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Thread: Trump Unleashes Tariffs On Mexico "Until Illegal Immigration Stops"

  1. #241
    Which actions were not already agreed to before the tariff threat?



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  3. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Which actions were not already agreed to before the tariff threat?
    Why don't you tell us? And while at it; which supposed pre-agreed actions where actually being enforced before Trumps tariff threats?

  4. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Why don't you tell us? And while at it; which supposed pre-agreed actions where actually being enforced before Trumps tariff threats?
    I don't know, that's why I was asking.

  5. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    I don't know, that's why I was asking.
    Apparently the difference was that they agreed to a larger amount of troops and to accelerate the migrant protection protocols. This was from the original new york times hit piece that said that the tariff threat didn't make any difference in negotiations.
    Last edited by nikcers; 06-10-2019 at 02:10 PM.

  6. #245
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #246
    Mexico said Monday it will discuss a "safe third country" agreement with the United States -- in which migrants entering Mexican territory must apply for asylum there rather than the US -- if the flow of undocumented immigrants continues.Amid speculation about the contents of Mexico's deal to curb migration in order to avert President Donald Trump's threat of tariffs, Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard said he had rebuffed the US demand for such a measure, but agreed to revisit the matter in 45 days.
    "In the meeting with the vice president of the United States, they were insistent on the safe third country issue," Ebrard told a press conference, three days after reaching a last minute deal to avoid punitive tariffs over the surge of Central American migrants arriving at the US-Mexican border.
    "We told them -- I think it was the most important achievement of the negotiations -- 'let's set a time period to see if what Mexico is proposing will work, and if not, we'll sit down and see what additional measures'" are needed, he said.
    Ebrard, who led the Mexican negotiating team in marathon talks in Washington, spoke as Trump renewed his tariff threat over a secret provision in the deal.
    Trump tweeted that part of the deal would require approval by the Mexican Congress -- he did not give details -- and that "if for any reason the approval is not forthcoming, Tariffs will be reinstated!"


    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-discus...145207237.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #247
    After freezing the bank accounts of 26 individuals and entities amid a probe into human trafficking, Mexico has refused to name the account owners - some of which appear to have originated in the US, UK, African nations and Central America, according to Breitbart.
    Mexico's Finance and Tax Secretariat (SHCP) on Thursday announced that the 26 accounts had been seized. Diplomatic sources told Breitbart News that the probe is being personally overseen by UIF Director Santiago Nieto Castillo, who briefs Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador directly.
    The SHCP’s Financial Intelligence Unit (UIF) tracked suspicious transactions beginning in October 2018 to determine the sources of funding for the caravans. The results reportedly pointed to some monies coming from the U.S., U.K., African nations, and throughout Central America. Diplomatic sources revealed the investigation is still developing since the case was prioritized Monday as tensions over tariffs escalated. -Breitbart
    As part of Mexico's crackdown to avoid US tariffs, Mexican authorities also arrested two caravan organizers reportedly tied to the US-based group Pueblo Sin Fronteras, which helps migrants illegally cross into America. According to officials, the groups would demand money from some of the migrants.
    What's more, law enforcement sources revealed to Breitbart that the UIF investigation found four sanctioned accounts linked to human smuggling groups that are loyal to Mexican drug cartels in border towns. Two of the accounts were linked to Piedras Negras, which is tied to the Cartel Del Noreste faction of the Los Zetas, as well as an independent smuggler in the area. The two other accounts are believed to be tied to Gulf Cartel operators based in Reynosa, Tamaulipas.


    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...grant-caravans
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #248
    Mexican Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard said Brazil, Panama, and Guatemala may need to be brought in to help if a deal unveiled last week between Washington and Mexico fails to reduce the numbers of U.S.-bound migrants crossing Mexico.

    Ebrard said that if Mexico could not contain the migrant flows, other countries might also need to be involved.
    Asylum seekers from El Salvador and Honduras first pass through Guatemala when fleeing their homes, while Cubans and Haitians often fly first to Panama before heading to the United States through Mexico. Migrants from African countries regularly fly to Brazil before making the arduous journey north.
    "If the measures we are proposing are not successful, we have to discuss with the United States and with other countries, like Guatemala, Panama and Brazil," Ebrard said. "If we have to participate in a regional model like the one I have just described, we would have to present that to Congress."
    While he did not go into detail, Ebrard suggested that asylum seekers might have to seek refuge in the first country they reached after leaving their homeland.
    The governments of Brazil, Panama and Guatemala did not immediately reply to requests for comment.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-says-o...164016610.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Mexican Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard said Brazil, Panama, and Guatemala may need to be brought in to help if a deal unveiled last week between Washington and Mexico fails to reduce the numbers of U.S.-bound migrants crossing Mexico.

