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Thread: Socialism: Are we flirting with it or is it already here?

  1. #1

    Socialism: Are we flirting with it or is it already here?

    Split off from another thread as requested.

    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz
    This country needs to make up its mind and stop flirting with socialism. Up or down vote once and for all and close the book forever on this BS.
    That is the kinda funny part of all of this. We aren't flirting with socialism. It's here and it's been here for 90 years. Most people don't know it but the communist manifesto has already been enacted almost fully already, with the finishing touches in the works. Now, the implementors just want people to openly accept what's already been in place for a long time, but with more overt police state measures that accompany socialist policies. Social security? It's got "social" right in the title. Property ownership? That was abolished a long time ago. No one legally owns anything in this country. We are granted usage rights but that's it. Media and communication is fully controlled and what isn't is being stamped out as I write this. Private transportation is being phased out per Agenda 21 2030 mandates for autonomous cars and dense urban development. Politicians are fully controlled. Income tax and economic centralization...obvious...nuff said there. Inheritance abolition. Less and less is being passed down between generations lately as sky high elderly healthcare costs and things like reverse mortgages eat up all of what would be inherited.

    -------------------------
    Describes it pretty well, though it appears to have been written at the most basic level and even before recent developments like Agenda 21 2030 and social media censorship, among others:
    http://laissez-fairerepublic.com/TenPlanks.html

    Although Marx advocated the use of any means, especially including violent revolution, to bring about socialist dictatorship, he suggested ten political goals for developed countries such as the United States. How far has the United States -- traditionally the bastion of freedom, free markets, and private property -- gone down the Marxist road to fulfill these socialist aims? You be the judge. The following are Marx's ten planks from his Communist Manifesto.

    1. Abolition of private property in land and application of all rents of land to public purpose.
    The courts have interpreted the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868) to give the government far more "eminent domain" power than was originally intended, Under the rubric of "eminent domain" and various zoning regulations, land use regulations by the Bureau of Land Managementproperty taxes, and "environmental" excuses, private property rights have become very diluted and private property in landis, vehicles, and other forms are seized almost every day in this country under the "forfeiture" provisions of the RICO statutes and the so-called War on Drugs..


    2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
    The 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913 (which some scholars maintain was never properly ratified), and various State income taxes, established this major Marxist coup in the United States many decades ago. These taxes continue to drain the lifeblood out of the American economy and greatly reduce the accumulation of desperately needed capital for future growth, business starts, job creation, and salary increases.


    3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
    Another Marxian attack on private property rights is in the form of Federal & State estate taxes and other inheritance taxes, which have abolished or at least greatly diluted the right of private property owners to determine the disposition and distribution of their estates upon their death. Instead, government bureaucrats get their greedy hands involved .


    4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
    We call it government seizures, tax liens, "forfeiture" Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process.


    5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
    The Federal Reserve System, created by the Federal Reserve Act of Congress in 1913, is indeed such a "national bank" and it politically manipulates interest rates and holds a monopoly on legal counterfeiting in the United States. This is exactly what Marx had in mind and completely fulfills this plank, another major socialist objective. Yet, most Americans naively believe the U.S. of A. is far from a Marxist or socialist nation.


    6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state.
    In the U.S., communication and transportation are controlled and regulated by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) established by the Communications Act of 1934 and the Department of Transportation and the Interstate Commerce Commission (established by Congress in 1887), and the Federal Aviation Administration as well as Executive orders 11490, 10999 -- not to mention various state bureaucracies and regulations. There is also the federal postal monopoly, AMTRAK and CONRAIL -- outright socialist (government-owned) enterprises. Instead of free-market private enteprrise in these important industries, these fields in America are semi-cartelized through the government's regulatory-industiral complex.


    7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
    While the U.S. does not have vast "collective farms" (which failed so miserably in the Soviet Union), we nevertheless do have a significant degree of government involvement in agriculture in the form of price support subsidies and acreage alotments and land-use controls. The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture. As well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Evironmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.


