaign started) full of activists that presented a threat to TPTB on a wide scope of issues, rather than just one. How many activists here have been discouraged and left due to the constant barrage of attacks? How many more have been suckered in by the propaganda? One member here has spent over a decade railing against the police state and now advocates for having the government police culture, and that's just one example. And if anyone thinks that RPF is somehow not a threat to trump / TPTB, remember that at one time, RPF was successful in getting more and more Ron Paul supporters elected that would oppose the policies of trump / TPTB. That sort of organized opposition on that level represents a huge threat, and trump / TPTB simply could not afford to ignore it.

    Seeking evidence that its policies were working and popular, the administration has relied an unconventional information sources, often citing obscure right-wing news outlets and think tanks.
    Has anyone else wondered how that 36+ posts a day poster is able to come up with so many obscure articles that lionize trump and his policies, and smear those that are a threat to trump / TPTB? An excellent recent example of this is the propaganda campaign against Amash, and the repeated posting of some obscure editorial (which means it's one person's opinion) and some sort of challenge to refute it. It's obvious that the propaganda being pushed here is a team effort, since no one person acting alone would have time to find and read all those obscure sources, have any time with friends and family, and have time to make a living, and still manage to make 36+ posts a day here, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

    Some have said the harassment campaign resembles those launched by the Iranian regime against its critics, as well as clandestine troll farms run by Russia, Saudi Arabia, and other autocracies in attempts to shape online debate and intimidate critics.
    And here is the underlying goal. The evidence is readily obvious here, just look at how things have changed in the last 3 years with those 36+ posts a day. Immigration has always been debated here from the very beginning of RPF, between the open and closed border type libertarians. But that debate and discussion has always been about how open or closed the borders are, never about immigrants themselves, and there was never any talk about turning our country into east germany or north korea to implement immigration policy. It would have been unthinkable 3 years ago that people would be arguing for voter suppression here, any discussion on this topic was always about how those voting for Ron Paul were being suppressed. And those are just two recent examples of how much effect the propaganda has had here.

    So, given that this propaganda here and it's effects is so incredibly obvious, my question is this: Why do the site owners and mods allow it to continue? We are told that it is somehow necessary to keep our debating skills sharp. I call BS. It's obvious that most of the moderator staff quit over some sort of directive to allow the propaganda and ignore the blatent violations of forum rules by that person making 36+ posts a day. Just about all of those older mods aren't even here anymore, and any former mods still active here have only given vague evasions of the question when asked privately why they quit their position as moderators here. How does being outshouted by 36+ posts a day keep anyone's debating skills sharp? What possible value does it hold to debate anyone who is paid to simply outshout you and call you names? I feel very strongly that the site owners have a LOT of explaning to do. There isn't any rational justification for allowing this propaganda here, and it's obvious that it is being fully sanctioned by the site owners. The question is, WHY? Why would the very owners of RPF sell out Ron Paul and his supporters like this? It sure isn't to better anyone's debating skills.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    I was going to post this article myself, since it has a lot of bearing on what's been happening here. +rep to the OP. It's very obvious that RPF has been the victim of a propaganda campaign by TPTB and trump (which are the same thing), with one account posting over 36 times a day, far more than even the most prolific genuine Ron Paul supporter here, racking up more posts in 3 years than the most prolific posters have in over a decade. For those that don't belive this is really happening, that TPTB / trump is attempting to spread propaganda here, I refer to an article linked in the OP's article, that confirms this online propaganda campaign:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8954191.html


    Here, anyone critical of trump is called a "socialist", "demoncrat", communist", etc.




    No wonder that the person posting 36+ times a day here, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, doesn't seem to have time to do things like have friends or family, or any apparent way to make a living. Those 36+ posts a day are making them a very good living, indeed!


    Remember that that $1.5million was just for one propaganda campaign concerning one issue. How much is the government spending to target activists here? RPF is (or was, before this propaganda campaign started) full of activists that presented a threat to TPTB on a wide scope of issues, rather than just one. How many activists here have been discouraged and left due to the constant barrage of attacks? How many more have been suckered in by the propaganda? One member here has spent over a decade railing against the police state and now advocates for having the government police culture, and that's just one example. And if anyone thinks that RPF is somehow not a threat to trump / TPTB, remember that at one time, RPF was successful in getting more and more Ron Paul supporters elected that would oppose the policies of trump / TPTB. That sort of organized opposition on that level represents a huge threat, and trump / TPTB simply could not afford to ignore it.


