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Thread: Amash quits House Freedom Caucus

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Speak out against trump here, and you get 36+ posts of venom and hate a day directed at you by an obvious paid propagandist.
    Wrong.

    Speak out about Trump about something legitimate. I'll agree. Go ahead, check my post history.

    Call for Trump's impeachment due to a nonsense "investigation" run by people who hate you and who are covering up their own crimes, where an opposition party willingly used Russian disinformation to illegally spy on and attempt to entrap a rightfully elected President of the United States, while in the process throwing out all fourth amendment protections of the victim... yea, you aren't a libertarian. You are a big government, police state stooge suffering from TDS.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    With regards to Republican voters, do you think Amash has more influence, less influence or the same in June 2019 compared to June 2016?
    I think Amash is gonna die on this hill. I bet he won't get re-elected. I like the guy but I just think went the wrong direction for his career on this one. I hope he has a good plan B is all I can say.



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  5. #33
    His votes still have value . That's probably it for the future as he will not be deemed trustworthy by anyone in any party . He had to have known that so I assume he is making plans accordingly . He gets a pass from me . Maybe in his district , I do not know .
    Do something Danke

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Sounds like he was just making it official.
    Ya , been a non participant I guess since trump backed Sanford primary challenger . I always liked Sanford .
    Do something Danke

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The left never pays off, especially when you compromise on garbage as opposed to cooperating on things that are legitimate shared interests, he will gain nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    The problem with this concept is that Democrat voters don't support the 4th Amendment (or any others). Additionally they only pretend to be anti-war when there is a Republican president and right now they care much more about free healthcare, more illegal immigration, banning guns and making anyone that earns more than them pay "their fair share" of taxes.

    The left wants the constitution abolished, not adhered to.

    Liberals want more government, not less.

    Democrats want to restrict freedom, not increase it.

    Justin Amash won't be welcomed by the left any more than Megyn Kelly.
    Yes, the list of Democrats who oppose war and support the 4th Amendment is small. But there are some of them, and Amash can co-sponsor bills with them.

    But as a whole, there is a reason that “libertarian” minded politicians join the GOP rather than the Democrats. For the most part, the Dems are disingenuous on rights issues and anti-war stances (they are pandering for votes), and they would draw and quarter (if they could) any politician who calls for decreasing the size and scope of government (and that is just more pandering for votes, as to the Dem leadership establishment, socialism is a means for them to profit and fleece the public, along with the gullible votes it buys).
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
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  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Amash, Sanford, and RPF are all excellent examples of the lengths to which trump / TPTB (which are the exact same thing, of course) are going to squash those who are willing to make a stand in continuing Ron Paul's work. Speak out against trump in the political realm, and you get a primary challenger that is well-funded by the globalists. Speak out against trump here, and you get 36+ posts of venom and hate a day directed at you by an obvious paid propagandist.
    he didn't just speak out against Trump. He spoke in favor of the spying apparatus in this country. He gave power and credence to the slime ball deep state that releases memos to the press to help control public opinion.

  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Yes, the list of Democrats who oppose war and support the 4th Amendment is small. But there are some of them, and Amash can co-sponsor bills with them.

    But as a whole, there is a reason that “libertarian” minded politicians join the GOP rather than the Democrats. For the most part, the Dems are disingenuous on rights issues and anti-war stances (they are pandering for votes), and they would draw and quarter (if they could) any politician who calls for decreasing the size and scope of government (and that is just more pandering for votes, as to the Dem leadership establishment, socialism is a means for them to profit and fleece the public, along with the gullible votes it buys).
    I see today that Amash sided with the Democrats to vote for holding AG Barr in contempt. There is no legit explanation, this is just full blown TDS.
    Citizen of Arizona
    @cleaner4d4

    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    I see today that Amash sided with the Democrats to vote for holding AG Barr in contempt. There is no legit explanation, this is just full blown TDS.
    YAY President Mike Pence!

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    I see today that Amash sided with the Democrats to vote for holding AG Barr in contempt. There is no legit explanation, this is just full blown TDS.
    I am seriously beginning to question his mental well-being.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  12. #40
    Pence will put these house dems in the corner where they belong .
    Do something Danke



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    I see today that Amash sided with the Democrats to vote for holding AG Barr in contempt. There is no legit explanation, this is just full blown TDS.
    I always thought Amash was above TDS but seeing how many I respected and still respect here on RPF have very obvious TDS, I guess Amash is just human after all.

