Trump proposed Tax Increases highest since Clinton, potentially 1968

[Swordsmyth]

Apart from the immediate, negative effects for consumers, indeed, there are longer term consequences to subsidizing inefficient producers.

Yes, China is doing great damage to the world.

[r3volution 3.0]

Yes, China is doing great damage to the world.

Both the US and China are doing great damage to the world.

China subsidizes companies in the direct, old-fashioned way, and imposes tariffs.

The US subsidizes companies through permanently suppressed interest rates, various regulations, and now its own tariffs.

It's a $#@! world...

But the US is going to come away from this the loser; China will suffer but win in the end.

Pax (to use the term loosely) Americana is ending before our eyes.

...might want to teach your children Mandarin.

[Swordsmyth]

Both the US and China are doing great damage to the world.

China subsidizes companies in the direct, old-fashioned way, and imposes tariffs.

The US subsidizes companies through permanently suppressed interest rates, various regulations, and now its own tariffs.

It's a $#@! world...

But the US is going to come away from this the loser; China will suffer but win in the end.

Pax (to use the term loosely) Americana is ending before our eyes.

...might want to teach your children Mandarin.

China is the bigger offender and they will lose, they will probably collapse and split like they have so many times in their history.

[r3volution 3.0]

China is the bigger offender and they will lose, they will probably collapse and split like they have so many times in their history.

I guess we'll see.

...I wouldn't go long on whoever's making aircraft carriers these days.

[Intoxiklown]

If I don't buy any goods from Mexico or China, how much more do I pay in taxes?

I can absolutely assure you that (unless you are personally making everything you own, and live like a bushman) you buy products originating in either China or Mexico. While a lot of companies tout, "Made in the USA"...what most people don't know is that only a small percentage of assembly is required to be done in the US for it to warrant that "Made in the USA" label.

[Swordsmyth]

I can absolutely assure you that (unless you are personally making everything you own, and live like a bushman) you buy products originating in either China or Mexico. While a lot of companies tout, "Made in the USA"...what most people don't know is that only a small percentage of assembly is required to be done in the US for it to warrant that "Made in the USA" label.

Maybe that's not such a good thing.

[Intoxiklown]

Maybe that's not such a good thing.

Oh, I'm not saying it's either good or bad. Simply saying there is a lot more to the picture than a lot of people understand. The main reason to the US becoming a world leader in manufacturing for so many years was due to most of the rest of the industrial world being bombed to hell and back during WWII. Those days are gone, and anyone telling you different is either lying or stupid. Our labor costs alone insure that. Those labor costs are also what lead to people losing jobs....not some illegal immigrant, but rather automation. China's main advantage, besides cheap labor, was location as they're basically dead center of the area that generates most of the known supply chain which further reduced their production costs. But now that their economic standing has increased, they're simply shifting manufacturing to Africa.

There's a lot of people trying to make points that don't have the first clue as to manufacturing logistics. It's the same with people saying we have to stop illegal immigration, but offer ideas on everything but the root cause. The welfare state is the cause, illegal immigration is a symptom. It's all the same as it was yesterday and will be tomorrow....people looking busy doing nothing for votes

[tfurrh]

Maybe that's not such a good thing.

[nobody's_hero]

China is the bigger offender and they will lose, they will probably collapse and split like they have so many times in their history.

I'm not sure about that, honestly.

China will probably win because as a society, they have not adopted this new-age thinking that they've somehow moved beyond needing to work for a living and can indefinitely survive just by living off the fumes of wealth created by the productivity of previous generations. —That's inherently an American idea. Here in the USA, productivity/work-ethic is an old-fashioned idea and perpetual consumption is the future. In other words, we're fk'd, but not because of tariff policies. It's because we now think wealth comes from "consumption", not "creation".

[nikcers]

I'm not sure about that, honestly.

China will probably win because as a society, they have not adopted this new-age thinking that they've somehow moved beyond needing to work for a living and can indefinitely survive just by living off the fumes of wealth created by the productivity of previous generations. —That's inherently an American idea. Here in the USA, productivity/work-ethic is an old-fashioned idea and perpetual consumption is the future. In other words, we're fk'd.

