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Thread: Hydrogen station explodes, Toyota halts sales of fuel cell cars

  1. #1

    Hydrogen station explodes, Toyota halts sales of fuel cell cars

    https://electrek.co/2019/06/11/hydro...uel-cell-cars/

    A hydrogen refueling station exploded in Norway on Monday and the company operating the station has suspended operation at its other locations following the explosion.

    Now, Toyota and Hyundai are both halting sales of fuel cell vehicles in the country.

    Does this spell the end of fuel cell hydrogen vehicles as a “zero-emission” alternative?

    The Uno-X hydrogen station in Sandvika in Bærum exploded on Monday and resulted in two injuries in a nearby non-fuel cell vehicle.

    According to the police, the explosion was strong enough that it activated the airbags in the vehicle without any impact.

    The cause of the explosion is currently unknown and the rest of the refueling network is being shut down.

    Jon André Løkke, CEO of Nel Hydrogen, the company operating those hydrogen refueling stations, commented:
    “It is too early to speculate on the cause and what has gone wrong. Our top priority is the safe operation of the stations we have delivered. As a precaution, we have temporarily put ten other stations in standby mode in anticipation of more information.”
    With the refueling network crippled, Toyota and Hyundai have announced that they are temporarily halting sales of fuel cell vehicles.

    Toyota Norway manager Espen Olsen said (via TU):
    “We don’t know exactly what happened on the Uno-X drive yet, so we don’t want to speculate. But we stop the sale until we have learned what has happened, and for practical reasons, since it is not possible to fill fuel now.”

    They will be offering loaner vehicles to customers who currently own the Mirai since they won’t be able to refuel.

    Toyota insists that this is not changing their view on fuel cell hydrogen vehicles:

    “This does not change our view of hydrogen, and it is important for us to point out that hydrogen cars are at least as safe as ordinary cars. The hydrogen tanks themselves are so robust that you can shoot them with a gun without knocking them.”

    Hyundai, the only other automaker delivering fuel cell vehicles in Norway, has made similar announcements and statements.

    more at link...



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  3. #2
    Dammit,,

    This will be over-hyped.

    One malfunction,, out of ?How Many in operation? ,,

    I would certainly investigate the cause.. But no one shuts down Propane or Natural Gas just because a House Explodes every now and then.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Dammit,,

    This will be over-hyped.

    One malfunction,, out of ?How Many in operation? ,,

    I would certainly investigate the cause.. But no one shuts down Propane or Natural Gas just because a House Explodes every now and then.
    True. And further there is no reason for a hydrogen tank to explode if done properly.

    9/11 Thermate experiments

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  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    True. And further there is no reason for a hydrogen tank to explode if done properly.
    Tell that to the Hindenburg
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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Dammit,,

    This will be over-hyped.

    One malfunction,, out of ?How Many in operation? ,,

    I would certainly investigate the cause.. But no one shuts down Propane or Natural Gas just because a House Explodes every now and then.
    All of the electric car/charging station fires don't seem to get the same response.
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    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Zero emissions is a lie , unless you think the electricity (charging) provided, and manufacturing was all
    done emission free , it wasn't .

    We don't have a sufficient sources of clean electricity, to ever make this lie come true.

    One day maybe , but we are decades off.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    All of the electric car/charging station fires don't seem to get the same response.
    All,, I have heard of Two... Both offshore..

    AI Crashes are another thing.. it is not ready,,

    Hydrogen has been for some time.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Zero emissions is a lie , unless you think the electricity (charging) provided, and manufacturing was all
    done emission free , it wasn't .

    We don't have a sufficient sources of clean electricity, to ever make this lie come true.

    One day maybe , but we are decades off.
    I have NEVER bought into Zero Emissions.. But I do love efficiency and I have a natural and personal hate for waste.
    Electric Motors have been efficiently moving untold tons of Freight. Everyday,, For Decades..

    Batteries Have improved and still are improving. Fuel Cells have been Proven to work..