    Still love him but damn, wrong battle wrong time. In the trenches of war, Amash chose to strap on a vest and dive head first at the general, unfortunately his vest malfunctioned and detonated too far from the target.
    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]

  15. #42
    My favorite Amash conspiracy is that he knew he would get primaried because of the state departments war against Americans who don't want to go to war with Iran and he thought he could pull some democrat voters and keep his seat.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    I always thought Amash was above TDS but seeing how many I respected and still respect here on RPF have very obvious TDS, I guess Amash is just human after all.

    Still love him but damn, wrong battle wrong time. In the trenches of war, Amash chose to strap on a vest and dive head first at the general, unfortunately his vest malfunctioned and detonated too far from the target.
    Leeroy Jenkins.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
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    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    How does his leaving the House "Freedom" Caucus indicate any of these things?
    "Muh wall" trumps everything. (No pun indented.) It matters not that the wall does NOTHING to stop asylum seekers. It maters not that Trump violated the second amendment through executive order. Trump is giving lip service to keep out them "invaders" and that's all that matters to some folks.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    "Muh wall" trumps everything. (No pun indented.) It matters not that the wall does NOTHING to stop asylum seekers. It maters not that Trump violated the second amendment through executive order. Trump is giving lip service to keep out them "invaders" and that's all that matters to some folks.
    I believe that the wall rhetoric is designed to convince people there is a problem with illegal immigration and move the immigration debate away from defacto amnesty for all and birthright citizenship for illegal immigrants, even if it wasn't that's what it accomplished so I don't really have a lot of complaints there.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    I always thought Amash was above TDS but seeing how many I respected and still respect here on RPF have very obvious TDS, I guess Amash is just human after all.

    Still love him but damn, wrong battle wrong time. In the trenches of war, Amash chose to strap on a vest and dive head first at the general, unfortunately his vest malfunctioned and detonated too far from the target.
    I haven't seen anyone here call for Trump's impeachment. I have seen people oppose wrong headed Trump policies. The border wall is nothing but a slush fund for government contractors. Current law requires the border patrol to bring in immigrants who get to the Mexican side of the wall. The Trump bumpfire stock ban set a dangerous precedent by allowing a president to ban a gun accessory by executive order. Yet the blind Trump defenders were all "Well it hasn't happened yet" (now it has) or "The courts will strike it down" (they've upheld it.) Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris said she'll ban assault rifles by executive order. Trump has set the precedent. All she has to do if she becomes president (that likely won't happen thankfully....but it could), is ban one accessory at a time. Ban high capacity magazines through a Trump style executive order. Then ban the ability for a gun to receive magazines altogether because everyone knows you can 3D print your own high capacity magazine at home if you really want one.

    Then there's the face scanning cameras at the airport Trump put in by executive order because "We've got to fight illegal immigration don't ya know?" I worry about how many RPF people I respected and still respect have seemingly been willing to accept ANY violation of civil liberty in the name of fighting an "invasion" that's not really an invasion. And I am bothered by the hyperbole and extremism being used on the subject. The lie from the other side is "If you don't call it an invasion then you are for open border and think everything that is going on will illegal immigration is just peachy." The other side sound like the old drug warriors. "We must give the state unlimited power to fight drugs because if that doesn't happen our country will go to hell." And the drug war made the problem worse. Since Trump's been in office fighting the border war....it's gotten worse. Maybe it would have anyway. Maybe not. Who knows? But well reasoned thought that is critical of Trump's approach is not allowed because someone (not saying you) will label it "TDS."

