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Thread: The State Department's War On Americans Against War On Iran

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Think of it this way, do you not use an umbrella when it rains because your legs still get wet while using it? ofc not, u understand that it greatly improves your situation. The same goes for self imposed socialism against imperialism

    Yes freedom is relative. A man being freed from prison into a socialist society is being freed even though he is going into a world with some freedom restrictions. So he may not advocate for maximum freedom that doesn't mean I should stop supporting what he fought for
    Socialism is responsible for more deaths than imperialism, it is by far the most evil form of government.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Socialism is responsible for more deaths than imperialism, it is by far the most evil form of government.
    How many people have socialism killed in Sweden? or Norway? (since both countries were founded) tell me? now compare that to the number of people killed by just the imperialist US this century alone, Death, destruction, displacement, destabilization is the name of the game for imperialism
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    How many people have socialism killed in Sweden? or Norway? (since both countries were founded) tell me? now compare that to the number of people killed by just the imperialist US this century alone, Death, destruction, displacement, destabilization is the name of the game for imperialism
    No I am talking about socialism not the nordic model. There are tons of problems in that system but thats a different debate.
    The Nordic Model The social welfare and economic systems adopted by Nordic countries. The Nordic model combines features of capitalism, such as a market economy and economic efficiency, with social benefits, such as state pensions and income distribution.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    The question I have for Rand is this, why was the sanctions there in the first place? They have IAEA inspectors checking them out and according to them, they have yet to violate the treaty.
    On this part of your post. It was about Rand taking a shot at democratic leadership because they were not bargaining from a position of strength. It was amateurish. Like buying a car and making no attempt to bring the price down.

    We have a NEW deal for you
    Continue doing what you're doing and we'll take off some sanctions after XX months.
    vs
    We're going to take some sanctions off now.
    go small or go home
    Taxation is Theft

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    No that was when the deal was being voted on. Now you are just being purposely dishonest.
    YOU ARE SO FREAKING STUPID! THE DEAL WAS NOT IMPLEMENTED PRIOR TO IT BEING VOTED ON!
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    No that guy was terrible I don't care if you think that his Avatar was anti war, he advocated for a nuclear war, he was a communist.
    You are too stupid to know what ad hominem means.

    ad hominem

    adj.
    Attacking a person's character or motivations rather than a position or argument.
    adj.
    Appealing to the emotions rather than to logic or reason.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 06-15-2019 at 06:59 PM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You are too stupid to know what ad hominem means.

    ad hominem

    adj.
    Attacking a person's character or motivations rather than a position or argument.
    adj.
    Appealing to the emotions rather than to logic or reason.
    LOL

  10. #38
    Back to the subject at hand:

    The US has been after Iran's resources since way before the 1953 coup brought on by the US & the Brits to get rid of Iran's democratically elected PM, because he dared to try to give Iran's oil back to the people.

    All the sanction BS has always been about Iran's oil & NOT that they are a danger to anyone around them. The deal made by Obama was one of the best things he did & lifted the heavy burdens of sanctions off the Iranians. Was it perfect? No. But it was definitely a step in the right direction.

    I knew that Trump was a NeoCon war monger from his campaign speeches about bad Iran & how the Nuke deal was the worst thing ever done. Plus his lying & saying that the US was "giving" Iran millions of dollars, when the money was part of what our gov had taken from Iran's accounts & was owed to them. Getting out of the deal & then sanctioning Iran, who was in complete compliance, is an act of war.
    There is no spoon.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Back to the subject at hand:

    The US has been after Iran's resources since way before the 1953 coup brought on by the US & the Brits to get rid of Iran's democratically elected PM, because he dared to try to give Iran's oil back to the people.

    All the sanction BS has always been about Iran's oil & NOT that they are a danger to anyone around them. The deal made by Obama was one of the best things he did & lifted the heavy burdens of sanctions off the Iranians. Was it perfect? No. But it was definitely a step in the right direction.