    And there is enough Coal to power this whole country for Hundreds of Years. (Yes,, Coal can be used efficiently)

    Zero Emissions?? No...
    Cleaner power,, Yeah , I'm All For it.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I have NEVER bought into Zero Emissions.. But I do love efficiency and I have a natural and personal hate for waste.
    Electric Motors have been efficiently moving untold tons of Freight. Everyday,, For Decades..

    Batteries Have improved and still are improving. Fuel Cells have been Proven to work..

    And there is enough Coal to power this whole country for Hundreds of Years. (Yes,, Coal can be used efficiently)

    Zero Emissions?? No...
    Cleaner power,, Yeah , I'm All For it.
    Those tons of Freight are moved by diesel engines , they in turn generate the
    electricity for the electric motors , I love electric motors, but I don't get
    snowed by every sales pitch that they throw at us, I like to see what's
    behind the curtain.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Those tons of Freight are moved by diesel engines , they in turn generate the
    electricity for the electric motors , I love electric motors, but I don't get
    snowed by every sales pitch that they throw at us, I like to see what's
    behind the curtain.
    Those diesel engines turn nothing but generators..

    Electric Motors provide Motive force.. Batteries work as a Buffer,,, and it hes PROVEN Efficiency over Mechanically driven Trains.

    Same concept downsized. A smaller efficient generator as a Range Extender..
    Current Tech can give normal Commuting and running around on batteries alone.

    It is simply stored energy.. And Electric Motors are Vastly more efficient than Internal Combustion.

    And Full Torque from 1 rpm up to max sustained.

    Performance possibilities are awesome.

    Last edited by pcosmar; 06-12-2019 at 10:07 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  13. #11
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Prop...w=1366&bih=602






    but one Hydrogen Fuel station in Norway is major news..

    Hindenburg Madness,, very much like Reefer Madness but with Hydrogen.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Those diesel engines turn nothing but generators..

    Electric Motors provide Motive force.. Batteries work as a Buffer,,, and it hes PROVEN Efficiency over Mechanically driven Trains.

    Same concept downsized. A smaller efficient generator as a Range Extender..
    Current Tech can give normal Commuting and running around on batteries alone.

    It is simply stored energy.. And Electric Motors are Vastly more efficient than Internal Combustion.

    And Full Torque from 1 rpm up to max sustained.

    Performance possibilities are awesome.

    Look at what you just did PC, I had to explain to you that the electric motors
    weren't what allowed those 'tons' of freight to be moved , it's the diesel motors that allow
    them to do so, instead of agreeing , you had to act like you already know, and know
    more about it than I do.

    : )

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Those diesel engines turn nothing but generators..

    Electric Motors provide Motive force.. Batteries work as a Buffer,,, and it hes PROVEN Efficiency over Mechanically driven Trains.

    Same concept downsized. A smaller efficient generator as a Range Extender..
    Current Tech can give normal Commuting and running around on batteries alone.

    It is simply stored energy.. And Electric Motors are Vastly more efficient than Internal Combustion.

    And Full Torque from 1 rpm up to max sustained.

    Performance possibilities are awesome.

    All the electricity where I live is natural gas so even the electric cars here are burning gas to drive everywhere.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    All the electricity where I live is natural gas so even the electric cars here are burning gas to drive everywhere.
    The Tour Trains in Key West have been running on Natural Gas since the 70s.. Far cleaner and more efficient..
    I believe there was also a cost savings after the initial refit.

    A Propane Generator would make a nice range extender.

    Electricity can be generated many ways... You don't need to used the Worst Fuel Available for the purpose of general transportation.

    Not when there are alternatives.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Look at what you just did PC, I had to explain to you that the electric motors
    weren't what allowed those 'tons' of freight to be moved , it's the diesel motors that allow
    them to do so, instead of agreeing , you had to act like you already know, and know
    more about it than I do.

    : )
    Diesel motors turn Generators,,, NOT WHEELS..

    The Horsepower is Generated by Electric motors.. Electric Motors provide the Motive Force.

    The Generator charges the Batteries.. The batteries Bank feeds into Transformers and Motor Controls.