    That said, I disagree with Amash's stance on impeachment. The Russia investigation was a farce from the beginning. I have not even seen any evidence that Russia "meddled in the election." There is no proof that Russia hacked the DNC server. There is just the word of an investigation by a private firm. I thought democrats were against privatization of what is normally done by the government? Certainly there was no collusion with Russian meddling that might not have even happened. There was unconstitutional spying on a political campaign based on a phony Russian dossier paid for by the Clinton campaign. And yeah, Trump didn't cooperate with what was a bogus investigation. So what? Besides, impeachment is a political process, not a legal one. Either the votes are there or they are not. In the senate, they are not. Stupid move by Amash. But he's still far more pro liberty than Trump. Shame on those who would throw him under the bus for a gun grabbing, police state promoting, Julian Assange arresting president like Trump. Sure, Trump has done some things I like. The First Step Act is at the top of the list. But I'm not going to blindly defend the man just because I like a few of his policies.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I haven't seen anyone here call for Trump's impeachment. I have seen people oppose wrong headed Trump policies. The border wall is nothing but a slush fund for government contractors. Current law requires the border patrol to bring in immigrants who get to the Mexican side of the wall. The Trump bumpfire stock ban set a dangerous precedent by allowing a president to ban a gun accessory by executive order. Yet the blind Trump defenders were all "Well it hasn't happened yet" (now it has) or "The courts will strike it down" (they've upheld it.) Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris said she'll ban assault rifles by executive order. Trump has set the precedent. All she has to do if she becomes president (that likely won't happen thankfully....but it could), is ban one accessory at a time. Ban high capacity magazines through a Trump style executive order. Then ban the ability for a gun to receive magazines altogether because everyone knows you can 3D print your own high capacity magazine at home if you really want one.

    Then there's the face scanning cameras at the airport Trump put in by executive order because "We've got to fight illegal immigration don't ya know?" I worry about how many RPF people I respected and still respect have seemingly been willing to accept ANY violation of civil liberty in the name of fighting an "invasion" that's not really an invasion. And I am bothered by the hyperbole and extremism being used on the subject. The lie from the other side is "If you don't call it an invasion then you are for open border and think everything that is going on will illegal immigration is just peachy." The other side sound like the old drug warriors. "We must give the state unlimited power to fight drugs because if that doesn't happen our country will go to hell." And the drug war made the problem worse. Since Trump's been in office fighting the border war....it's gotten worse. Maybe it would have anyway. Maybe not. Who knows? But well reasoned thought that is critical of Trump's approach is not allowed because someone (not saying you) will label it "TDS."

