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Thread: Amash quits House Freedom Caucus

  1. #1

    Amash quits House Freedom Caucus

    Amash quits House Freedom Caucus
    By MELANIE ZANONA - 06/10/2019

    Rep. Justin Amash quit the conservative House Freedom Caucus on Monday night, weeks after becoming the lone Republican to call for President Donald Trump’s impeachment.

    The Michigan lawmaker told a CNN reporter that he has “the highest regard for them, and they’re my close friends,” but he “didn’t want to be a further distraction for the group.” Amash’s decision to step down was confirmed to POLITICO by his office.
    ...
    But Amash’s support for impeachment roiled members of the Freedom Caucus, who found Amash’s criticism dead wrong. The group decided to uniformly oppose his impeachment stance last month, though they stopped short of kicking him out of the caucus — despite some lawmakers complaining that Amash was still a member.

    Amash, a 39-year-old libertarian who rode the 2010 tea party wave to Congress, had stopped showing up to HFC meetings this year and even threatened to quit the group at one point last year after they didn’t stand up to Trump for attacking one of their own members, South Carolina’s Mark Sanford, who was facing a pro-Trump primary challenge. (Sanford lost his primary.)
    ...
    More: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...caucus-1359614
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  3. #2
    Amash, a 39-year-old libertarian who rode the 2010 tea party wave to Congress, had stopped showing up to HFC meetings this year
    Sounds like he was just making it official.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  4. #3
    It looks more and more like he will turn into the next Jeff Flakey.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

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  5. #4
    When was the last freedom thing they endorsed?

  6. #5
    He's going down in flames, losing in 2020 if he even runs.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

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  7. #6
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    Justin Amash was once a valuable leader of libertarian principles in Washington D.C.

    Unfortunately now he is a lone wolf that nobody is interested in following.

    I am just glad that Massie didn't catch the TDS.
    Citizen of Arizona
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  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    Justin Amash was once a valuable leader of libertarian principles in Washington D.C.

    Unfortunately now he is a lone wolf that nobody is interested in following.

    I am just glad that Massie didn't catch the TDS.
    Amash, Sanford, and RPF are all excellent examples of the lengths to which trump / TPTB (which are the exact same thing, of course) are going to squash those who are willing to make a stand in continuing Ron Paul's work. Speak out against trump in the political realm, and you get a primary challenger that is well-funded by the globalists. Speak out against trump here, and you get 36+ posts of venom and hate a day directed at you by an obvious paid propagandist.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Amash, Sanford, and RPF are all excellent examples of the lengths to which trump / TPTB (which are the exact same thing, of course) are going to squash those who are willing to make a stand in continuing Ron Paul's work. Speak out against trump in the political realm, and you get a primary challenger that is well-funded by the globalists. Speak out against trump here, and you get 36+ posts of venom and hate a day directed at you by an obvious paid propagandist.
    Rand Paul is Ron Paul's legacy and he said he would support Trump over Amash if he ran in 2020 even before he supported using the FISA / Russiagate hoax to impeach the president.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Amash, Sanford, and RPF are all excellent examples of the lengths to which trump / TPTB (which are the exact same thing, of course) are going to squash those who are willing to make a stand in continuing Ron Paul's work. Speak out against trump in the political realm, and you get a primary challenger that is well-funded by the globalists. Speak out against trump here, and you get 36+ posts of venom and hate a day directed at you by an obvious paid propagandist.
    YEP.
    There is no spoon.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It looks more and more like he will turn into the next Jeff Flakey.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    He's going down in flames, losing in 2020 if he even runs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    Justin Amash was once a valuable leader of libertarian principles in Washington D.C.

    Unfortunately now he is a lone wolf that nobody is interested in following.