    Has anyone else wondered how that 36+ posts a day poster is able to come up with so many obscure articles that lionize trump and his policies, and smear those that are a threat to trump / TPTB? An excellent recent example of this is the propaganda campaign against Amash, and the repeated posting of some obscure editorial (which means it's one person's opinion) and some sort of challenge to refute it. It's obvious that the propaganda being pushed here is a team effort, since no one person acting alone would have time to find and read all those obscure sources, have any time with friends and family, and have time to make a living, and still manage to make 36+ posts a day here, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.


    And here is the underlying goal. The evidence is readily obvious here, just look at how things have changed in the last 3 years with those 36+ posts a day. Immigration has always been debated here from the very beginning of RPF, between the open and closed border type libertarians. But that debate and discussion has always been about how open or closed the borders are, never about immigrants themselves, and there was never any talk about turning our country into east germany or north korea to implement immigration policy. It would have been unthinkable 3 years ago that people would be arguing for voter suppression here, any discussion on this topic was always about how those voting for Ron Paul were being suppressed. And those are just two recent examples of how much effect the propaganda has had here.

    So, given that this propaganda here and it's effects is so incredibly obvious, my question is this: Why do the site owners and mods allow it to continue? We are told that it is somehow necessary to keep our debating skills sharp. I call BS. It's obvious that most of the moderator staff quit over some sort of directive to allow the propaganda and ignore the blatent violations of forum rules by that person making 36+ posts a day. Just about all of those older mods aren't even here anymore, and any former mods still active here have only given vague evasions of the question when asked privately why they quit their position as moderators here. How does being outshouted by 36+ posts a day keep anyone's debating skills sharp? What possible value does it hold to debate anyone who is paid to simply outshout you and call you names? I feel very strongly that the site owners have a LOT of explaning to do. There isn't any rational justification for allowing this propaganda here, and it's obvious that it is being fully sanctioned by the site owners. The question is, WHY? Why would the very owners of RPF sell out Ron Paul and his supporters like this? It sure isn't to better anyone's debating skills.
    You're right, I should listen to CNN more
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    You're right, I should listen to CNN more
    False choice fallacy much?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  9. #8
    https://www.niemanlab.org/2018/06/de...st-all-biased/

    Democrats see most news outlets as unbiased. Republicans think they’re almost all biased.

    Republicans think that almost every news outlet is biased, except for Fox News and The Wall Street Journal. Two reports this week from Knight — one on Americans’ concerns about media bias, the other on misinformation. One thing that stands out from the latter report is that Americans believe a staggeringly large percentage of the news they see is “misinformation”: “On average, Americans estimate that 39 percent of the news they see on television, read in newspapers or hear on the radio is misinformation. They believe nearly two-thirds of the news they see on social media — 65 percent — is made up or cannot be verified as accurate. (Gallup/Knight defined misinformation as “stories that are made up or cannot be verified as accurate but are presented to readers as if they are accurate.”)

    These averages are driven by people who identify as Republicans or conservatives:



    In addition, “[College graduates] estimate far less misinformation on television, on the radio and in newspapers than do those with a high school education or less (29% vs. 43%).”

    This finding echoes other recent research.

    Knight also calculated “net bias” scores for news organizations: “the percentage who see each as ‘not biased at all’ or ‘not very biased’ minus the percentage who see each as ‘extremely biased’ or ‘very biased.’ On this measure, positive scores indicate that more people consider the news source unbiased than biased, and negative scores mean more people consider it biased than unbiased. Here’s the overall:



    But check out the differences between Democrats (left) and Republicans (right):



    “Democrats, including Democratic-leaning independents, tend to see most news organizations as unbiased, except for Fox News, Breitbart News, Mother Jones, the Huffington Post, and Vox,” the authors write. “Republicans, including Republican-leaning independents, tend to see all news organizations as biased. The two exceptions are Fox
    News and The Wall Street Journal.”

    I’m wondering a bit about Knight’s definition of “bias,” which is “news organizations reporting stories in a way that unfairly favors one person or group over another, even if the facts reported are accurate.” Like, how does unfairness play into people’s rankings here, versus thinking that the sites are actually reporting inaccurate information? How much do people’s memories of Huffington Post as led by Arianna Huffington carry over? What’s with the Vox rankings, and how many of the respondents here actually know what Vox is? (Earlier in the report, the authors note, “The
    internet-only sites Breitbart News, the Huffington Post and Vox, get lower accuracy ratings, but to a large degree, that reflects lower familiarity with them.”)