    The generators could be run by any fuel.. even Steam. Diesel was chosen due to common availability. and convenience.

    It is still far more efficient that connecting the ICE engine to the wheels.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    The Tour Trains in Key West have been running on Natural Gas since the 70s.. Far cleaner and more efficient..
    I believe there was also a cost savings after the initial refit.

    A Propane Generator would make a nice range extender.

    Electricity can be generated many ways... You don't need to used the Worst Fuel Available for the purpose of general transportation.

    Not when there are alternatives.
    Our tax money built a natural gas station in Afghanistan in the middle of a warzone when no one had natural gas cars, it cost about 40 million dollars and didn't do too well lol.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Diesel motors turn Generators,,, NOT WHEELS..

    The Horsepower is Generated by Electric motors.. Electric Motors provide the Motive Force.

    The Generator charges the Batteries.. The batteries Bank feeds into Transformers and Motor Controls.

    The generators could be run by any fuel.. even Steam. Diesel was chosen due to common availability. and convenience.

    It is still far more efficient that connecting the ICE engine to the wheels.
    No sht Sherlock, this isn't a critical assignment, not a 'Sistine Chapel Build' , I didn't feel the need
    to lay out the blue prints , you thought electricity powered the Tons of Freight, well that's a
    minor subordinate aspect of what really powers the train, it was glaringly obviously , you didn't have a clue.,
    I just attempted to help you understand what powers Freight Trains, that's all .

    Diesel
    Genset
    Electric Motor ( wonderful invention , they don't power Freight Trains)

    'Electric Motor' moving Millions of Tons of Freight , the 'tail waging the dog' .

    There are in fact electric Trains of course, Freight Trains are not typically in that subset.,
    and they aren't clean , because we don't have enough truly clean grids to feed them.

    Carry on......

  21. #18
    1937 Hydrogen vehicles discovered to be unsafe.



    On May 6, 1937, the German airship Zeppelin LZ 129 Hindenburg burst into flames in Lakehurst, New Jersey, while the airship was landing. (NASM, Archives Division)
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
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  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    I just attempted to help you understand what powers Freight Trains, that's all .
    Ok
    Electric motors are a common means of powering a train, whether the energy required is carried on-board the train in the form of a diesel engine and its fuel or obtained from outside the train by connection with an external power supply carried by an overhead line or third
    rail.
    http://www.railway-technical.com/tra...control-d.html

    I can keep going till even the most stupid folks get it
    http://edisontechcenter.org/Dieseltrains.html
    Diesel Locomotives use electricity to drive forward motion despite the name 'diesel'. A large diesel engine turns a shaft that drives a generator which makes electricity. This electrical energy powers large electric motors at the wheels called 'traction motors'.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    No sht Sherlock, this isn't a critical assignment, not a 'Sistine Chapel Build' , I didn't feel the need
    to lay out the blue prints , you thought electricity powered the Tons of Freight, well that's a
    minor subordinate aspect of what really powers the train, it was glaringly obviously , you didn't have a clue.,
    I just attempted to help you understand what powers Freight Trains, that's all .

    Diesel
    Genset
    Electric Motor ( wonderful invention , they don't power Freight Trains)

    'Electric Motor' moving Millions of Tons of Freight , the 'tail waging the dog' .

    There are in fact electric Trains of course, Freight Trains are not typically in that subset.,
    and they aren't clean , because we don't have enough truly clean grids to feed them.

    Carry on......
    Yo. Arrogant moron. He said a diesel generator providing juice to electric axle motors holds up better than a clutch and multi-ratio gearset. Or would you care to link us to the clutch--or even the torque converter--that can handle the output of a 4400 horsepower engine?

    And your idea of refuting that was to use the term "genset".

    Quick quiz, Einstein: What is the "gen" in "genset" short for? If you think it's something other than "generator", do amuse us and tell us what you think it's abbreviated from.

    We're all agog to hear.