    I knew that Trump was a NeoCon war monger from his campaign speeches about bad Iran & how the Nuke deal was the worst thing ever done. Plus his lying & saying that the US was "giving" Iran millions of dollars, when the money was part of what our gov had taken from Iran's accounts & was owed to them. Getting out of the deal & then sanctioning Iran, who was in complete compliance, is an act of war.
    It was a giant boon for the military industrial complex. As soon as Obama gave them all those billions of their money back they spent it on ballistic missle technologies that they in turn sold to NK. We got to arm Israel, South Korea, Japan, and Saudi Arabia. The military industrial complex thanks Obama. Not only do they have rockets but the North Koreans probably sold them nuke technology so now Saudi Arabia is buying nuke technology from us, the military industrial complex loves Obama

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    It was a giant boon for the military industrial complex. As soon as Obama gave them all those billions of their money back they spent it on ballistic missle technologies that they in turn sold to NK. We got to arm Israel, South Korea, Japan, and Saudi Arabia. The military industrial complex thanks Obama. Not only do they have rockets but the North Koreans probably sold them nuke technology so now Saudi Arabia is buying nuke technology from us, the military industrial complex loves Obama
    And they also love Trump, Dubya, Bush SR, Reagan, LBJ & all the other presidents back to Wilson.

    And, I'm sure Iran is pretty tired of the West messing in their country for decades. How would Americans act if they were being starved to death? Or their money & resources were taken? Or deals broken & sanctions piled on them even when they were complying with the enemy?
    There is no spoon.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    And they also love Trump, Dubya, Bush SR, Reagan, LBJ & all the other presidents back to Wilson.

    And, I'm sure Iran is pretty tired of the West messing in their country for decades. How would Americans act if they were being starved to death? Or their money & resources were taken? Or deals broken & sanctions piled on them even when they were complying with the enemy?
    Japan is investing tons of money in their military for the first time since world war 2. This has nothing to do with Iran, this is a boondoggle for the military industrial complex because Obama opened pandoras box with the Iran bad deal.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Japan is investing tons of money in their military for the first time since world war 2. This has nothing to do with Iran, this is a boondoggle for the military industrial complex because Obama opened pandoras box with the Iran bad deal.
    NO.

    Japan is investing because of the US BREAKING the deal. They need oil & Iran is a source- they should not be punished for trading with Iran. This is the same kinda BS that shoved them into WWII by FDR.
    There is no spoon.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    NO.

    Japan is investing because of the US BREAKING the deal. They need oil & Iran is a source- they should not be punished for trading with Iran. This is the same kinda BS that shoved them into WWII by FDR.
    How is it breaking the deal if we leave the deal? Was there a time period in the agreement?

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    How is it breaking the deal if we leave the deal? Was there a time period in the agreement?
    If Iran had left the deal, we would be bombing them. In fact there is some thoughts that DC may be trying to get this to happen, even though we're already out of the deal.

    The hypocrisy is that Iran has ALWAYS been in accordance about nuclear weapons & our own gov has said so. It signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty and held to it. Israel would not sign & is estimated to have 200-400 nuclear war heads- but Iran's the bad guy.
    There is no spoon.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    If Iran had left the deal, we would be bombing them. In fact there is some thoughts that DC may be trying to get this to happen, even though we're already out of the deal.

    The hypocrisy is that Iran has ALWAYS been in accordance about nuclear weapons & our own gov has said so. It signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty and held to it. Israel would not sign & is estimated to have 200-400 nuclear war heads- but Iran's the bad guy.
    The Iranian deal doesn't have anything in there that says if Iran leaves the deal we bomb them. Trump hasn't even said that he would use military force against Iran after he blamed the attack on those ships against them. Why should we or any of our "allies" trade with a country that chants death to America?