    I am just glad that Massie didn't catch the TDS.
    How does his leaving the House "Freedom" Caucus indicate any of these things?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Amash, Sanford, and RPF are all excellent examples of the lengths to which trump / TPTB (which are the exact same thing, of course) are going to squash those who are willing to make a stand in continuing Ron Paul's work. Speak out against trump in the political realm, and you get a primary challenger that is well-funded by the globalists. Speak out against trump here, and you get 36+ posts of venom and hate a day directed at you by an obvious paid propagandist.
    Is Rand Paul part of TPTB too? Rand called out Amash for saying he is for Impeachment of President Trump due to obstruction of a hoax perpetuated upon Trump by the DNC and Clinton Foundation.
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  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Amash, Sanford, and RPF are all excellent examples of the lengths to which trump / TPTB (which are the exact same thing, of course) are going to squash those who are willing to make a stand in continuing Ron Paul's work. Speak out against trump in the political realm, and you get a primary challenger that is well-funded by the globalists. Speak out against trump here, and you get 36+ posts of venom and hate a day directed at you by an obvious paid propagandist.
    None of that is true.
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  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Amash, Sanford, and RPF are all excellent examples of the lengths to which trump / TPTB (which are the exact same thing, of course) are going to squash those who are willing to make a stand in continuing Ron Paul's work. Speak out against trump in the political realm, and you get a primary challenger that is well-funded by the globalists. Speak out against trump here, and you get 36+ posts of venom and hate a day directed at you by an obvious paid propagandist.
    Rand takes up the opposition to Trump on various issues. And Rand had far more reason to be personally opposed to Trump after the debates. Stick to the issues, especially the important ones. Rand is in a position to influence because he opposes policies and issues, but maintains a working relationship.

    Amash and Sanford both went personal. They are free to do that, but there may be consequences. As far as the impeachment talk, what important liberty issue is at play?
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
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  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    None of that is true.
    It the lies that Fake News beats day after day and night after night just like good little ghouls that they are.
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  17. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    How does his leaving the House "Freedom" Caucus indicate any of these things?
    With regards to Republican voters, do you think Amash has more influence, less influence or the same in June 2019 compared to June 2016?
    Citizen of Arizona
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  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Amash, Sanford, and RPF are all excellent examples of the lengths to which trump / TPTB (which are the exact same thing, of course) are going to squash those who are willing to make a stand in continuing Ron Paul's work. Speak out against trump in the political realm, and you get a primary challenger that is well-funded by the globalists. Speak out against trump here, and you get 36+ posts of venom and hate a day directed at you by an obvious paid propagandist.
    Taking a stand on Trump when he is wrong is one thing, calling for his impeachment for the BS witch hunt is something else entirely. Amash has a serious case of TDS and he needs to snap out of it if he is going to be an effective leader.
    +
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  20. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Amash, Sanford, and RPF are all excellent examples of the lengths to which trump / TPTB (which are the exact same thing, of course) are going to squash those who are willing to make a stand in continuing Ron Paul's work. Speak out against trump in the political realm, and you get a primary challenger that is well-funded by the globalists. Speak out against trump here, and you get 36+ posts of venom and hate a day directed at you by an obvious paid propagandist.
    The last 12 years have shown us just unlibertarian the American population is. If we are ever to have any influence it seems to me that building bridges with Republican voters makes a ton more sense than burning those bridges. I suppose that is the art of politics. It seems that most libertarians are not very good at politics. No wonder we are always on the outside looking in.
    Citizen of Arizona
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  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    With regards to Republican voters, do you think Amash has more influence, less influence or the same in June 2019 compared to June 2016?
    Leaving the House "Freedom" Caucus has zero effect on that. But I would say that overall, he has more influence now on account of the exposure he has gotten ever since his call for impeachment.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    With regards to Republican voters, do you think Amash has more influence, less influence or the same in June 2019 compared to June 2016?
    He may have more influence with the left and Democrats now. They are currently in the majority in the House, and maybe he now has influence he can use to advocate a liberty direction, such as on 4th Amendment or anti-war issues.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Taking a stand on Trump when he is wrong is one thing, calling for his impeachment for the BS witch hunt is something else entirely. Amash has a serious case of TDS and he needs to snap out of it if he is going to be an effective leader.
    Amash has never sided with the Russian BS. His change in POV came from reading the Mueller report which seems to indicate that Trump told staff to not mention certain things, lied, & fired people to hide some of his actions. These are the same kinds of things that Clinton was impeached for.