That's what happens when public schools teach people to be manufacturing robots, and people don't have any options for better educations, and the school systems raise the kids because both parents are working. Some of the time they teach you how to go to college, and the colleges teach you a skill that doesn't give you any advantage in life.

[nobody's_hero]

That's what happens when public schools teach people to be manufacturing robots, and people don't have any options for better educations, and the school systems raise the kids because both parents are working. Some of the time they teach you how to go to college, and the colleges teach you a skill that doesn't give you any advantage in life.

Then it seems we've gone from one extreme to the other then. Schools these days are teaching people to be consumption robots. Apparently schools of libertarian economic thought have been infected as well. To me it just seems very Keynesian, and maybe that's why it feels out-of-place here—this idea that you can spend (consume) your way to prosperity. It's supposed to be absolutely disastrous when the government does it, but somehow it's perfectly viable when the average joe does it. We just can't seem to come to terms that it's a crappy idea in general.


We've gone from the guy whose job is to grow apples, to the guy whose job is to eat apples. Maybe it is not ideal to be too focused on one or the other, but I'll put it this way: only one of those two guys is gonna starve when times get tough.

[nikcers]

Then it seems we've gone from one extreme to the other then. Schools these days are teaching people to be consumption robots. Apparently schools of libertarian economic thought have been infected as well. To me it just seems very Keynesian—this idea that you can spend (consume) your way to prosperity.


We've gone from the guy whose job is to grow apples, to the guy whose job is to eat apples. Maybe it is not ideal to be too focused on one or the other, but I'll put it this way, only one of those two guys is gonna starve when times get tough.

I was lucky I went to a magnet school that taught me electronics and computers, and networking. I was told that was for ominous reason as well though, they said that was so I could operate and fix war machines like drones and kill people.

[nobody's_hero]

I was lucky I went to a magnet school that taught me electronics and computers, and networking. I was told that was for ominous reason as well though, they said that was so I could operate and fix war machines like drones and kill people.

Well they were nice enough to tell you. I doubt the average worker in China knows whether the microchip part he solders together is going into a phone or a drone.

[nikcers]

Well they were nice enough to tell you. I doubt the average worker in China knows whether the microchip part he solders together is going into a phone or a drone.

Sucks for them since I used that education they gave me to advocate for less war my entire adult life.

[Sammy]

The Invasion needs to be stopped...I don't like Taxes but I hate illegal immigration more!

[Swordsmyth]

I'm not sure about that, honestly.

China will probably win because as a society, they have not adopted this new-age thinking that they've somehow moved beyond needing to work for a living and can indefinitely survive just by living off the fumes of wealth created by the productivity of previous generations. —That's inherently an American idea. Here in the USA, productivity/work-ethic is an old-fashioned idea and perpetual consumption is the future. In other words, we're fk'd, but not because of tariff policies. It's because we now think wealth comes from "consumption", not "creation".

They have created a MUCH bigger misallocation of resources and debt bubble.
Americans will learn to work and produce again out of necessity if not before and as bad off as we are economically we are not dependent on centralized command and control of the party to the same degree as the Chinese system is.

I'm sure the Chinese people will survive and rebuild as they always have but the current system and government will not.

[axiomata]

Trump’s Tariffs Have Already Wiped Out Tax Bill Savings for Average Americans

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump...080000425.html

[enhanced_deficit]

From Drudge:

Tariffs Already Wiped Out Tax Savings for Average Americans...

[Krugminator2]

Nice to see Dotard's tariffs on Mexico aren't happening. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/07/trum...arm-goods.html

He gets to pretend like he is getting a small win over something that has nothing to do with immigration instead of losing 90-10 vote in the Senate that blocks them.

[Swordsmyth]

Trump’s Tariffs Have Already Wiped Out Tax Bill Savings for Average Americans

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump...080000425.html

From Drudge:

Tariffs Already Wiped Out Tax Savings for Average Americans...

Nonsense, they just make up numbers.