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Thread: Voting is not a right.

  1. #1

    Voting is not a right.

    Aint that right?
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.



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  3. #2
    I agree, what restrictions do you propose.

    I have proposed barring government workers (other than the military) and anyone who gets a penny of government money from voting because they have a conflict of interest.

    I'm open to the possibility of taking the vote away from women because they have shown a tendency to vote for government that violates the rights of others.

    We need to raise the voting age to 30, wisdom and experience should be required of those who choose our government representatives.
    The excuse for lowering it to 18 was the draft but that was ended as it should have been.

    Any other suggestions.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Aint that right?
    That's right.

    All that matters is what the government does.

    If it does good things because people vote for good things, good.

    If it does good things in spite of people voting for bad things (or with the people not being permitted to vote), just as good.

    Voting is only ever a means to an end (and not usually a useful means for advancing libertarian ends).
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 05-30-2019 at 01:08 AM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I agree, what restrictions do you propose.

    I have proposed barring government workers (other than the military) and anyone who gets a penny of government money from voting because they have a conflict of interest.

    I'm open to the possibility of taking the vote away from women because they have shown a tendency to vote for government that violates the rights of others.

    We need to raise the voting age to 30, wisdom and experience should be required of those who choose our government representatives.
    The excuse for lowering it to 18 was the draft but that was ended as it should have been.

    Any other suggestions.
    At least you admit you are a restrictionist.

    Why exempt the military? There are plenty who make a life-long career out of it, and prone to incite conflict of interest. Wasn't there something about "standing armies" way back then? Or have you forgotten about that?

    My proposal is a simple one and somewhat already exists: members of a community vote what is in their best interest. However they are not permitted to vote on anything that would affect another community outside of their own... education being a perfect example. Raising the age to 30 I disagree with; if a 19 year old works hard on a farm to supply food, or a 22 year old entrepreneur manufacturers a cool side-arm gadget, they ought to have the right to engage in their own local community.

    The Fed.gov has NO right being involved in education (Common Core), retirement (SocSec, 401K, etc.), or medical decisions/regulation.

    Back to MY proposal.

    First off, rally the "let's-pretend-we-are-republicans" and DEMAND that they end the welfare system once and for all, and if the republican constituents are serious about it, they should make it known that failure to end the welfare system once and for all would result in immediate removal from office. Legitimate cases of need can and should be handled locally - NOT by the state or Fed. The 10th is there for a reason, even though it was written with loopholes by the statists.

    Second, without a job, one can not vote. If one votes and then decide that he/she no longer wants to work, voting rights become thereby revoked.

    I think if/when people are serious enough, this can steer communities in the right direction, and those that do not like the community are free to leave and seek another.
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Undocumention is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's not a police state, it's what every nation in history has done.

    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  6. #5
    Not only is it not a right, but inasmuch as we're talking about voting for politicians empowered with imposing laws on unconsenting people, it's positively wrong. It shouldn't exist at all.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Not only is it not a right, but inasmuch as we're talking about voting for politicians empowered with imposing laws on unconsenting people, it's positively wrong. It shouldn't exist at all.
    "politicians empowered with imposing laws on unconsenting people"

    I agree.

    But it is a right for citizens of the United States to vote.

    Amendment 15 - Race No Bar to Vote. Ratified 2/3/1870.

    1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    "politicians empowered with imposing laws on unconsenting people"

    I agree.

    But it is a right for citizens of the United States to vote.

    Amendment 15 - Race No Bar to Vote. Ratified 2/3/1870.

    1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
    I was using the word "right" in a more basic moral sense, not for make believe rights that are just the dictates of politicians in laws they made up.

  9. #8
    Voting is much more than a right. It's a duty, and a privilege.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I was using the word "right" in a more basic moral sense, not for make believe rights that are just the dictates of politicians in laws they made up.
    There again, they do not think in terms of basics; they always look to somebody else's words on a page and government to solve the problems.

    You get another + REP
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Undocumention is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's not a police state, it's what every nation in history has done.

    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    There again, they do not think in terms of basics; they always look to somebody else's words on a page and government to solve the problems.

    You get another + REP
    Lol, I'm supposed to guess at what he really means instead of what he wrote? Solving riddles? Why can't he just write what he means then so that it is not a riddle?

    And nothing I said supported government to solve problems. In fact I was agreeing with him here...

    "but inasmuch as we're talking about voting for politicians empowered with imposing laws on unconsenting people, it's positively wrong".