    8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
    We call it the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000. And I almost forgot...The Equal Rights Amendment means that women should do all work that men do including the military and since passage it would make women subject to the draft.


    9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.
    We call it the Planning Reorganization Act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136.

    10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.
    People are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, which train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" .
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals



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  3. #2
    Nope, already here.

    As I noted in the OP of the thread this was split from, I guess all that's needed now is a Man of Steel (Stalin) and some GULAGS to make things complete.

  4. #3
    Of course socialism is already here. It has been for the past few decades and will continue to do so until the people do something about it.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  5. #4
    Socialism isn't here already (private property still exists), but we're getting there.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  6. #5
    Not nyet.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Socialism isn't here already (private property still exists), but we're getting there.
    Refer to #1 and #4 of the OP.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Socialism isn't here already (private property still exists), but we're getting there.
    Was going to say just this^^ Mixed economy =/= socialism. It's a cluster$#@!, but not socialist yet. You folks get back to me when the socialists seize the means of production.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Refer to #1 and #4 of the OP.
    It's worse than that. All of the land we think we "own" is actually Fee Simple Deed instead of Alloidial Title. In other words, when a mortgage is taken out and the buyer signs the 40 page 'Deed of Trust' that's placed in front of them by the friendly real estate attorney, the property is placed into a Trust run by the state and local governments, where the government becomes the owner of the land and the "buyer" merely a tenant in perpetuity. Same with vehicles. And most everything else we consider to be "property". After all, we've never actually paid for anything. Why? Because the currency itself is debt and you can never pay a debt with another debt. You can only shift the debt around. We have what's called an "equitable color of title" to property. A title in appearance....but not actual ownership. We are allowed to use the property and if we violate the terms, it is taken by force by people in various costumes. If you own something then no one in a costume can simply take it from you, legally, for refusing to follow some arbitrary rule. This form of faux ownership is the basis of all of the asset forfeitures, vehicle impoundments and seizures for victimless "crimes" and failure to pay taxes, etc. It's because the state already owns it and you just get to use it.
    Last edited by devil21; 06-12-2019 at 06:44 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals



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  11. #9
    How about we take a look at Marx for a sec... He was a hobo that lived in his parents basement when he came up with his utopian ideals. And people still fall for his $#@!? Really? A guy with very little to zero real world experience on why his philosophies would fail? Probably only supported by those at the top because its used as BAIT to get idiots to throw away their freedom that their fathers died to acquire.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  12. #10
    116 years and an For later...yep

    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    How about we take a look at Marx for a sec... He was a hobo that lived in his parents basement when he came up with his utopian ideals. And people still fall for his $#@!? Really? A guy with very little to zero real world experience on why his philosophies would fail? Probably only supported by those at the top because its used as BAIT to get idiots to throw away their freedom that their fathers died to acquire.
    Marx makes people feel good and empowered. Everybody should support him or else ....

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Was going to say just this^^ Mixed economy =/= socialism. It's a cluster$#@!, but not socialist yet. You folks get back to me when the socialists seize the means of production.
    Do you have any idea what it takes to start a small business in the US? Costs & regulations make it almost impossible for the average joe.
    There is no spoon.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Do you have any idea what it takes to start a small business in the US? Costs & regulations make it almost impossible for the average joe.