    The reports surveyed 1,440 people from the Gallup Panel of U.S. adults; it’s part of broader Knight research on Americans’ views of the media, and that research will continue through July.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    You're right, I should listen to CNN more
    Even better, turn off your tv entirely.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  12. #10
    Respectfully, I disagree with the statement of the OP, but not fully disagree.

    Propaganda is a major part of our problems, but not the only problem. Elites need an iron clad grip on three foundations in order to rule with meaningful power. Belief, Money, and Violence. Propaganda serves the Monopoly on Belief, but, Belief is only ONE OF THREE things they need. Belief is used to control the power of the other two Monopolies; those of Money and Violence by saying that the Money is Lawful, and that any Violence they enact against less powerful groups is Authorized and Moral. Propaganda is also balanced out with the other two Monopolies for if Belief starts doing what they do not want it to do, they use Money to control Belief, and if things get too out of hand, then they enact Violence against Belief.

    Propaganda / Belief is a weapon against the people and used to control the individuals who work for the other two branches.

    Our message of Liberty has reached everyone. That does not mean that everyone who has heard our message has chosen to support Liberty. Most of those who have would choose Liberty over what we are headed towards, except the influences of Belief, Money, and Violence have enacted a system of resisting our messages.

    For example, take a True Libertarian. That Libertarian is given an order by their boss to write up another person who is disrupting their system. If the Libertarian disobeys, they just get rid of the Libertarian and their assigned target. If the Libertarian obeys their immoral order, despite being Libertarian, the message dies.

    We need a way to mount a more meaningful resistance to Tyranny, and the only way to do that is to understand the methods by which they control and kill us.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  13. #11
    Yeah, that's not a bad example of how they work the propaganda. Humans are mostly herd animals, and propagandists are sheep dogs. Divide and conquer. College graduates buy the bull, and you want to appear educated, right? Democrats buy the bull, and you don't want to sound like a Republican, right? Dubya couldn't even put together a coherent sentence, remember? You don't want to sound like him, so buy the bull. Now we'll lop off the outliers and look at the data again. Lone wolves may be the only ones who know the truth, but isn't sticking with the herd more important? So we'll just say lopping them off the edges improves the data.

    Here's a fine example of the 'Safety In Numbers' propaganda the populace is bombarded with daily:

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, let's make libertarianism completely irrelevant and ensure a communist dictatorship.

    The GOP is moving our direction and we can't have that so now is the perfect time to make them hate us and never listen to us for at least a generation at which point the invasion will be complete and we will all be running from an all powerful intelligence state enabled by overwhelming numbers.

    A classic example. It all seems like such a reasonable little piece of sarcasm to hear thirty-six times a day, seven days a week. Be effective! Stick to your half of the herd! Don't be a voice calling in the wilderness! That's frustrating and depressing!

    Of course, it could also be rephrased as follows:

    Don't go out on a limb. This is no time for principle. Only a lone wolf can lead the herd a completely new direction, but it's too hard to get the herd to follow, so keep going the wrong direction with the herd, and maybe you can slow them down a little. Take it on faith that the herd cannot go the right direction, stay in your lane, keep your Safety In Numbers, and pat yourself on the back for dragging your feet a little.

    That is the Propaganda Message tailored for us. I just stripped a little varnish off of it.

    For, you see, there is an important component in this propaganda that this thread has so far ignored. The propagandists know we need to be proactive. And an important part of their game is to keep us busy with Proactive Uselessness.

    Liberals are easy. They have a seemingly infinite capacity for demanding that the ever-increasing problems created by more government be addressed by even more government. No wonder conservatives laugh at them. Unfortunately, conservatives cannot laugh at themselves.

    That's a shame, because conservatives are comedy gold. For example, here we have someone who was there throughout two full campaigns of He Who Must Not Be Named:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    There is this conspiracy hypothesis that Trump is the secret, 100% establishment backed shill. While willing to entertain that hypothesis, I see no evidence of that being true.