    Know what? you could benefit from actually reading words. And if he had any integrity he would back me up that I was actually agreeing with him, not opposing him.
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Lol, I'm supposed to guess at what he really means instead of what he wrote?
    I meant exactly what I wrote. I just don't accept the premise that the Constitution is always right.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I meant exactly what I wrote. I just don't accept the premise that the Constitution is always right.
    OK then when it comes to voting what is your cure? Appoint a divine dictator for life? only for a selective few? or no government at all? I know the answer... anarchy and no government at all right?
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    or no government at all?
    And end up like Kevin Costner in Water World? No thank you.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    I know the answer... anarchy and no government at all right?
    No. I'm not against government. I'm just against the state.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    And end up like Kevin Costner in Water World? No thank you.
    Know what? If it were not for true human nature concerning the lack of respect for one another and the current population numbers, Not having any government would actually work and I would fully support the concept. But reality dictates human nature can never be changed.
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Know what? If it were not for true human nature concerning the lack of respect for one another and the current population numbers, Not having any government would actually work and I would fully support the concept. But reality dictates human nature can never be changed.
    It's a good thing we have government to protect us from human nature!
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    It's a good thing we have government to protect us from human nature!
    You are patronizing me again. Honestly... I truly wish it were not so. Like you... I wish we lived in a utopian world of total love and respect for each other, and rules were not even needed to keep the species from killing each other. Nice dream isn't it?
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    You are patronizing me again. Honestly... I truly wish it were not so. Like you... I wish we lived in a utopian world of total love and respect for each other, and rules were not even needed to keep the species from killing each other. Nice dream isn't it?
    I couldn't agree more. Without some kind of government to protect us, we'd have roaming bands of thieves stealing 50% of everything we earn through the threat of violence.

    It's a good thing we have government to protect us from that.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I couldn't agree more. Without some kind of government to protect us, we'd have roaming bands of thieves stealing 50% of everything we earn through the threat of violence.

    It's a good thing we have government to protect us from that.
    Lol... I get the sarcasm. And the government is this way because of that very same reality concerning human nature I speak of.
    “The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world it leaves to its children.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    At least you admit you are a restrictionist.
    Yes, liberty is composed of restrictions on tyrants.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Why exempt the military?
    Because it would be immoral to send them to kill and die on the orders of politicians they had no say in choosing.
    The same logic doesn't apply to kops because the level of violence they face is much less and is a known and constant factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    There are plenty who make a life-long career out of it, and prone to incite conflict of interest.
    They tend to oppose war and big government, a huge amount of Ron's support came from the military in case you forgot.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Wasn't there something about "standing armies" way back then? Or have you forgotten about that?
    The founders gave us a standing navy and because they disagreed about standing armies they compromised and placed a two year limit on the army's budget but that limit has never been allowed to expire because a standing army is necessary as the backbone of our defensive forces and to train the militia.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    My proposal is a simple one and somewhat already exists: members of a community vote what is in their best interest. However they are not permitted to vote on anything that would affect another community outside of their own... education being a perfect example.
    That is not a question of who is allowed to vote but of what issues should be handled at what level of government, in general I agree that any issue should be handled at the lowest level of government capable of handling it.


    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Raising the age to 30 I disagree with; if a 19 year old works hard on a farm to supply food, or a 22 year old entrepreneur manufacturers a cool side-arm gadget, they ought to have the right to engage in their own local community.
    Younger voters lack wisdom and experience and are far more likely to vote for bigger government, the exact age when one should be allowed to vote can be debated but it is too low now and younger citizens should no more be allowed to vote than children should be allowed to have a say in running a family's affairs.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The Fed.gov has NO right being involved in education (Common Core), retirement (SocSec, 401K, etc.), or medical decisions/regulation.
    You are absolutely correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Back to MY proposal.

    First off, rally the "let's-pretend-we-are-republicans" and DEMAND that they end the welfare system once and for all, and if the republican constituents are serious about it, they should make it known that failure to end the welfare system once and for all would result in immediate removal from office. Legitimate cases of need can and should be handled locally - NOT by the state or Fed. The 10th is there for a reason, even though it was written with loopholes by the statists.
    I support all efforts to end welfare and to educate Republicans.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Second, without a job, one can not vote. If one votes and then decide that he/she no longer wants to work, voting rights become thereby revoked.
    That is a bad idea, it makes the definition of a job a government matter, it is better to simply deny the vote to anyone who gets a penny of government money, perhaps even including the employees of government contractors.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 05-30-2019 at 02:37 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, liberty is composed of restrictions on tyrants.
    There is a clear and distinct difference between restricting and restrictionist. I would tend to lean toward the former. You are the latter.