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    The Iranian deal doesn't have anything in there that says if Iran leaves the deal we bomb them. Trump hasn't even said that he would use military force against Iran after he blamed the attack on those ships against them. Why should we or any of our "allies" trade with a country that chants death to America?
    Good grief- learn some real history & read the OP- we have staged coups in their country & been stealing their resources for 75+ years. We have called them the bad guy so the average joe will agree to all the crap we have done to them. The solution is GTF outta their space & leave them alone. NO sanctions. NO coups. NO stealing their resources. NOTHING.
    There is no spoon.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Good grief- learn some real history & read the OP- we have staged coups in their country & been stealing their resources for 75+ years. We have called them the bad guy so the average joe will agree to all the crap we have done to them. The solution is GTF outta their space & leave them alone. NO sanctions. NO coups. NO stealing their resources. NOTHING.
    We aren't stealing their resources by putting sanctions on other countries that buy oil from them and not letting them buy stuff from us or not letting people from our country buy stuff from them isn't stealing resources from them. We don't have to trade with people who chant death to America, and I wouldn't buy stuff from someone who did either. This is the very definition of leaving them alone.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    We aren't stealing their resources by putting sanctions on other countries that buy oil from them and not letting them buy stuff from us or not letting people from our country buy stuff from them isn't stealing resources from them. We don't have to trade with people who chant death to America, and I wouldn't buy stuff from someone who did either. This is the very definition of leaving them alone.
    Yes- it is stealing- we have no business sanctioning anyone- if we don't like them then ignore them. Iran hasn't started a war in 100+ years & yet the US Almighty calls them the biggest terrorists in the ME.
    Read some real truth.

    The Deep State's Long Enmity Toward Iranians
    By Jacob G. Hornberger

    August 14, 2018

    The U.S. deep state’s hatred of the Iranian people goes back a long way, at least as far back as 1953. That was the year that the CIA, which was called into existence in 1947 when the U.S. government was being converted to a national-security state, targeted Iran with its first regime-change operation. And guess who paid the price for that operation. Yes, the people of Iran.

    The Iranian Parliament had elected a man named Mohammad Mossadegh to be their prime minister. Mosaddegh would later be named Time magazine’s “Man of the Year.” As many government officials around the world have done, Mosaddegh nationalized the country’s oil industry, arguing that natural resources belonged to the nation.

    The oil companies that bore the brunt of the nationalization were British-owned. Not surprisingly, they, along with British public officials, were livid over having the oil wells nationalized. British officials turned to the CIA for help.

    The CIA asked President Truman for permission to initiate a coup to help the British oil companies, which the CIA knew would destroy the Iranian people’s experiment with democracy. To his everlasting credit, Truman said no. That didn’t stop the CIA however. As soon as President Eisenhower became president in 1952, the CIA renewed its request for a coup, arguing that Mossadegh was a “communist.”

    Why did that make a difference? Because by this time, the U.S. deep state had launched its Cold War against America’s World War II partner and ally, the Soviet Union, which was run by a communist regime. Americans were inculcated with the fear that the communists were coming to get us, take over the federal government, and turn America Red. Thus, anyone labeled a “communist” automatically became a threat to U.S. “national security.”

    Ike gave the go-ahead to the Iranian coup. In a brilliantly cunning plan, the CIA successfully toppled Mosaddegh but, surprisingly, left him alive. The CIA then vested the unelected Shah of Iran with total dictatorial power over the Iranian people. The Shah restored oil rights to the British petroleum countries.

    The Shah’s regime was brutally oppressive, enforced by a national police-military-intelligence force called the SAVAK that was a combination of the Pentagon, CIA, NSA, and FBI. Trained and supported by the CIA, the SAVAK proceeded to subject the Iranian people to one of the most brutal and oppressive totalitarian regimes in the world. The U.S. government reinforced the oppression with money, armaments, and training.

    For 25 years, the Iranian people suffered under the brutal dictatorship of the U.S.-installed and U.S.-supported Shah. That came to a screeching halt in 1979, when the Iranian people finally had had enough and decided to violently revolt against their U.S.-installed dictator.

    While the Iranian people succeeded in their revolution, the problem is that they were unable to restore the democratic system that the CIA destroyed 25 years before. They ended up with another brutal dictatorial regime, this time a theocratic one.

    The U.S. deep state has never forgiven the Iranian people for ousting its dictator, the Shah. As far as the deep staters are concerned, no one has the right to oust a U.S.-installed and U.S.-supported dictator from power, no matter how oppressive his tyranny is.

    That’s what motivated U.S. officials to partner with Saddam Hussein — yes, that Saddam — the Iraqi dictator who they would later turn on and call the “new Hitler.” But this was back in the 1980s, when they were partnering with the “new Hitler” in his war against Iran. Still angry over what the Iranian people had done in 1979, all that U.S. officials wanted was for Saddam to kill as many Iranians as he could and, in the process, even defeat Iran and install another pro-U.S. dictator to run the Iranian government.