    What I see is a candidate and POTUS that the leftist establishment media supported in the primary because they were throwing a bomb into the GOP primary. They wanted maximum destruction, and it worked better than they could have anticipated, the entire GOP field was decimated. Then, it was time to for them to smear Trump non-stop, and in their eyes, easily drive Hillary to victory. But the non-stop attacks had the opposite effect. They could not create the reality they wanted, no matter how hard they smeared and produced phony polls. Voters just got mad at the media, as the media revealed themselves as biased, deceptive, shameless propagandists.

    For the neoconservatives, they fought Trump tooth and nail right from the start. Cruz was their last hope after Jeb went down hard. Then after the primary, they switched to neutral or the Hillary camp, Bill Kristol being a prime example.

    After elected, Trump is sitting there with a few advisors, with no idea who to appoint. The establishment had many suggestions for him, and slowly took over. Trump, being naive and easily manipulated, ended up with neoconservatives, who are experts at infiltration and manipulation.

    The establishment still hates him, but he has become a somewhat a useful idiot for the neoconservatives. But they do not like that Trump is not consistent or reliable. They can get him to say something one day, and he may say the opposite the next day. He may even over-ride them at crucial moments. Not what the establishment or neoconservatives like in a front man.
    This is a nice regurgitation of the narrative spoon fed to us all. And where did he get this narrative? Why, he got it--every word of it--from the exact same mainstream media that told us the names of the candidates who came in first, third and fourth in the Iowa Republican Caucus.

    An extra-special touch is dismissing the glaringly obvious as a "conspiracy theory". Now there's a fine MSM propaganda tool being put to good use. So, is The Last Moderator a tool or a fool? He could be either. The Proactive Uselessness Program is very effective at turning fools into tools.

    Now what kind of Black Magic causes a guy who knows actual anti-establishment candidates Must Not Be Named, who knows that The Propaganda Machine pretended to hate every establishment Republican of the last forty years, to think this guy who got nonstop publicity 24/7 for a year prior to the 2016 election (and used to be a Democrat, and had the Clintons at his wedding, and on and on) could possibly be anti-establishment?

    It's the Proactive Uselessness Component. That is the smart new twist that they figure will make the New Soviet America more successful than the USSR. The USSR killed the spirits of the entire nation. But our new, improved overlords figure they can keep us striving for their benefit forever by letting us be always proactive, even though our proactive efforts are always useless.

    If our half of The Herd can just always stick together and vote harder and harder for the people the media pretends to hate we can do some good. We can't do any good by trying to give horse race momentum to Those Who Must Not Be Named, because rallying behind such lone wolves is not something The Herd is capable of. And even if The Herd is capable of it, the propaganda machine will repeat over and over that The Herd cannot do it until they believe it.

    So why are conservatives willing to believe these artificial paths of proactive action could possibly do any good? Why are they willing to believe that the Prepackaged "Rebel" is anything but a figurehead, even after two long, hard campaigns for a genuine rebel who was never, ever mentioned at all? Simple. To believe anything else is too depressing.

    My dad had an expression. Do something, even if its wrong. Well, guess what. When a child falls on the subway tracks, that applies, because there's no time to think about our options. But voting for the Prepackaged "Rebel" getting the nonstop publicity isn't being proactive. It's fooling yourself into thinking you're doing something useful when you know you're just helping The Herd march itself off to the slaughterhouse. It's a way to avoid depression by fooling yourself. It makes you feel less depressed until you can no longer fool yourself into believing that path offers hope.

    In other words, it's just another self-serving, yet self-defeating sin.

    Proactive Uselessness is a prime ingredient in the new, improved propaganda war. And if you refuse to let yourself see that, you will become a tool of the devil. Just like an ever-growing percentage of this ever-shrinking forum.

    The most important lesson we learned from two campaigns by He Who Must Not Be Named, and the only message we could impart upon The Herd that could cause them to halt this madness, is this: Any candidate who gets any meaningful amount of publicity from this MSM is an enemy of We, the People. With an absentee owner, a lone moderator who can't or won't learn this lesson, and a paid spammer filling the place with the opposite message in the most obnoxiously repetitive manner possible, this place can never, ever again be part of the solution.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-16-2019 at 10:11 AM. Reason: They should rename autocorrect autoasterisk.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    There is this conspiracy hypothesis that Trump is the secret, 100% establishment backed shill. While willing to entertain that hypothesis, I see no evidence of that being true.