    You don't have to believe Trump did any wrong but it's pretty fair to understand where Amash is coming from- and no, I have never believed the Russian nonsense, so please don't go there.
    There is no spoon.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Amash has never sided with the Russian BS. His change in POV came from reading the Mueller report which seems to indicate that Trump told staff to not mention certain things, lied, & fired people to hide some of his actions. These are the same kinds of things that Clinton was impeached for.

    You don't have to believe Trump did any wrong but it's pretty fair to understand where Amash is coming from- and no, I have never believed the Russian nonsense, so please don't go there.
    You have to go there when you believe anything in the Mueller report lead to obstruction.

    The whole Russian hoax was based on the Steele dossier which Mueller didn't talk about in his report.
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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Leaving the House "Freedom" Caucus has zero effect on that. But I would say that overall, he has more influence now on account of the exposure he has gotten ever since his call for impeachment.
    You are joking, right?

    He has gained no influence with the left, they will throw him aside as soon as he is no longer useful and he has lost influence with anyone with any brains. (that's the right)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    He may have more influence with the left and Democrats now. They are currently in the majority in the House, and maybe he now has influence he can use to advocate a liberty direction, such as on 4th Amendment or anti-war issues.
    The left never pays off, especially when you compromise on garbage as opposed to cooperating on things that are legitimate shared interests, he will gain nothing.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

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    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Amash has never sided with the Russian BS.
    That is totally wrong, he even dared to criticize Ron and Rand over Trump's meeting with Putin.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    His change in POV came from reading the Mueller report which seems to indicate that Trump told staff to not mention certain things, lied, & fired people to hide some of his actions. These are the same kinds of things that Clinton was impeached for.
    That's garbage, the Mueller report is a pack of lies that even if taken at face value fail to show any obstruction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    You don't have to believe Trump did any wrong but it's pretty fair to understand where Amash is coming from- and no, I have never believed the Russian nonsense, so please don't go there.
    Amash is making up garbage and nobody here will even try to defend it when confronted with how wrong he is, you all just ignore the facts and parrot the talking points over and over.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    You have to go there when you believe anything in the Mueller report lead to obstruction.

    The whole Russian hoax was based on the Steele dossier which Mueller didn't talk about in his report.
    Aside from the fact that even the Mueller report doesn't support obstruction even if the investigation was legitimate, you can't obstruct an illegal investigation and the investigation was illegal every step of the way.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Aside from the fact that even the Mueller report doesn't support obstruction even if the investigation was legitimate, you can't obstruct an illegal investigation and the investigation was illegal every step of the way.
    Mueller should spend the next two years investigating how the investigation was conducted. And write a report on that.
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  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Aside from the fact that even the Mueller report doesn't support obstruction even if the investigation was legitimate, you can't obstruct an illegal investigation and the investigation was illegal every step of the way.
    You're correct. It is disgusting what the liberals and neocons are doing. Even William Kristol applauded Amash--pathetic.
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  32. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Leaving the House "Freedom" Caucus has zero effect on that. But I would say that overall, he has more influence now on account of the exposure he has gotten ever since his call for impeachment.
    I disagree with you. I think the bulk of Republican voters now will call him a liberal and tune him out. The exposure he has gotten is negative with regards to Republican voters.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    He may have more influence with the left and Democrats now. They are currently in the majority in the House, and maybe he now has influence he can use to advocate a liberty direction, such as on 4th Amendment or anti-war issues.
    The problem with this concept is that Democrat voters don't support the 4th Amendment (or any others). Additionally they only pretend to be anti-war when there is a Republican president and right now they care much more about free healthcare, more illegal immigration, banning guns and making anyone that earns more than them pay "their fair share" of taxes.

    The left wants the constitution abolished, not adhered to.

    Liberals want more government, not less.

    Democrats want to restrict freedom, not increase it.

    Justin Amash won't be welcomed by the left any more than Megyn Kelly.
    Citizen of Arizona
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    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's garbage, the Mueller report is a pack of lies that even if taken at face value fail to show any obstruction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Amash is making up garbage and nobody here will even try to defend it when confronted with how wrong he is, you all just ignore the facts and parrot the talking points over and over.
    What would you have to say about the points raised by the group Republicans for the Rule of Law? This video of theirs also goes over specific instances of obstruction:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmR6ooHCieA

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by yinzer38 View Post
    What would you have to say about the points raised by the group Republicans for the Rule of Law? This video of theirs also goes over specific instances of obstruction:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmR6ooHCieA
    The investigation was illegal, expressing an opinion to Comey is NOT obstruction. Comey was fired for Cause on the recommendation of Rosenstein, The President is master and commander of the DOJ and has every right to use "prosecutorial discretion" to shut down an illegal bogus investigation McGhan is lying.