    Ebrard said that if Mexico could not contain the migrant flows, other countries might also need to be involved.
    Asylum seekers from El Salvador and Honduras first pass through Guatemala when fleeing their homes, while Cubans and Haitians often fly first to Panama before heading to the United States through Mexico. Migrants from African countries regularly fly to Brazil before making the arduous journey north.
    "If the measures we are proposing are not successful, we have to discuss with the United States and with other countries, like Guatemala, Panama and Brazil," Ebrard said. "If we have to participate in a regional model like the one I have just described, we would have to present that to Congress."
    While he did not go into detail, Ebrard suggested that asylum seekers might have to seek refuge in the first country they reached after leaving their homeland.
    The governments of Brazil, Panama and Guatemala did not immediately reply to requests for comment.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-says-o...164016610.html


    In a Free Market system...

    Companies compete, without government influence. The employer is free to hire/fire whoever it wants. Likewise, the employee, if not happy, is free to seek employment elsewhere.

    If enough people quit and flee the company (or country) and choose to work for another, over time the originating company would lose productivity, lose sales, and potentially face going out of business. A good businessperson who has invested their time, sweat and money will be forced to look at market conditions and attempt to compete in order to stay afloat, or even outperform.

    This aspect is being completely ignored and is certainly not in the "news".

    So, until we get back to the root of things, things will never improve. You can keep putting band aids on, putting the noose around your throat, but the end result is the root problem is not being discussed or dealt with.

    All government solutions to restrict, provide handouts, etc. do nothing but exasperate problems that government caused in the first place.

    Other countries may have their own problems, but until our country takes the lead and shows other countries what freedom and liberty can truly achieve, the world will never change.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  12. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    In a Free Market system...

    Companies compete, without government influence. The employer is free to hire/fire whoever it wants. Likewise, the employee, if not happy, is free to seek employment elsewhere.

    If enough people quit and flee the company (or country) and choose to work for another, over time the originating company would lose productivity, lose sales, and potentially face going out of business. A good businessperson who has invested their time, sweat and money will be forced to look at market conditions and attempt to compete in order to stay afloat, or even outperform.

    This aspect is being completely ignored and is certainly not in the "news".

    So, until we get back to the root of things, things will never improve. You can keep putting band aids on, putting the noose around your throat, but the end result is the root problem is not being discussed or dealt with.

    All government solutions to restrict, provide handouts, etc. do nothing but exasperate problems that government caused in the first place.

    Other countries may have their own problems, but until our country takes the lead and shows other countries what freedom and liberty can truly achieve, the world will never change.
    Communists destroy their own country and then flee the wreckage like rats deserting a sinking ship, then they support the same policies in their new country that destroyed the last one, countries have a right to limit and control who can join them in order to avoid being dragged down to the lowest common denominator of tyranny and poverty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Communists destroy their own country and then flee the wreckage like rats deserting a sinking ship, then they support the same policies in their new country that destroyed the last one, countries have a right to limit and control who can join them in order to avoid being dragged down to the lowest common denominator of tyranny and poverty.
    That's what appears to be happening in the US as the socialists migrate into the more conservative areas of the country.

  14. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by navy-vet View Post
    That's what appears to be happening in the US as the socialists migrate into the more conservative areas of the country.
    Ya bring what ya learn. Government schools teach and promote this stuff.

    Too bad the republican base is not putting enough emphasis on ridding the FedDeptEd/Common Core.

    Too bad the base no longer values Private Property Rights.

    Too bad the base no longer values Private Contract Rights.

    Too bad the base now supports tariffs and sanctions.

    Too bad the base is yesterdays democrats.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  15. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Ya bring what ya learn. Government schools teach and promote this stuff.

    Too bad the republican base is not putting enough emphasis on ridding the FedDeptEd/Common Core.

    Too bad the base no longer values Private Property Rights.

    Too bad the base no longer values Private Contract Rights.

    Too bad the base now supports tariffs and sanctions.

    Too bad the base is yesterdays democrats.
    Too bad you support allowing socialists to move in and destroy education, property rights, contract rights and support sanctions.

    Too bad you support allowing foreign communists to distort the marketplace.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Ya bring what ya learn. Government schools teach and promote this stuff.

    Too bad the republican base is not putting enough emphasis on ridding the FedDeptEd/Common Core.

    Too bad the base no longer values Private Property Rights.

    Too bad the base no longer values Private Contract Rights.

    Too bad the base now supports tariffs and sanctions.

    Too bad the base is yesterdays democrats.
    In this case tariffs as a negotiating tool against a hostile foreign government that was facilitating the socialist invasion are quite appropriate, Mexico is lucky we didn't declare war.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Too bad you support allowing socialists to move in and destroy education, property rights, contract rights and support sanctions.

    Too bad you support allowing foreign communists to distort the marketplace.

    Too bad you blame others for your own actions. See post #252 for a summarized list.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  18. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Too bad you blame others for your own actions. See post #252 for a summarized list.
    Bunk.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Ya bring what ya learn. Government schools teach and promote this stuff.
    Yup:

    Illegal Migrants Come Here as Ready-made Democrats — Here’s Why



    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Too bad the republican base is not putting enough emphasis on ridding the FedDeptEd/Common Core.

    Too bad the base no longer values Private Property Rights.

    Too bad the base no longer values Private Contract Rights.

    Too bad the base now supports tariffs and sanctions.

    Too bad the base is yesterdays democrats.
    Even if that was true (and it isn't) today's Demoncrats are yesterday's communists and you support letting them import unlimited reinforcements.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    In this case tariffs as a negotiating tool against a hostile foreign government that was facilitating the socialist invasion are quite appropriate, Mexico is lucky we didn't declare war.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Swordsmyth again.

  22. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by navy-vet View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Swordsmyth again.
    You are a proponent of NAFTA?

    I know SwordShill says that he is against USMCA but everything that he stands for is actually a motivator for it.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  23. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You are a proponent of NAFTA?

    I know SwordShill says that he is against USMCA but everything that he stands for is actually a motivator for it.
    LOL

    Not at all, everything I stand for is absolutely against it.
    It violates our sovereignty and our ability to defend our rights against globalists and hostile foreign countries.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL

    Not at all, everything I stand for is absolutely against it.
    It violates our sovereignty and our ability to defend our rights against globalists and hostile foreign countries.

    What sovereignty? We do not even have a right to Private Property. What sovereignty are you talking about? Nationalist? Individual? You keep saying "our" but in what context?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  25. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    What sovereignty? We do not even have a right to Private Property. What sovereignty are you talking about? Nationalist? Individual? You keep saying "our" but in what context?
    Both, globalist treaties further erode both.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Both, globalist treaties further erode both.
    You did not answer the question. Put another way:

    We do not even have a right to Private Property. What "individual" sovereignty are you talking about?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  27. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You did not answer the question. Put another way:

    We do not even have a right to Private Property. What "individual" sovereignty are you talking about?
    The few rights we still have.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The few rights we still have.
    List them.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  30. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    List them.
    I'm not going to waste the time, there are too many.

    We do not live in the USSR, there are many countries currently that violate their citizens' rights far worse than the US.

    If we had nothing left to lose you wouldn't be so concerned with all of the ways we might lose more.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm not going to waste the time, there are too many.

    We do not live in the USSR, there are many countries currently that violate their citizens' rights far worse than the US.

    If we had nothing left to lose you wouldn't be so concerned with all of the ways we might lose more.

    You said: "The few rights we still have."

    List 3.

    Go ahead, I dare you.

    Unless you can't.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  32. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You said: "The few rights we still have."

    List 3.

    Go ahead, I dare you.

    Unless you can't.
    We still have the right to own guns.
    We still have the right to speak freely.
    We still have the right to free exercise of religion.
    There are some infringements but we are much better off than most other countries

    That's just three, don't play stupid games, we have much left to lose.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We still have the right to own guns.
    We still have the right to speak freely.
    We still have the right to free exercise of religion.
    There are some infringements but we are much better off than most other countries

    That's just three, don't play stupid games, we have much left to lose.
    Stupid games?

    You are being appeased. You have none of those rights.

    "We still have the right to own guns." Until you are pulled over by LEO and told to immediately disarm. Or answer your own door and told to immediately surrender your weapon.

    "We still have the right to speak freely." Until you are told to move on, otherwise the onus is on you by way of court battles and attorney fees.

    "We still have the right to free exercise of religion." This can be thread of its own.

    "Some infringements"? Even the Bill of Rights was written to limit your rights and grant the government more power than you.


    I asked you to list 3 Rights and you failed to do so.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  34. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Stupid games?

    You are being appeased. You have none of those rights.

    "We still have the right to own guns." Until you are pulled over by LEO and told to immediately disarm. Or answer your own door and told to immediately surrender your weapon.

    "We still have the right to speak freely." Until you are told to move on, otherwise the onus is on you by way of court battles and attorney fees.

    "We still have the right to free exercise of religion." This can be thread of its own.

    "Some infringements"? Even the Bill of Rights was written to limit your rights and grant the government more power than you.


    I asked you to list 3 Rights and you failed to do so.
    More stupid games.

    We have far more rights than most of humanity has or has had throughout history.

    Perfectionism is good for setting goals but taken too far it is the sin of ingratitude.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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