    That said, I disagree with Amash's stance on impeachment. The Russia investigation was a farce from the beginning. I have not even seen any evidence that Russia "meddled in the election." There is no proof that Russia hacked the DNC server. There is just the word of an investigation by a private firm. I thought democrats were against privatization of what is normally done by the government? Certainly there was no collusion with Russian meddling that might not have even happened. There was unconstitutional spying on a political campaign based on a phony Russian dossier paid for by the Clinton campaign. And yeah, Trump didn't cooperate with what was a bogus investigation. So what? Besides, impeachment is a political process, not a legal one. Either the votes are there or they are not. In the senate, they are not. Stupid move by Amash. But he's still far more pro liberty than Trump. Shame on those who would throw him under the bus for a gun grabbing, police state promoting, Julian Assange arresting president like Trump. Sure, Trump has done some things I like. The First Step Act is at the top of the list. But I'm not going to blindly defend the man just because I like a few of his policies.
    No one wants to impeach Trump who understand you get MIke Pence or Nancy Pelosi if he gets impeached. Everyone that does is just wrongheaded, I understand not wanting to politically support him, but impeaching Trump would give us Mike Pence or if we impeach Mike Pence we get Nancy Pelosi. Its not like impeachment means we have a do over and have another election or get Ron Paul.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    I believe that the wall rhetoric is designed to convince people there is a problem with illegal immigration and move the immigration debate away from defacto amnesty for all and birthright citizenship for illegal immigrants, even if it wasn't that's what it accomplished so I don't really have a lot of complaints there.
    Now just take everything you just said about "wall rhetoric" and apply it to my modest proposal about helping Mexico build a wall on its southern border and you will understand my position. It's not that I'm for "nation building" nor am I opposed to taking sensible steps to fixing the immigration problem like hiring new judges. But I am 100% against expanding the police state inside the United States in the name of stopping an "invasion" that isn't really an invasion. Enough with the hyperbole. My "solution" is demonstrably more effective and less ruinous of civil liberties inside the United States than "muh wall" which requires taking ranchers' lands by eminent domain and splitting them in half and installing face scanning cameras (Alex Jones used to speak out against that) and wasting billions on something that won't keep out a single migrant. But spending that same money to hire judges to process the asylum seekers would do more to fix the actual problem then either my modest proposal on "muh wall." I don't know if Trump's "deal" with Mexico actually does anything or if its more political grandstanding. Time will tell.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    No one wants to impeach Trump who understand you get MIke Pence or Nancy Pelosi if he gets impeached. Everyone that does is just wrongheaded, I understand not wanting to politically support him, but impeaching Trump would give us Mike Pence or if we impeach Mike Pence we get Nancy Pelosi. Its not like impeachment means we have a do over and have another election or get Ron Paul.
    I have no opinion on Mike Pence. I dislike Pelosi, but there is no way she would become president by a Trump impeachment because there is nothing tainting Mike Pence. If there were he could just resign and Trump could take on a new VP prior to impeachment like Nixon did with Ford. But, as I already said, I disagree with Amash on impeachment. It's a waste of time for one and the reasoning for it, obstruction of a bogus investigation, is lame. I just wouldn't through Amash under the bus for this one mistake.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Now just take everything you just said about "wall rhetoric" and apply it to my modest proposal about helping Mexico build a wall on its southern border and you will understand my position. It's not that I'm for "nation building" nor am I opposed to taking sensible steps to fixing the immigration problem like hiring new judges. But I am 100% against expanding the police state inside the United States in the name of stopping an "invasion" that isn't really an invasion. Enough with the hyperbole. My "solution" is demonstrably more effective and less ruinous of civil liberties inside the United States than "muh wall" which requires taking ranchers' lands by eminent domain and splitting them in half and installing face scanning cameras (Alex Jones used to speak out against that) and wasting billions on something that won't keep out a single migrant. But spending that same money to hire judges to process the asylum seekers would do more to fix the actual problem then either my modest proposal on "muh wall." I don't know if Trump's "deal" with Mexico actually does anything or if its more political grandstanding. Time will tell.
    Yeah but that doesn't solve the problem, the wall isn't going to solve the problem, but it gets people to support him and moves the rhetoric away from the opposite talking point which is defacto amnesty and open borders. Think of it like a tug of war, Trump gets all of these people tugging the debate to the direction away from blanket amnesty and pro illegal immigration and open borders and government benefits for illegals. Without winning, or getting all of these people tugging the debate into that direction the other side wins, and you get nothing and you get open borders, and executive orders giving people citizenship. If you take out all of those people tugging the rope in our direction because they want a wall we lose the debate.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Yeah but that doesn't solve the problem, the wall isn't going to solve the problem, but it gets people to support him and moves the rhetoric away from the opposite talking point which is defacto amnesty and open borders. Think of it like a tug of war, Trump gets all of these people tugging the debate to the direction away from blanket amnesty and pro illegal immigration and open borders and government benefits for illegals. Without winning, or getting all of these people tugging the debate into that direction the other side wins, and you get nothing and you get open borders, and executive orders giving people citizenship. If you take out all of those people tugging the rope in our direction because they want a wall we lose the debate.
    What doesn't solve the problem? Hiring more judges to process the asylum seekers so the ones that don't qualify can be legally deported and the left can't say anything about it because they got "due process?" If that doesn't solve the problem it certainly is a step in the right direction. And doing things just to "rally supporters" is a horrible way to run national policy. Hey, maybe Trump did the bumpfire stock ban to "rally supporters."

    As for the stupid wall.

    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #52
    Would it be right to assume that Amash has committed political suicide?
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I have no opinion on Mike Pence. I dislike Pelosi, but there is no way she would become president by a Trump impeachment because there is nothing tainting Mike Pence. If there were he could just resign and Trump could take on a new VP prior to impeachment like Nixon did with Ford. But, as I already said, I disagree with Amash on impeachment. It's a waste of time for one and the reasoning for it, obstruction of a bogus investigation, is lame. I just wouldn't through Amash under the bus for this one mistake.
    I don't think that things you disagree with about Trump are things you would agree with about Pence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    All you need to know about Mike Pence......is an article praising him by Jennifer Rubin.

    The Post reports on Indiana Gov. Mike Pence’s now very visible interest in a presidential run in 2016. He certainly has support from all quadrants of the GOP and is not off-putting to either establishment or far-right voters and groups.