    Because it would be immoral to send them to kill and die on the orders of politicians they had no say in choosing.
    The same logic doesn't apply to kops because the level of violence they face is much less and is a known and constant factor.
    Clean that up. It is a gibberish contradiction.

    They tend to oppose war and big government, a huge amount of Ron's support came from the military in case you forgot.
    Many, not huge. 1. I was on the campaign trail. 2. many ex-military that I speak to believe "we are over there to fight for our freedoms here." Many current military that I speak to join because they believe there are little options elsewhere to make money. Many current military join because they have a big-tough-bad-ass-do-something mentality. Many current military believes it is the "patriotic" thing to do.

    Please get out into the real world and ask real world questions. It is not that difficult, and they will not bite your head off.

    The founders gave us a standing navy and because they disagreed about standing armies they compromised and placed a two year limit on the army's budget but that limit has never been allowed to expire because a standing army is necessary as the backbone of our defensive forces and to train the militia.
    Clean that up. It is a gibberish contradiction. The militia that I associate with obtains no training, or funding, whatsoever from any "standing army". Some were in the military, but that is the extent of it.

    That is not a question of who is allowed to vote but of what issues should be handled at what level of government, in general I agree that any issue should be handled at the lowest level of government capable of handling it.
    In order to vote what issues should be handled requires people to do the voting. Therefore it is a question of who is allowed to vote. Certainly if one owns property or a business, regardless of age.

    Younger voters lack wisdom and experience and are far more likely to vote for bigger government, the exact age when one should be allowed to vote can be debated but it is too low now and younger citizens should no more be allowed to vote than children should be allowed to have a say in running a family's affairs.
    Who sits there and determines appropriate age? Door to door nannies? "Papers please?" I know many young folks who stand by liberty (take YAL, for instance), and many middle-aged folks who believe a welfare system is for the good of all people. Shall we skip every other age bracket, perhaps?

    You are absolutely correct.
    I know ;-)

    I support all efforts to end welfare and to educate Republicans.
    I don't. I support all efforts to end welfare and to educate ALL people. A lot of democrats voted for reagan, and of course Ron Paul in case you forgot.

    That is a bad idea, it makes the definition of a job a government matter, it is better to simply deny the vote to anyone who gets a penny of government money, perhaps even including the employees of government contractors.

    I can bend. But before I do I must contemplate that.



    Swordsmyth Freedom Index Score: 20%

    PAF Freedom Index Score: 100%

    ;-)
    Last edited by PAF; 05-30-2019 at 03:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Undocumention is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's not a police state, it's what every nation in history has done.

    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    There is a clear and distinct difference between restricting and restrictionist. I would tend to lean toward the former. You are the latter.
    LOL
    The only restrictions I support are required to maintain liberty.


    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Clean that up. It is a gibberish contradiction.
    Read it again, the military is not required to face any violence during peacetime but in wartime they face hell on earth, kops face criminal violence which is always a factor and is much less severe than warfare.



    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Many, not huge. 1. I was on the campaign trail. 2. many ex-military that I speak to believe "we are over there to fight for our freedoms here." 3. many current military that I speak to join because they believe there are little options elsewhere to make money, many current military join because they have a big-tough-bad-ass-do-something mentality, many current military believes it is the "patriotic" thing to do.

    Please get out into the real world and ask real world questions. It is not that difficult, and they will not bite your head off.
    The support from the military was disproportionate compared to their numbers, they are much more likely to be anti-war because their lives are on the line and they tend towards conservatism and smaller government because they tend to be aggressive self-confident types who aren't looking to be dependent on others.


    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Clean that up. It is a gibberish contradiction. The militia that I associate with obtains no training whatsoever from any "standing army". Some were in the military, but that is the extent of it.
    It is in no way a contradiction, you don't seem to understand the meaning of that word.

    We do not have a proper militia in this country and it is only as well trained as it is because it has so many ex-military members who give the civilians the benefit of the training they received from the standing army.
    You also simply need a professional military as the backbone of your defenses.


    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    In order to vote what issues should be handled requires people to do the voting. Therefore it is a question of who is allowed to vote. Certainly if one owns property or a business, regardless of age.
    You could claim that anything was a matter of who was allowed to vote by that standard.
    It is a different question that may be affected by who is allowed to vote.