    What I see is a candidate and POTUS that the leftist establishment media supported in the primary because they were throwing a bomb into the GOP primary. They wanted maximum destruction, and it worked better than they could have anticipated, the entire GOP field was decimated. Then, it was time to for them to smear Trump non-stop, and in their eyes, easily drive Hillary to victory. But the non-stop attacks had the opposite effect. They could not create the reality they wanted, no matter how hard they smeared and produced phony polls. Voters just got mad at the media, as the media revealed themselves as biased, deceptive, shameless propagandists.

    For the neoconservatives, they fought Trump tooth and nail right from the start. Cruz was their last hope after Jeb went down hard. Then after the primary, they switched to neutral or the Hillary camp, Bill Kristol being a prime example.

    After elected, Trump is sitting there with a few advisors, with no idea who to appoint. The establishment had many suggestions for him, and slowly took over. Trump, being naive and easily manipulated, ended up with neoconservatives, who are experts at infiltration and manipulation.

    The establishment still hates him, but he has become a somewhat a useful idiot for the neoconservatives. But they do not like that Trump is not consistent or reliable. They can get him to say something one day, and he may say the opposite the next day. He may even over-ride them at crucial moments. Not what the establishment or neoconservatives like in a front man.
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    ...
    This is a nice regurgitation of the narrative spoon fed to us all. And where did he get this narrative? Why, he got it--every word of it--from the exact same mainstream media that told us the names of the candidates who came in first, third and fourth in the Iowa Republican Caucus.
    ...
    You have your hypothesis, I have mine. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you on every minute detail and opinion doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world (or a forum).

    Resorting to name calling is a poor substitute for real debate.

    Now what kind of Black Magic causes a guy who knows actual anti-establishment candidates Must Not Be Named, who knows that The Propaganda Machine pretended to hate every establishment Republican of the last forty years, to think this guy who got nonstop publicity 24/7 for a year prior to the 2016 election (and used to be a Democrat, and had the Clintons at his wedding, and on and on) could possibly be anti-establishment?
    My hypothesis is that the vast majority of the media were in the bag for Hillary. That explains many things, including early primary coverage, post primary general election coverage, and Russia-Gate coverage. As far as I know, the media has not publicized or admitted to this, so it would be hard to get this directly from the media.

    This in no way contradicts, denies or diminishes the fact that the media is always filtering and biasing, including ignoring candidates like Ron Paul and Tulsi Gabbard.

    And no, it did not seem that the media pretended to hate every past Republican candidate. They liked McCain, Romney, even to a certain extent the Bushes. What they have done since Trump became POTUS is a whole new level.

    Any candidate who gets any meaningful amount of publicity from this MSM is an enemy of We, the People.
    Agree, that is most usually the case. No one denies that as a generalization.

    My conspiracy hypothesis is that there was a loosely organized plan by many in the media (and DNC) to promote Trump during the primary, and tear him apart in the general. Both of those require actually covering him. The generalization does not apply in this case, due to the plot requiring coverage. Additionally, the media did enjoy the ratings that came from constant coverage. As much as they do have a political agenda, sometimes business is a factor.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Resorting to name calling is a poor substitute for real debate.
    So then why is it allowed to continue for 36+ posts a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year?
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    So then why is it allowed to continue for 36+ posts a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year?
    “Allowed”? It is rare when it is one sided. Shall we search for the very first instance of when member A insulted member B? There is no omnipresent police monitor of every post. This is not a sport with referees trying to watch every play for violations. Is there someone you would like banned? How many people should we ban to make RPF the perfect environment?
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    “Allowed”? It is rare when it is one sided. Shall we search for the very first instance of when member A insulted member B? There is no omnipresent police monitor of every post. This is not a sport with referees trying to watch every play for violations. Is there someone you would like banned? How many people should we ban to make RPF the perfect environment?
    A textbook example of exactly how it is allowed. Although such collectivist name calling is against the rules, it's simply ignored, and then when this is pointed out, it's always the same "play dumb" routine. The "perfect environment" isn't necessar, that comment is only a red herring.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    A textbook example of exactly how it is allowed. Although such collectivist name calling is against the rules, it's simply ignored, and then when this is pointed out, it's always the same "play dumb" routine. The "perfect environment" isn't necessar, that comment is only a red herring.
    Ah, so every time you have a complaint you want action taken. There’s always Twitter and Facebook. They are pretty good at that. Nothing like a complaint driven platform.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    A textbook example of exactly how it is allowed. Although such collectivist name calling is against the rules, it's simply ignored, and then when this is pointed out, it's always the same "play dumb" routine. The "perfect environment" isn't necessar, that comment is only a red herring.
    So you would rather not have this platform to cry on? This is the only other option from what you have here now... Without the whole package there will be no platform to cry on. It's not yours and it will die without the whole package

