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Thread: We Are Destroyed

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Does their failure to recognize excuse or otherwise validate the actions?

    A man rushes toward you with a gun yelling "this is where you die". He thinks he is in the right, seeing no harm. What do YOU do - stand idly to see how things play out, or do you take action? This is exactly what happened to me on 6/3 when a truck driver on I-64 threatened to murder my wife and myself. He waved a Glock at us, then got out of his truck, approached us, say "this is where you die", and then walked right up to the front of our vehicle, at which point I'd had quite enough of threats and proceeded to run him over with the Subaru. His intentions were irrelevant. His threats, however, were not and I took action with my primary weapon.
    Self-defense is the only justified use of violence. (I feel obliged to say this, because you have repeatedly tried to paint me as a pacifist.)

    The threat of governmental intrusion is always there. Does this mean everyone should send their cars into the homes of the nearest government employee? (Of course not!)

    Ultimately, each person is responsible for how he or she handles tyranny and tyrants -- agents of the State, or not -- if/when those interactions occur.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    We agree, but the fact is that they currently face no consequence that dissuades, which is why they continue to misbehave.

    .

    Perhaps, perhaps not. Assuming it is so, it is quite clear that we are nowhere nearly having put enough through said system. So what now?



    You persist in making this brand of claim, yet no less than twenty years of internet communications have as yet failed to produce the results you claim. One can no longer credibly assert that awareness is lacking. Awareness not to the liking of the beholder is being vehemently rejected. People are not interested in truths that chafe, and so they call it "lies" and do what humans have always done.
    You've never heard of bubbling?


    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Maybe. The ignorance is now so deep and widespread, it appears that no amount of state transgression will rouse the rest to your much vaunted civil disobedience. If the trespass we now endure is not enough to give cause, then pray you tell what amount is? How far must the American people be debased before they say "ENOUGH!"? Thus far, we are laid low and show no indication of refusal. This bodes poorly.
    Enough people must become negatively affected before their cries of "Enough!" are finally heard. The public's perception of police has drastically changed in recent decades, though the odds are still certainly in the State's favor. No one wants to believe that their governments -- more accurately, the people working within it -- are corrupt and reckless, but after enough exposure, the truth inevitably comes out.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    It could well be, I acknowledge, but there is little to no indication of it. That may just be the nature of these sorts of things... but equally so it may not be. Since neither of us have lived through such times before, I will suggest that neither of us have sufficient basis for prediction beyond mere speculation. In my favor, however, rests the long history of human corruption that has lead to the rise of countless tyrants whose trickery has remained unchanged for thousands of years, yet has worked like a charm every time. We fail to learn from the errors of our forebears precisely because to do so requires too much effort and risk. Any wiggle room that allows for rationalizing our lassitude, cowardice, and greed is made full use with a predictability that leaves "chance" as a non-factor. Humans are rotten creatures in this regard and currently show no sign of improvement. Were this not the case, I daresay that the likes of Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Mao, Pot, and so on would never have been possible, just as the Tsars, kings, and emperors would not have in times longer past because Freemen would have slaughtered them and their families in erasure of the stain upon what would have been the good name of humanity those bloodlines represented. There would have been real and horrific consequences in store for any and all men daring to stand in violation of their fellows. But no - we have consistently demurred of our responsibilities to our freedoms, acceding to the felonious mandates of men with no more authority to rule YOU than does a cockroach possess.

    I do not believe you will be able to slice this pie in a way that paints us in any better a light, but please do give it a whirl. Once again, I am open to persuasion, but the argument must be a good one.
    It all depends on where you want to look, and how you want to look at it. (Freedom may be declining in America -- and elsewhere -- but protests like the Gillette Jaunes and the more recent anti-extradition protests in Hong Kong show that people aren't completely complacent, yet.)



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Proph View Post
    "The Meaner's" ignorance will eventually catch up with them.
    Perhaps, but thus far it has not. Besides, what do you mean by this, specifically? You would seem to imply that in so catching, the average boob will see the light of truth and come around to reason. I am yet to be convinced of this.

    (I used to think that your "Themme" and "Theye" approach was useful, even revolutionary, but thinking like this for too long encourages collectivist tendencies.)
    For too long? However long Theye exist as a functional monobloc tyrant, I would say that the notion remains valid.


    Translated: "Violence will solve the problem!"
    It very well might. Employing violence to rid oneself of a tyrant is not the problem. The challenge lies in not becoming the latest tyrant in the wake of victory. We're actually fairly good at killing off tyrants when we are of a mind to do so. What we suck at is managing afterward.

    What happens when Theye think the same thing about you?
    Depends on Theire nature. Lenin and Stalin murdered tens of millions, as did Mao and the rest of those communist swine.