    I sometimes wonder how many Americans realize that that’s when the United States furnished Saddam with those infamous weapons of mass destruction — the ones that would later be used as an excuse for turning on Iraq and launching a U.S. regime-change operation there. Back then, U.S. officials hoped that Saddam would use those WMDs to kill Iranians. (See “Where Did Iraq Get Its Weapons of Mass Destruction?” by Jacob G. Hornberger: Part 1 and Part 2.)

    That’s what the economic sanctions on Iran are all about. For years, U.S. officials have targeted the Iranian people by using sanctions to inflict massive economic harm, even death, on them. The aim has been and is: Oust your dictatorship in another revolution and restore a pro-U.S. dictatorship in its stead or we will continue to squeeze the economic lifeblood out of you until you die.

    That’s also why U.S. officials are now beating the war drums against Iran — to get the same type of regime change they got in in Iran in 1953 and in Iraq in 2003. They know that there is no way that the Iranian regime could stand up to the U.S. Air Force in a war. The entire country would be bombed, just as Iraq was. They would be killing not only Iranians who serve their government as soldiers but also wedding parties and other “collateral damage.” Killing tens of thousands of Iranians in the process of destroying their country would be considered no bigger deal than killing Iraqis and destroying their country.

    Here is the thing that everyone should keep in mind: Neither Iran nor Iraq has ever attacked the United States. Iran is not over here. It is the U.S. deep state that is over there. The decades-long U.S. war against the Iranian people is just another reflection of what the conversion of the U.S. government to a national-security state has done to the morals and values of the American people.

    Reprinted with permission from The Future of Freedom Foundation.
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/08/...ward-iranians/
    Last edited by Ender; 06-16-2019 at 10:26 PM.
    There is no spoon.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Yes- it is stealing- we have no business sanctioning anyone- if we don't like them then ignore them. Iran hasn't started a war in 100+ years & yet the US Almighty calls them the biggest terrorists in the ME.
    Read some real truth.


    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/08/...ward-iranians/
    I disagree, no one is stopping other countries from violating the sanctions they choose not to. Countries should be able to choose who they trade with. You can't act as if they are an innocent bystander, they literally blew up American soldiers with IEDS in Iraq.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    I disagree, no one is stopping other countries from violating the sanctions they choose not to. Countries should be able to choose who they trade with. You can't act as if they are an innocent bystander, they literally blew up American soldiers with IEDS in Iraq.
    Read the $#@!ing article.
    There is no spoon.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Read the $#@!ing article.
    I read your article and I disagree that we should forget about history like people losing their limbs and lives to Iranian IEDs or screaming death to America. I would be willing to forget about history if they stopped the arms race with a deal with us in the same way that we had made a deal with the Soviets but they aren't going to forget about history just because we take sanctions off or quit the arms race and I don't think a possible nuclear war is worth the gamble.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    I read your article and I disagree that we should forget about history like people losing their limbs and lives to Iranian IEDs or screaming death to America. I would be willing to forget about history if they stopped the arms race with a deal with us in the same way that we had made a deal with the Soviets but they aren't going to forget about history just because we take sanctions off or quit the arms race and I don't think a possible nuclear war is worth the gamble.
    Iran has never been the aggressor- they haven't started a war in over 100+ years- but, yes, they will fight back. They were attacked by Iraq, which was backed by the US- then when the US decided to take Saddam out much of the US troops were inside the Iranian border. It has been documented that the IEDs were made in Britain & the US- sorta like Saddam's WMD were stuff the US gave him to attack Iran.

    The whole Iraqi war was unconstitutional & illegal- but in order to get the public behind it the Iraqis & Iranians needed to be made "evil".
    There is no spoon.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    We aren't stealing their resources by putting sanctions on other countries that buy oil from them and not letting them buy stuff from us or not letting people from our country buy stuff from them isn't stealing resources from them. We don't have to trade with people who chant death to America, and I wouldn't buy stuff from someone who did either. This is the very definition of leaving them alone.
    We do plenty of trade with Saudi Arabia, and they fit all those descriptors.
    "The Patriarch"

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    That is a lie.
    @Brian4Liberty, devil keeps spreading this lie.
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