    Micromanage it like a millennial and it will die...
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    I was going to post this article myself, since it has a lot of bearing on what's been happening here. +rep to the OP. It's very obvious that RPF has been the victim of a propaganda campaign by TPTB and trump (which are the same thing), with one account posting over 36 times a day, far more than even the most prolific genuine Ron Paul supporter here, racking up more posts in 3 years than the most prolific posters have in over a decade. For those that don't belive this is really happening, that TPTB / trump is attempting to spread propaganda here, I refer to an article linked in the OP's article, that confirms this online propaganda campaign:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8954191.html

    Here, anyone critical of trump is called a "socialist", "demoncrat", communist", etc.

    No wonder that the person posting 36+ times a day here, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, doesn't seem to have time to do things like have friends or family, or any apparent way to make a living. Those 36+ posts a day are making them a very good living, indeed!

    Remember that that $1.5million was just for one propaganda campaign concerning one issue. How much is the government spending to target activists here? RPF is (or was, before this propaganda campaign started) full of activists that presented a threat to TPTB on a wide scope of issues, rather than just one. How many activists here have been discouraged and left due to the constant barrage of attacks? How many more have been suckered in by the propaganda? One member here has spent over a decade railing against the police state and now advocates for having the government police culture, and that's just one example. And if anyone thinks that RPF is somehow not a threat to trump / TPTB, remember that at one time, RPF was successful in getting more and more Ron Paul supporters elected that would oppose the policies of trump / TPTB. That sort of organized opposition on that level represents a huge threat, and trump / TPTB simply could not afford to ignore it.

    Has anyone else wondered how that 36+ posts a day poster is able to come up with so many obscure articles that lionize trump and his policies, and smear those that are a threat to trump / TPTB? An excellent recent example of this is the propaganda campaign against Amash, and the repeated posting of some obscure editorial (which means it's one person's opinion) and some sort of challenge to refute it. It's obvious that the propaganda being pushed here is a team effort, since no one person acting alone would have time to find and read all those obscure sources, have any time with friends and family, and have time to make a living, and still manage to make 36+ posts a day here, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

    And here is the underlying goal. The evidence is readily obvious here, just look at how things have changed in the last 3 years with those 36+ posts a day. Immigration has always been debated here from the very beginning of RPF, between the open and closed border type libertarians. But that debate and discussion has always been about how open or closed the borders are, never about immigrants themselves, and there was never any talk about turning our country into east germany or north korea to implement immigration policy. It would have been unthinkable 3 years ago that people would be arguing for voter suppression here, any discussion on this topic was always about how those voting for Ron Paul were being suppressed. And those are just two recent examples of how much effect the propaganda has had here.

    So, given that this propaganda here and it's effects is so incredibly obvious, my question is this: Why do the site owners and mods allow it to continue? We are told that it is somehow necessary to keep our debating skills sharp. I call BS. It's obvious that most of the moderator staff quit over some sort of directive to allow the propaganda and ignore the blatent violations of forum rules by that person making 36+ posts a day. Just about all of those older mods aren't even here anymore, and any former mods still active here have only given vague evasions of the question when asked privately why they quit their position as moderators here. How does being outshouted by 36+ posts a day keep anyone's debating skills sharp? What possible value does it hold to debate anyone who is paid to simply outshout you and call you names? I feel very strongly that the site owners have a LOT of explaning to do. There isn't any rational justification for allowing this propaganda here, and it's obvious that it is being fully sanctioned by the site owners. The question is, WHY? Why would the very owners of RPF sell out Ron Paul and his supporters like this? It sure isn't to better anyone's debating skills.
    Believe it or not, and you probably don’t, I didn’t even read that post from you. That’s how closely we keep an eye on everything.

    So we ban @Swordsmyth, @Anti Federalist, and who else? Trumpkins? Better ban @dannno too. @Danke for good measure (their names and opinions are similar). And really, if we want to vote on banning trolls, will probably have to ban @Zippyjuan too, as there seems to be consensus on that. We may need a thorough review of all accused members. An inquisition, so to speak.