    Your implicit calls to action violate natural law as much as any tyrant's
    ,

    I'm not calling anyone to action. If we as a statistical gestalt have no interest in our freedoms, who am I to shove them down everyones' throats?

    and could easily be interpreted as a threat.
    Only by those whose threat assessment skills leave far too much to be desired.

    Thumping your chest only exacerbates the situation. (You sound like Bolton, Pompeo, and company attempting regime change: "It'll be quick, a matter of days or weeks at most!" We all know that plans never go so smoothly, and you ought to by now, too.)
    You have read into my words that which is not there. If it were, I'd happily cop to it. I don't hide my positions on such matters.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "Itís just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill peopleís fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.




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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Proph View Post
    Self-defense is the only justified use of violence. (I feel obliged to say this, because you have repeatedly tried to paint me as a pacifist.)
    two things. Firstly, self-defense does not preclude preemptive strikes. One is not obliged to wait for someone to take a shot at them before taking action.

    Secondly, I have painted you as anything. I don't know you. I don't even know what sex you are, so trust me when I say that I paint nothing of the sort. As for being a pacifist, I myself am just that. What I am not is PASSIVE. The two are quite different.

    The threat of governmental intrusion is always there. Does this mean everyone should send their cars into the homes of the nearest government employee? (Of course not!)
    That would depend on the totality of the circumstance. "Of course not" implies "never", and never is a very long time.


    Ultimately, each person is responsible for how he or she handles tyranny and tyrants -- agents of the State, or not -- if/when those interactions occur.
    That is perhaps so, but it makes no matter insofar as one's failure to effectively address the tyrant and his stooges. Tolerance of the intolerable begets nothing other than more of the same.


    The term is unfamiliar.

    Enough people must become negatively affected before their cries of "Enough!" are finally heard.
    This assumes Theye would give a rat's patootie. That is a very poor assumption to make.

    The public's perception of police has drastically changed in recent decades, though the odds are still certainly in the State's favor. No one wants to believe that their governments -- more accurately, the people working within it -- are corrupt and reckless, but after enough exposure, the truth inevitably comes out.
    I've lived in twelve states including NY, NJ, PA, FL, TX, IL, WA, CA, OR, AZ, CO, and WV. I've had these brands of conversations with thousands of people over the past 30 years and can tell you without equivocation that people are very aware of what is going on, for the most part. They just don't do anything about it. There is your problem.


    It all depends on where you want to look, and how you want to look at it. (Freedom may be declining in America -- and elsewhere -- but protests like the Gillette Jaunes and the more recent anti-extradition protests in Hong Kong show that people aren't completely complacent, yet.)
    People don't have to be completely complacent, but only sufficiently so in order for the tyrant to prevail.

    Humans may surprise themselves before all is said and done. Equally likely, they may not. Thus far, things do not look very promising, but who knows...
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "Itís just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill peopleís fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  6. #34
    Perhaps we should be focusing on education.

    Have we tried handing out pamphlets that explain to voters how their entire world view is immoral and that they should be doing things our way?
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    It very well might. Employing violence to rid oneself of a tyrant is not the problem. The challenge lies in not becoming the latest tyrant in the wake of victory. We're actually fairly good at killing off tyrants when we are of a mind to do so. What we suck at is managing afterward.
    "We" had better figure that out before "we" go toppling tyrannic regimes, then. (Communicate to educate. Such cannot be managed.)

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Proph View Post
    "We" had better figure that out before "we" go toppling tyrannic regimes, then.
    Unfortunately, we are most often not afforded such luxuries of time to perfect ourselves prior of taking action. When such choices are forced upon people and immediacy rules the day, they either act with the necessary dispatch, or watch as the window of opportunity to preserve themselves closes.

    The human world is often rather messy.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "Itís just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill peopleís fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Unfortunately, we are most often not afforded such luxuries of time to perfect ourselves prior of taking action. When such choices are forced upon people and immediacy rules the day, they either act with the necessary dispatch, or watch as the window of opportunity to preserve themselves closes.

    The human world is often rather messy.
    We have plenty of time to figure it out. There's no rush.

    If tyranny ever does happen, it's gonna be super far into the future.

    It's all sunshine and roses currently. Nope, no tyranny here. Everything is just hunky dory.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  10. #38
    I don't think you're ever gonna get around the need for leaders. I mean, jeez, look what happened to this place after Ron Paul retired. Whatever trivial differences we put aside to rally behind Ron have become full blown schisms.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I don't think you're ever gonna get around the need for leaders. I mean, jeez, look what happened to this place after Ron Paul retired. Whatever trivial differences we put aside to rally behind Ron have become full blown schisms.

    While I usually subscribe to "never say never", short of reset I don't think your position can be successfully dismantled.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "Itís just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill peopleís fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


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