    Here is a nice summary:

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Justin Amash has become an albatross upon the liberty movement in the last week. Through his calls to impeach President Trump, Amash has burned much of the goodwill the movement had built up through the actions of Rand Paul and Thomas Massie during the Trump era. Worst of all, he did so base upon logic which is fundamentally anti libertarian.
    Amash has posted several tweet threads supporting a narrative on obstruction not dissimilar from those pushed by networks such as CNN. In his latest thread, among many other things, Amash lays out an argument on obstruction which will strike any libertarian who has read the Mueller report as absurd.
    For the vast majority of Americans who have not read the entire report, I have broken down below exactly why Amash is wrong below. I list Amash’s six reasons in quotes, with my response directly below each one.


    “1. Trump asked the FBI director to stop investigating Michael Flynn, who had been his campaign adviser and national security adviser, and who had already committed a crime by lying to the FBI.”

    First of all, there’s no evidence that this conversation took place beyond the word of James Comey. We have his claim, and a “memo” that he illegally leaked to the press. The same James Comey who submitted a FISA warrant application which claimed Christopher Steele’s dossier was verified, when he months later went on to call it unverified when testifying to Congress. Comey’s word vs Trump’s is what you would base an obstruction charge on if this were your argument. That doesn’t pass the laugh test.

    Even if you can get past both of those things, they did not let the Flynn thing go and the POTUS never pushed them to do so afterwards, therefore no actions resulted from these alleged conversations between the POTUS and the FBI Director. No obstructive act can happen if no act happened.

    “2. After AG Sessions recused himself from the Russian investigation on the advice of DoJ ethics lawyers, Trump directly asked Sessions to reverse his recusal so that he could retain control over the investigation and help the president.”

    Asking the Attorney General to remain in charge of an investigation does not end the investigation, it does not impede the investigation, it does not deprive the investigation of any item required to complete it, and therefore it does not obstruct. Furthermore, the reasoning Amash spells out for why Trump did this is pure speculation. There are competing speculations which are just as valid as his, if not moreso. Some were even in the Mueller report.
    Even if asking someone not to recuse themselves would rise to the level of obstruction in normal circumstances (it wouldn’t), the POTUS has Article II power over his inferior officers. Even if you could get past the fact that there’s no obstructive act, no attempt to end the investigation, no misconduct of any kind, the argument fails because of that. Even if you can get past both of those things, Sessions remained recused, therefore no actions resulted from these conversations between the POTUS and the Attorney General. No obstructive act can happen if no act happened. Next argument.

    “3. Trump directed the White House counsel, Don McGahn, to have Special Counsel Mueller removed on the basis of pretextual conflicts of interest that Trump’s advisers had already told him were “ridiculous” and could not justify removing the special counsel.”


    Like keeping on Sessions as the AG, removing Mueller as head of the special counsel does not end the special counsel. It does not end the investigation, it does not impede the investigation, it does not deprive the investigation of any item required to complete it, and therefore it does not obstruct.
    This makes the reasoning for having done this irrelevant, but the implication that the reasoning matters goes to the notion of corrupt intent, so let’s briefly address that. Donald Trump had what he described as a “nasty business transaction” involving Robert Mueller. Mueller applied to be the FBI director and didn’t get the job. Mueller was a close personal friend of James Comey. For all of these reasons, Trump may very well have thought the conflicts were legitimate and disagreed with McGahn. Therefore, proving intent is also virtually impossible.
    Furthermore, and most importantly, McGahn did not follow through on this alleged request. Not a single action was taken as the result of these discussions between the POTUS and his White House Counsel. Since no act was taken at all, there was no obstructive act. Next argument.

    “4. When that event was publicly reported, Trump asked that McGahn make a public statement and create a false internal record stating that Trump had not asked him to fire the special counsel, and suggested that McGahn would be fired if he did not comply.”