    Or you could shut up and leave people wondering if you're an $#@!, rather than removing all doubt.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-14-2019 at 06:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Yo. Arrogant moron. He said a diesel generator providing juice to electric axle motors holds up better than a clutch and multi-ratio gearset. Or would you care to link us to the clutch--or even the torque converter--that can handle the output of a 4400 horsepower engine?

    And your idea of refuting that was to use the term "genset".

    Quick quiz, Einstein: What is the "gen" in "genset" short for? If you think it's something other than "generator", do amuse us and tell us what you think it's abbreviated from.

    We're all agog to hear.

    Or you could shut up and leave people wondering if you're an $#@!, rather than removing all doubt.
    I just knew one of you train nerds was gonna show up in this thread.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Yo. Arrogant moron. He said a diesel generator providing juice to electric axle motors holds up better than a clutch and multi-ratio gearset. Or would you care to link us to the clutch--or even the torque converter--that can handle the output of a 4400 horsepower engine?

    And your idea of refuting that was to use the term "genset".

    Quick quiz, Einstein: What is the "gen" in "genset" short for? If you think it's something other than "generator", do amuse us and tell us what you think it's abbreviated from.

    We're all agog to hear.

    Or you could shut up and leave people wondering if you're an $#@!, rather than removing all doubt.
    Lets see, if I call someone an arrogant moron I get banned , you get a pass, this is just fkd up.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Lets see, if I call someone an arrogant moron I get banned , you get a pass, this is just fkd up.
    I May have to ban the both of you, at least temporality.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    I May have to ban the both of you, at least temporality.
    That's ok, I can be afucking moron at times , just ask around......



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  29. #25
    diesel

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    diesel
    No way , diesel explodes daily......oops , no, sorry.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    No way , diesel explodes daily......oops , no, sorry.
    Yes ideedy - a tiny/controlled explosion, with every injection event.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    Yes ideedy - a tiny/controlled explosion, with every injection event.
    And one incident at one Hydrogen Refueling station is major news because of Hindenburg Madness..

    No one answered the question,, One out of how many??

    how mane of the hundreds of refueling stations in this country have exploded..?? =none

    And how many Propane/Natural Gas explosions are there? = many every year.

    WTF is with the hype over one incident in a backwards country?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    And one incident at one Hydrogen Refueling station is major news because of Hindenburg Madness..

    No one answered the question,, One out of how many??

    how mane of the hundreds of refueling stations in this country have exploded..?? =none

    And how many Propane/Natural Gas explosions are there? = many every year.

    WTF is with the hype over one incident in a backwards country?
    My issue with hydrogen fuel cells has little to do with this incident. My wife drives a gasoline powered car - those can explode too. Also, studies done on the Hindenburg have showed that the flammable "skin" was a greater contributor to the incident than the hydrogen itself.

    To be blunt, I'm guilty of indulging in the incident because many gadget freaks overlook practical solutions to problems because they are more attracted to novel and "sexy" technology. Its kind of a low blow as many folks who oppose hydrogen will cite the hindendburg, when there are so many better examples of why hydrogen is not a very practical fuel (there are some applications where hydrogen makes sense, but not in the "SAVE THE PLANET" capacity that is often pitched)

    Diesel is an existing technology that can utilize existing infrastructure, be environmentally sound, and actually "carbon negative" - assuming anyone gives a sh!t about those things. Investment in biomass fuel research and diesel engine technology would yield greater immediate benefits IMO, than pursuing some hydrogen fantasy.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post

    Diesel is an existing technology that can utilize existing infrastructure, be environmentally sound, and actually "carbon negative" - assuming anyone gives a sh!t about those things. Investment in biomass fuel research and diesel engine technology would yield greater immediate benefits IMO, than pursuing some hydrogen fantasy.
    True enough.. except that Hydrogen is Not Fantasy..
    And where Petroleum is limited,, Hydrogen is NOT.

    Petroleum still has uses,, and some places ICE engines may be a Best solution.
    But it will never reach the efficiency that Electric already holds.

    Max efficiency for I.C.E. is 50%.. Current Production Electric Motors have a 94% efficiency rating.

    Efficient use of Energy.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 06-15-2019 at 07:45 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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