    At this point his greatest advantages may be what he is not. He is not a U.S. senator. He did not take part in the shutdown. He does not lack personality or presence. He does not worry strong social, economic or defense conservatives. He is not a newcomer to the national scene, but neither is he an overexposed commodity. He is not a political novice. He does not have to spend time and money getting reelected this year. He is not a purveyor of paranoia about government or a gloom-and-doom candidate here to warn us that the United States is well on the road to ruin. He is not, in other words, hobbled by one or more of the maladies that afflict other potential 2016 candidates.
    ...
    As for the substance of the message, Pence is perhaps uniquely able to carry out a vision of modernization. That means preparing students to work in the global economy (as he is doing with his home-grown version of Common Core); taking a centralized welfare state (including health care and entitlements) and making it sleek, effective, sustainable and user-friendly (not to mention cheaper); fixing a broken immigration system to promote American growth; and remaking American foreign policy to address the diverse 21st-century threats we face from jihadist terrorists and from countries like China, Russia and Iran.
    ...
    More:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/.../09/why-pence/
    The neoconservative dream candidate: Common Core, Welfare, Amnesty and "start more wars" foreign policy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    More like fast-track to the Presidency...

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    What doesn't solve the problem? Hiring more judges to process the asylum seekers so the ones that don't qualify can be legally deported and the left can't say anything about it because they got "due process?" If that doesn't solve the problem it certainly is a step in the right direction. And doing things just to "rally supporters" is a horrible way to run national policy. Hey, maybe Trump did the bumpfire stock ban to "rally supporters."

    As for the stupid wall.

    LOL i just said walls don't work so you agree with me atleast there, I disagree about losing to the democrats so they can install more democrats works, Trump is directly moving the debate that we should get rid of the incentives rather than move the debate towards giving them more incentives.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    I don't think that things you disagree with about Trump are things you would agree with about Pence.
    Mike Pence supported the bumpfire stock ban? That's news to me. But like I said, I have no opinion about Mike Pence. Which means I could care less if he replaced Trump as POTUS. That doesn't mean I disagree with Pence less than I do Trump. I just, at this point, don't disagree with him more. But again, impeachment is a stupid idea. You don't have to try to convince me that it is.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    LOL i just said walls don't work so you agree with me atleast there, I disagree about losing to the democrats so they can install more democrats works, Trump is directly moving the debate that we should get rid of the incentives rather than move the debate towards giving them more incentives.
    Hiring more immigration judges to process asylum seekers so that more of them can be legally deported = losing to the democrats? Please explain.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Hiring more immigration judges to process asylum seekers so that more of them can be legally deported = losing to the democrats? Please explain.
    Clinton would be tripping over her own balls to import more poeple here if she won. Are you really saying that charged rhetoric that helps you win elections isn't more effective than losing?

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    I don't think that things you disagree with about Trump are things you would agree with about Pence.
    I can't speak for jmdrake, but on some of the biggest issues, Pence would be better than Trump. Pence is a genuine principled conservative, with both the good and bad aspects of that. Trump is a loose cannon. I can't see Pence pushing tariffs the way Trump is, which is a big deal. And I'm not sure exactly how Pence would handle immigration, but he'd at least have some consistency and coherence in his position without all the regime uncertainty that comes from Trump's mindlessly flippant and constantly contradictory statements about it. It's very possible that Pence would drive us more speedily into war than Trump, and if so, that would negate his positives.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I can't speak for jmdrake, but on some of the biggest issues, Pence would be better than Trump. Pence is a genuine principled conservative, with both the good and bad aspects of that. Trump is a loose cannon. I can't see Pence pushing tariffs the way Trump is, which is a big deal. And I'm not sure exactly how Pence would handle immigration, but he'd at least have some consistency and coherence in his position without all the regime uncertainty that comes from Trump's mindlessly flippant and constantly contradictory statements about it. It's very possible that Pence would drive us more speedily into war than Trump, and if so, that would negate his positives.
    I knew the biggest supporters of impeachment wanted President Mike Pence. Was this the deep states plan the whole time to install Pence because he had no chance any other way?

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Clinton would be tripping over her own balls to import more poeple here if she won. Are you really saying that charged rhetoric that helps you win elections isn't more effective than losing?
    Perhaps. But the end result of that might have been no worse than the end result of the surge of illegal immigration that Trump has brought on, which is worse than it was under Obama. Hillary could have been a continuation of the Obama status quo. Trump, on the other hand, has given us the worst of both worlds on that.

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