    Let’s say that this was true, and Donald Trump intentionally told Don McGahn to lie to the public about Trump asking him to fire Mueller. Lying to the media and the American people is not lying to the special counsel, and therefore cannot possibly be considered obstruction of justice. Since the special counsel never asked him this question directly, it could not have possibly been necessary to their investigation, so the idea that this statement to the press deprived them of something necessary to their investigation is refuted by the record.

    Furthermore, Mueller actually laid out a fairly strong argument that Trump genuinely disputed McGahn’s characterization that he told McGahn to fire Mueller. Finally, McGahn refused the alleged request and never called Rod Rosenstein to make this case. So, even if you threw the entire above paragraph away, no action resulted from these discussions between the POTUS and his White House Counsel. That fact alone makes any obstruction argument absurd.

    “5. Trump asked Corey Lewandowski, his former campaign manager, to tell AG Sessions to limit the special counsel’s investigation only to future election interference. Trump said Lewandowski should tell Sessions he was fired if he would not meet with him.”

    Similarly to the above, Trump disputes this characterization, and Lewandowski says he refused the alleged order and never told Sessions to do this. The only evidence you have that it took place is the word of a former campaign manager, and even if you could prove it happened there wasn’t a single action which resulted from these alleged discussions. So, you have the problem of it being one mans word against another, and then the problem of no action having resulted from the alleged discussion. That makes the case that an obstructive act occurred untenable.

    “6. Trump used his pardon power to influence his associates, including Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen, not to fully cooperate with the investigation.”

    That is just plainly false. Let’s break down what Amash is claiming that Mueller laid out as evidence of Trump ‘using his pardon power’ in these cases:
    What Mueller claimed that Trump and Trump aides said to Cohen consisted of support lines such as “the POTUS wants to check in and see if you’re okay”, “hang in there”, “stay strong”, “the POTUS says he loves you and not to worry” and “You are loved, stay well tonight, you have friends in high places”. This was all in the aftermath of Cohen’s office being raided by the feds. None of these messages mention a pardon or hint at anything transactional. The notion that these messages amounted to dangling his pardon power over Cohen is absurd.
    The only thing Mueller says in relation to pardons is that Cohen claims he discussed one with the POTUS’s personal counsel, and that he understood the counsel’s responses to these questions that “(Cohen) would be fine” to mean that he would get a pardon as long as he stayed on message. A convicted perjurer saying that he understood this as an implication. Not exactly ironclad credibility or a bombshell allegation.
    The evidence in regards to Manafort is even flimsier. It consists of two pieces of evidence: Trump saying Manafort was treated unfairly in public and Guiliani suggesting in TV interviews that nonspecific people may be pardoned, but only once the investigation ends.
    In the case of both, Mueller brought up the instances of Trump saying that neither Cohen nor Manafort would “flip”. At every point where Trump says this he makes clear that he believes this is a witch hunt investigation, and that “flipping” means they will tell the investigators a falsehood at his expense in exchange for a reduced sentence. These lines are no evidence of obstruction, they are evidence that Trump knew he was dealing with dirty cops.
    To review, not only did Amash not manage to point out an obstructive act in his analysis of the Mueller report, his impotent attempt exposes the inherent weakness of the argument for obstruction. 5 of the 6 things he brings up involve conversations (some of which are disputed by Trump himself) between Trump and various campaign and White House officials, where in each case the White House or campaign official in question did not act upon what was supposedly discussed.
    In each of these cases, since there was no act taken at all, there can be no obstructive act.
    In the final case, the notion of dangling pardons for Cohen and Manafort, Amash relies on generic well wishing and Guiliani stating the President’s pardon powers as a basis for the notion that there was an implication that President Trump would pardon these people. No quid pro quo was established, no offer was ever made, and no pardon was ever granted.
    Make no mistake, ladies and gentlemen, you should be very angry at Justin Amash for the position his anti liberty stance has put every Liberty Conservative in with the GOP base. His pro FBI crusade, if it is allowed to be seen as the libertarian position, may have severe negative repercussions upon our movement which last for a very long time.


    https://libertyconservativenews.com/...tion-argument/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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