    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Who sits there and determines appropriate age? Door to door nannies? I know many young folks who stand by liberty (take YAL, for instance), and many middle-aged folks who believe a welfare system is for the good of all people. Shall we skip every other age bracket, perhaps?
    You pick an age based on overall voting trends, neuroscience and observation of the average level of wisdom and experience, currently that age is set at 18 which is definitely too low, I propose 30 but anything higher than 18 would be an improvement, perhaps 25?


    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I don't. I support all efforts to end welfare and to educate ALL people. A lot of democrats voted for reagan, and of course Ron Paul in case you forgot.
    I did not say I opposed efforts to educate democrats but they were not what you were discussing and they are much less likely to listen these days and so spending time on them is less efficient.




    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Swordsmyth Freedom Index Score: 20%

    PAF Freedom Index Score: 100%

    ;-)
    LOL

    Award yourself all the prizes you want and it won't change reality or whose system would better preserve liberty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    OK then when it comes to voting what is your cure? Appoint a divine dictator for life? only for a selective few? or no government at all? I know the answer... anarchy and no government at all right?
    I'm not able to verbalize it well but isnt it somewhat intuitive that voting is not a right, that its something tangible, it requires some form of registration unlike natural or intangible rights like speech, self defense, due process, having an opinion etc.

    Rights cannot be taken away although we know government constantly $#@!s on and tries to.
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

  27. #24

    Question Republican & Democrat leaders - not human

    We need an entity that's free from human flaws to rule over us, so that the evil humans don't rip us off and enslave us.

    That's where the Republican & Democrat party comes in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    I'm not able to verbalize it well but isnt it somewhat intuitive that voting is not a right, that its something tangible, it requires some form of registration unlike natural or intangible rights like speech, self defense, due process, having an opinion etc.

    Rights cannot be taken away although we know government constantly $#@!s on and tries to.

    Voting can and does violate others rights if they are on the opposing side. Basically it is a “democracy” where mob overrules. The flip side of that is that if one engages in voting it can be considered a wild-card “contract”, so, win or lose, one must accept the outcome.

    Which begs further questions:

    If you are born on land which is out of your control (nature chose for you), should you be subject to others whims even though you are born with natural rights and choose not to play (vote)?

    The majority of people in this country no longer vote, either because of laziness, busy, or many cases lost faith in the system and no longer participate (due to big money, lobbyists, etc). So if they choose not to play, should they be subjected to mob rule of which they oppose?
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Undocumention is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's not a police state, it's what every nation in history has done.

    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Voting can and does violate others rights if they are on the opposing side. Basically it is a “democracy” where mob overrules. The flip side of that is that if one engages in voting it can be considered a wild-card “contract”, so, win or lose, one must accept the outcome.

    Which begs further questions:

    If you are born on land which is out of your control (nature chose for you), should you be subject to others whims even though you are born with natural rights and choose not to play (vote)?

    The majority of people in this country no longer vote, either because of laziness, busy, or many cases lost faith in the system and no longer participate (due to big money, lobbyists, etc). So if they choose not to play, should they be subjected to mob rule of which they oppose?
    You can have voting or you can have tyranny in which you don't even get a chance to have your say heard, the best compromise is to restrict those who tend to vote to violate the rights of others from voting.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 05-31-2019 at 01:03 AM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Not only is it not a right, but inasmuch as we're talking about voting for politicians empowered with imposing laws on unconsenting people, it's positively wrong. It shouldn't exist at all.
    Winning post, sir. +rep
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I agree, what restrictions do you propose.

    I have proposed barring government workers (other than the military) and anyone who gets a penny of government money from voting because they have a conflict of interest.

    I'm open to the possibility of taking the vote away from women because they have shown a tendency to vote for government that violates the rights of others.

    We need to raise the voting age to 30, wisdom and experience should be required of those who choose our government representatives.
    The excuse for lowering it to 18 was the draft but that was ended as it should have been.

    Any other suggestions.





    No naturalized immigrants can vote, they have shown they are not able to understndn/value freedom

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    No naturalized immigrants can vote, they have shown they are not able to understndn/value freedom
    That sounds like a good idea, they would gain all the other rights of citizens and their children born here could qualify to vote but they don't get a say in how to run the society that they just joined and don't understand.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That sounds like a good idea, they would gain all the other rights of citizens and their children born here could qualify to vote but they don't get a say in how to run the society that they just joined and don't understand.


    I would push preventing them to vote for at least 3-5 generations...

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