    Secret directives? They must be so secret that I never heard about it. Guess @Bryan is the one you think owes you an explaination, unless the secret powers kept it from him too.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Believe it or not, and you probably don’t, I didn’t even read that post from you. That’s how closely we keep an eye on everything.

    So we ban @Swordsmyth, @Anti Federalist, and who else? Trumpkins? Better ban @dannno too. @Danke for good measure (their names and opinions are similar). And really, if we want to vote on banning trolls, will probably have to ban @Zippyjuan too, as there seems to be consensus on that. We may need a thorough review of all accused members. An inquisition, so to speak.

    Secret directives? They must be so secret that I never heard about it. Guess @Bryan is the one you think owes you an explaination, unless the secret powers kept it from him too.
    Tell you what... I am on several forums everyday of all factions and religions. I am gathering news at 2:30- 3:00 AM every morning as I start Coffee. This is the most open and "free speech" forum I have been on since the Daily Paul. This is to be greatly appreciated and respected. So... Who is Bryan? The Tex? lol

    It is owned by someone from Texas by the way...
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Tell you what... I am on several forums everyday of all factions and religions. I am gathering news at 2:30- 3:00 AM every morning as I start Coffee. This is the most open and "free speech" forum I have been on since the Daily Paul. This is to be greatly appreciated and respected. So... Who is Bryan? The Tex? lol

    It is owned by someone from Texas by the way...
    There is no truth to the rumor that @Danke is the secret puppet master. He is only temporarliy in charge when the team is on the private jet flying to meet with Soros, Adelson or Thiel.

    I can not confirm or deny anything about @TheTexan.

    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    There is no truth to the rumor that @Danke is the secret puppet master. He is only temporarliy in charge when the team is on the private jet flying to meet with Soros, Adelson or Thiel.

    I can not confirm or deny anything about @TheTexan.

    Lol... Danke creeps me out with his peeking around the monitor $#@!... lol

    And SOMEONE here from Texas owns this mess. It is logged with ICANN.
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Lol... Danke creeps me out with his peeking around the monitor $#@!... lol
    Just keeping an eye out on you guys for @Bryan, and make sure y'all don't steal anything here.
    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Believe it or not, and you probably don’t, I didn’t even read that post from you. That’s how closely we keep an eye on everything.

    So we ban @Swordsmyth, @Anti Federalist, and who else? Trumpkins? Better ban @dannno too. @Danke for good measure (their names and opinions are similar). And really, if we want to vote on banning trolls, will probably have to ban @Zippyjuan too, as there seems to be consensus on that. We may need a thorough review of all accused members. An inquisition, so to speak.

    Secret directives? They must be so secret that I never heard about it. Guess @Bryan is the one you think owes you an explaination, unless the secret powers kept it from him too.
    I'd just like to see the name calling & insults stopped.

    Some get tired of the constant insults & begin to fire back- this I can understand.
    There is no spoon.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Just keeping an eye out on you guys for @Bryan, and make sure y'all don't steal anything here.
    I could click on @Bryan to investigate more... But you know what... Out of respect I will just leave it alone and grab my harmonica and do some blues instead. lol

    If he wants to drop in he will...
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Better ban @dannno too. @Danke for good measure (their names and opinions are similar).
    That's like saying we all "look alike."

    Reported.
    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I'd just like to see the name calling & insults stopped.

    Some get tired of the constant insults & begin to fire back- this I can understand.
    The future of our grandchildren is a serious issue. Those who care only for themselves over the future of the prosperity of their offspring are against the future of man as a species. Let's talk anthropology brother...
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    That's like saying we all "look alike."

    Reported.
    Ban. I’m closing this thread.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Ban. I’m closing this thread.
    LOL!

    Some of my favorite discussions have been with members whom I don't always agree with but know how to have decent dialog.
    There is no spoon.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    That's like saying we all "look alike."

    Reported.
    We do... We stand on two feet longer at a time than any other primate.
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  34. #30
    Somewhat inappropriate line of thinking.

    Next 'follow the money' purists could start raising questions like 'who owns propaganda machines aka media'.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Is White House Root Cause of World problems?
    By final in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 05-25-2011, 08:23 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-28-2011, 07:00 PM
  3. Bolivian President: Capitalism is root of problems facing world
    By FrankRep in forum World News & Affairs
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-30-2010, 07:06 PM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-27-2010, 01:35 PM
  5. Conspiracy is the Root Cause of America's Problems
    By FrankRep in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-26-2009, 07:05 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •