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Thread: Unlike President Donald Trump, Justin Amash Actually Fights Against FISA Surveillance Abuse

  1. #1

    Unlike President Donald Trump, Justin Amash Actually Fights Against FISA Surveillance Abuse

    Unlike President Donald Trump, Justin Amash Actually Fights Against FISA Surveillance Abuse
    The most absurd attack against the Michigan congressman involves ignoring his entire history in office.

    SCOTT SHACKFORD
    5.30.2019

    The first time the libertarian-leaning Rep. Justin Amash (R–Mich.) got attention here at Reason was when he was first running for Congress in 2010. Amash was then serving in the state legislature, and Katherine Mangu-Ward took note of his record of explaining each of his votes on Facebook. He continued that practive after he took his seat in Washington, particularly on what might be seen as "controversial" votes or votes where he bucked the majority.

    Amash's generally fearless transparency has made it easy for voters to track his libertarian record. It also helps explain why his Twitter-thread ruminations that President Donald Trump should potentially face impeachment hearings are so detailed and thorough.

    Because Amash has been so transparent, we also know how thorough he has been in fighting for Americans' right to be protected from unwarranted federal surveillance, and how this has put him at odds with intelligence officers, with the leaders of both major political parties, and with both Barack Obama's and Donald Trump's administrations.

    Bizarrely, some who are upset that Amash won't support Trump are now attempting to attack him for being weak on surveillance issues. This is absolutely baffling for anybody who knows that Amash has regularly tried to use his position as a lawmaker to scale back the government's powers in both the PATRIOT Act and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Amendments (FISA) to secretly snoop on American citizens.

    At Amash's town hall on Monday, one upset woman identified herself as a former Amash volunteer, claimed to have voted for him in every election since 2010, and said she'd recently changed her position on him. She was obviously very upset at Amash for his position on impeaching Trump. After expressing her anger for a few minutes, she asked him, "Why did you say nothing about the FISA abuses? If you care about the constitution so much, why didn't you say anything about the yearlong violation of the Fourth Amendment rights of Trump and his entire transition team?" This apparently prompted Amash to laugh off-camera, and that made her even angrier, because she took it to mean that he doesn't care about the issue. She then insisted that he "didn't speak about it once."

    ...
    read more:
    https://reason.com/2019/05/30/unlike...illance-abuse/



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  3. #2
    So when a sitting President's political party uses FISA abuse to spy on the political campaign of their opponent, then they start a sham investigation, spending millions of dollars and locking up innocent people over mis-remembering some minute detail from years earlier... what does he do?

    I'm glad he fights it on the house floor, but when it actually happens and he goes and spouts a bunch of nonsense defending it, that just isn't very consistent.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #3
    So how could Amash be for impeachment then? The false dossier was pushed through the FISA court.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    So when a sitting President's political party uses FISA abuse to spy on the political campaign of their opponent, then they start a sham investigation, spending millions of dollars and locking up innocent people over mis-remembering some minute detail from years earlier... what does he do?

    I'm glad he fights it on the house floor, but when it actually happens and he goes and spouts a bunch of nonsense defending it, that just isn't very consistent.
    Please provide a quote of him spouting nonsense defending it.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    So how could Amash be for impeachment then? The false dossier was pushed through the FISA court.
    Please quote Amash giving any reason for impeachment that expresses any support for that.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Please quote Amash giving any reason for impeachment that expresses any support for that.
    That is my point-- he obviously did NOT do his homework to support impeachment of President Trump without looking into the phony dossier--of which Mueller did not bring up. If he did he would see that what Mueller did is circumvent the whole phony dossier that got passed the FISA courts to allow spying.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    That is my point-- he obviously did NOT do his homework to support impeachment of President Trump without looking into the phony dossier--of which Mueller did not bring up. If he did he would see that what Mueller did is circumvent the whole phony dossier that got passed the FISA courts to allow spying.
    Can you provide the quote from him that led you to reach this conclusion?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Please provide a quote of him spouting nonsense defending it.
    In his Town Hall, Amash talked about a letter that Mueller sent to Barr saying that Barr's "summary" was misleading to the American public.

    The letter did state that the American public was being misled about the Mueller report, and the media jumped all over it saying that Barr's "summary" was misleading. But when Barr called Mueller that night on the telephone, Mueller told him that his "summary" was accurate and there was nothing wrong with it.. he said that the media was misleading the American public about the "summary". Mueller asked to have portions of the report released early to clarify, but Barr wanted to get everything prepped as soon as possible and just release the whole thing, which he did.

    The media refuses to report on the nuances of this situation because it makes them look retarded, because they had pushed that letter so hard as Mueller saying Barr got it wrong - when in fact it was them that got it wrong. Amash must not have watched Barr's questioning in front of the Senate Judiciary, because he had to explain this over and over, like 6 times, to the Democrats. Because all the Democrats had tuned in to the Deep State News Networks and they all had it on their list of questions to ask him.. and apparently they didn't listen the first time.

    What this tells me is that Amash didn't even watch the Barr hearing, all he did was listen to the deep state news networks. Either that, or he doesn't believe anything he says about this and is doing it to get votes in his district. I'm actually ok with that, if that is what his goal is - to keep his district seat or to get a Senate seat or something. But if his goal is to actually push this nonsense out into general public discourse and actually push forward in attacking the President, then that is kinda $#@!ty. Unless he thinks that impeaching Trump will help him get re-elected, and he actually wants Trump to get re-elected. That would be ok.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    In his Town Hall, Amash talked about a letter that Mueller sent to Barr saying that Barr's "summary" was misleading to the American public.

    The letter did state that the American public was being misled about the Mueller report, and the media jumped all over it saying that Barr's "summary" was misleading. But when Barr called Mueller that night on the telephone, Mueller told him that his "summary" was accurate and there was nothing wrong with it.. he said that the media was misleading the American public about the "summary". Mueller asked to have portions of the report released early to clarify, but Barr wanted to get everything prepped as soon as possible and just release the whole thing, which he did.

    The media refuses to report on the nuances of this situation because it makes them look retarded, because they had pushed that letter so hard as Mueller saying Barr got it wrong - when in fact it was them that got it wrong. Amash must not have watched Barr's questioning in front of the Senate Judiciary, because he had to explain this over and over, like 6 times, to the Democrats. Because all the Democrats had tuned in to the Deep State News Networks and they all had it on their list of questions to ask him.. and apparently they didn't listen the first time.

    What this tells me is that Amash didn't even watch the Barr hearing, all he did was listen to the deep state news networks. Either that, or he doesn't believe anything he says about this and is doing it to get votes in his district. I'm actually ok with that, if that is what his goal is - to keep his district seat or to get a Senate seat or something. But if his goal is to actually push this nonsense out into general public discourse and actually push forward in attacking the President, then that is kinda $#@!ty. Unless he thinks that impeaching Trump will help him get re-elected, and he actually wants Trump to get re-elected. That would be ok.
    Notice how you have to take hearsay of something Mueller supposedly said to someone, and then not only report that, but paraphrase it to say something different than what even those who heard it claimed he said, in order to twist it into Mueller contradicting what he said in a letter that is public and available for all to see, and is entirely consistent with what he has publicly reiterated since then.

    And you still can't provide any quotes from Amash to support your conclusions about him.

    Right. Yeah, this tells you that Amash didn't watch the Barr hearing, because of course anyone who watched that would draw the same conclusions that you were told to draw by some moron on InfoWars.

    I don't know if you've deliberately transformed your account into a satirical one just to make fun of TOOLs (Trump Offense Ovation Lunatics) by being such a perfect caricature of them or not. But if somebody did do that, they wouldn't be able to do a better job than to say everything you've said here over the past 2 years.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Can you provide the quote from him that led you to reach this conclusion?
    He is calling for Trump's impeachment that's how I came to this conclusion. Any one that is paying attention would know the phony dossier was the key to this entire hoax.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    He is calling for Trump's impeachment that's how I came to this conclusion. Any one that is paying attention would know the phony dossier was the key to this entire hoax.
    Your quote from him is what again?

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Your quote from him is what again?














    What about the phony dossier Justin? Who bought it and who pushed it through to spy on a Presidential Candidate? How come Comey excused Hillary's crimes?
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post














    What about the phony dossier Justin? Who bought it and who pushed it through to spy on a Presidential Candidate? How come Comey excused Hillary's crimes?
    It looks like you just mindlessly copied over a bunch of tweets criticizing Trump without bothering to read them and see if a single one even supports the claims you made.

    What a TOOL.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    It looks like you just mindlessly copied over a bunch of tweets criticizing Trump without bothering to read them and see if a single one even supports the claims you made.

    What a TOOL.
    That's the point you keep on missing...where does he talk about the phony dossier? Oh that's right, he doesn't. His silence on that makes him a TOOL for the establishment swamp.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    That's the point you keep on missing...where does he talk about the phony dossier? Oh that's right, he doesn't. His silence on that makes him a TOOL for the establishment swamp.
    Mods?

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Notice how you have to take hearsay of something Mueller supposedly said to someone, and then not only report that, but paraphrase it to say something different than what even those who heard it claimed he said, in order to twist it into Mueller contradicting what he said in a letter that is public and available for all to see, and is entirely consistent with what he has publicly reiterated since then.

    And you still can't provide any quotes from Amash to support your conclusions about him.

    Right. Yeah, this tells you that Amash didn't watch the Barr hearing, because of course anyone who watched that would draw the same conclusions that you were told to draw by some moron on InfoWars.

    I don't know if you've deliberately transformed your account into a satirical one just to make fun of TOOLs (Trump Offense Ovation Lunatics) by being such a perfect caricature of them or not. But if somebody did do that, they wouldn't be able to do a better job than to say everything you've said here over the past 2 years.
    It wasn't hear-say, there were like a half dozen people in the room. Notes were taken of the phone call. Barr was not lying about the Mueller phone call to the senate judiciary, that is completely insane and ridiculous TDS nonsense.
    Last edited by dannno; 05-30-2019 at 01:35 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    ...but the other stuff ugh!

    ID TAKE HIM OVER TRUMP but that aint happen'n

    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Notice how you have to take hearsay of something Mueller supposedly said to someone, and then not only report that, but paraphrase it to say something different than what even those who heard it claimed he said, in order to twist it into Mueller contradicting what he said in a letter that is public and available for all to see, and is entirely consistent with what he has publicly reiterated since then.

    And you still can't provide any quotes from Amash to support your conclusions about him.

    Right. Yeah, this tells you that Amash didn't watch the Barr hearing, because of course anyone who watched that would draw the same conclusions that you were told to draw by some moron on InfoWars.

    I don't know if you've deliberately transformed your account into a satirical one just to make fun of TOOLs (Trump Offense Ovation Lunatics) by being such a perfect caricature of them or not. But if somebody did do that, they wouldn't be able to do a better job than to say everything you've said here over the past 2 years.

    There is also another simple resolution to this - it happened WEEKS ago.. Has Mueller denied it happened? Don't you think he would have denied it if it wasn't true?

    The hoops you people jump through to keep the Russia Hoax alive is just mind boggling..

    Ron Paul has been talking $#@! on the Russia hoax for years. I would think you guys would be a bit more discerning on this topic than your average leftist.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    There is also another simple resolution to this - it happened WEEKS ago.. Has Mueller denied it happened? Don't you think he would have denied it if it wasn't true?

    The hoops you people jump through to keep the Russia Hoax alive is just mind boggling..

    Ron Paul has been talking $#@! on the Russia hoax for years. I would think you guys would be a bit more discerning on this topic than your average leftist.
    Yeah I am waiting for a mythbusters episode where he dismantles the entire thing, I think he could articulate the libertarian position on this way better than fake libertarians.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Mods?
    What do you need? AWaaambulance after getting smacked for supporting Amash's support of the Deep State?

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    What do you need? AWaaambulance after getting smacked for supporting Amash's support of the Deep State?
    Oh you're mistaken... SM is neutral on the matter.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  25. #22

  26. #23
    LOL, ok, great, Justin Amash fights against FISA abuse. How did that go? Was he successful?

    Look who is being successful at fighting FISA abuse:

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    That's right.. it looks like Rand Paul is going to successfully fight FISA abuse. With Donald Trump.

    If Amash had his way, Trump would get impeached and he would keep fighting unsuccessfully to get rid of FISA abuse, because Trump's replacement would be much worse.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post














    What about the phony dossier Justin? Who bought it and who pushed it through to spy on a Presidential Candidate? How come Comey excused Hillary's crimes?
    Justin Amash - the super libertarian who thinks you can impeach someone for thought crime.




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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    Justin Amash - the super libertarian who thinks you can impeach someone for thought crime.

    Yeah and if he is so against spying, why is he giving the illegal spying a pass and not questioning the phony (paid for by the DNC and Clinton Foundation) dossier?
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  30. #26


    Cowardly Idiot Trump serving his deep state masters, extending FISA orwellian warrantless spying , advocating making FISA abuses permanent (all FISA warrantless spying is an abuse).
    Last edited by AZJoe; 06-16-2019 at 08:02 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post


    Cowardly Idiot Trump serving his deep state masters, extending FISA orwellian warrantless spying , advocating making FISA abuses permanent (all FISA warrantless spying is an abuse).
    And Amash is such a hero that he supports the Deepstate use of FISA fraud against Trump.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And Amash is such a hero that he supports the Deepstate use of FISA fraud against Trump.
    Baloney. Straight up lie. Quit pushing lies.
    Amash has always opposed the entire FISA program and its warrantless spying. Disagree with Amash, fine, but try disagreeing with what he actually says instead of makign up lies about his positions. To make up lies is to admit you cannot dispute his actual position.

    Amash never cited or referred to anything obtained from the FISA fraud for his impeachment argument. Amash's arguments for impeachment have nothing to do with any evidence obtained by the fraudulent FISA abuses. Amash himself refers to the underlying charges and the investigation as frivolous. Amash's basis for impeachment has to do with Trump's conduct AFTER the FISA fraud allegations.



    [BTW There are a litany of real reasons traitor Trump deserves be impeached. The Dems and Repubs willfully participate in such impeachable acts and so miss the real reasons for impeachment - continuation and expansion of the drone bombings, the continued occupation of Syria, the continued support for terrorist proxies, the illegal bombing of Syria twice, the expulsion of russian diplomats, the jumping on the false flag gas attack accusations against Assad, the stupid trade wars, the implementation of increased taxes by the executive branch, an endless litany of lies. Unfortunately however, if Trump is removed via impeachment his successor Trump's Neocon Pence will be as bad or worse.]
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Baloney. Straight up lie. Quit pushing lies.
    Amash has always opposed the entire FISA program and its warrantless spying. Disagree with Amash, fine, but try disagreeing with what he actually says instead of makign up lies about his positions. To make up lies is to admit you cannot dispute his actual position.

    Amash never cited or referred to anything obtained from the FISA fraud for his impeachment argument. Amash's arguments for impeachment have nothing to do with any evidence obtained by the fraudulent FISA abuses. Amash himself refers to the underlying charges and the investigation as frivolous. Amash's basis for impeachment has to do with Trump's conduct AFTER the FISA fraud allegations.



    [BTW There are a litany of real reasons traitor Trump deserves be impeached. The Dems and Repubs willfully participate in such impeachable acts and so miss the real reasons for impeachment - continuation and expansion of the drone bombings, the continued occupation of Syria, the continued support for terrorist proxies, the illegal bombing of Syria twice, the expulsion of russian diplomats, the jumping on the false flag gas attack accusations against Assad, the stupid trade wars, the implementation of increased taxes by the executive branch, an endless litany of lies. Unfortunately however, if Trump is removed via impeachment his successor Trump's Neocon Pence will be as bad or worse.]
    You can't obstruct an illegal investigation, by endorsing the obstruction charges (which are laughable even if the investigation was legal) Amash endorses the illegal investigation.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You can't obstruct an illegal investigation, by endorsing the obstruction charges (which are laughable even if the investigation was legal) Amash endorses the illegal investigation.
    First, this statement confirms nothing to support that Amash "supports the Deepstate use of FISA fraud".

    Secondly, no, a politician corruptly breaking laws to obstruct justice does not become ok simply because the politicians believes the investigation is corrupt. That like saying its ok to break the law because you are only breaking the law to refute others who broke the law. That's nonsensical and has no foundation in any American law.

    And no opposing subsequent crimes is not endorsement of prior abuse of process. For instance a police officer may hide evidence or destroy evidence of in a case where the defendant actually committed terrible murders. Opposing the corrupt obstruction of justice by the officer after the fact, does not mean you endorse the underlying murders committed by the murderer.

    You may disagree with Amash's position on obstruction based on lack of evidence of obstruction, and that is a proper argument. Much better than making up falsehoods about Amash's position. I have yet to see any sufficient evidence of any obstruction. However that is based on lack of evidence, not because of a belief that politicians should abuse their power in corrupt ways to rig investigations simply because they believe the investigation is corrupt.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

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