    Not only start a small business, but also keep it afloat.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  16. #14
    Flirting? Socialism is on third base and it's only a matter of time before it slides into home and we're completely $#@!ed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Refer to #1 and #4 of the OP.
    Today I can start and own my business, build and sell a property. Sorry but we still have private property rights. Yes, they can seize your property if they believe its used in the committing of a crime or terrorism but those are rare cases. Like some people have said, we have a mixed economy that is evenly weighted between socialism and capitalism but the balance has held steady for decades, it could tilt towards socialism in the future but it hasn't started doing that.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Today I can start and own my business, build and sell a property. Sorry but we still have private property rights. Yes, they can seize your property if they believe its used in the committing of a crime or terrorism but those are rare cases. Like some people have said, we have a mixed economy that is evenly weighted between socialism and capitalism but the balance has held steady for decades, it could tilt towards socialism in the future but it hasn't started doing that.
    Such as a wall, a road, or a Parking Lot.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Such as a wall, a road, or a Parking Lot.
    No, like cars, cash, real estate and sometimes businesses. Never heard of the US govt taking road, walls or parking lots from citizens
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    No, like cars, cash, real estate and sometimes businesses. Never heard of the US govt taking road, walls or parking lots from citizens
    You should come around here sometime. Some businesses are in cahoots with local government and have forced home owners out to put up such things. At times, the cost to battle it out costs more than the property, and then once vacated it becomes prime real estate. It's funny how that works.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Today I can start and own my business, build and sell a property. Sorry but we still have private property rights. Yes, they can seize your property if they believe its used in the committing of a crime or terrorism but those are rare cases. Like some people have said, we have a mixed economy that is evenly weighted between socialism and capitalism but the balance has held steady for decades, it could tilt towards socialism in the future but it hasn't started doing that.
    Or eminent domain or asset forfeiture ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Or eminent domain or asset forfeiture ...
    And tax liens etc. Just being curious, has any govt entity ever seized your private property? your car(s), your real estate? I think most people are confident that they can navigate the law without their property being seized and that is the point I was trying to make. This is because we still have private property rights in this country.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    And tax liens etc. Just being curious, has any govt entity ever seized your private property? your car(s), your real estate? I think most people are confident that they can navigate the law without their property being seized and that is the point I was trying to make. This is because we still have private property rights in this country.
    Yes. When I was in my early 20's a cop pulled me over and stole my weed and pipe. $#@!ing $#@!.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Yes. When I was in my early 20's a cop pulled me over and stole my weed and pipe. $#@!ing $#@!.
    lol, you owe a cop a thank you. But seriously if this is the extent of their seizures for you then the so called absence of private property hasn't affected u. Seriously u owe a cop a big thank you
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    lol, you owe a cop a thank you. But seriously if this is the extent of their seizures for you then the so called absence of private property hasn't affected u. Seriously u owe a cop a big thank you
    Oh, boy.

    Which is why our rights have been slowly declining.

    A big thank you and may I please have another?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Oh, boy.

    Which is why our rights have been slowly declining.

    A big thank you and may I please have another?
    I was sorta being facetious about owing them a thank you, hence the smiley face at the end. But I am not going to cry myself to sleep if someone be it priest, teacher, elder stops me from doing crack, meth, heroine, cocaine, cigarettes and even weed.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I was sorta being facetious about owing them a thank you, hence the smiley face at the end. But I am not going to cry myself to sleep if someone be it priest, teacher, elder stops me from doing crack, meth, heroine, cocaine, cigarettes and even weed.
    Lick the boot that stomps on your rights. Please sir can I have some more boot to save me from evil weed?

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I was sorta being facetious about owing them a thank you, hence the smiley face at the end. But I am not going to cry myself to sleep if someone be it priest, teacher, elder stops me from doing crack, meth, heroine, cocaine, cigarettes and even weed.
    Don't even mess with my smokes

    ;-)
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Lick the boot that stomps on your rights. Please sir can I have some more boot to save me from evil weed?
    Says the guy slobbering over Trump's dirty establishment boots.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I was sorta being facetious about owing them a thank you, hence the smiley face at the end. But I am not going to cry myself to sleep if someone be it priest, teacher, elder stops me from doing crack, meth, heroine, cocaine, cigarettes and even weed.
    1. He didn't stop me from smoking weed.
    2. He stole my $#@!.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  33. #29

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    The enemy of my enemy is an ally.
    Two wrongs do make a Right. Which is what we are trying to get across to everybody.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

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