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Thread: Federal judge rules Trump cannot block subpoena for financial records

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Christ, are we talking about the same thing? He's not invoking executive privilege over his tax records. He's simply refusing the release without a judicial fight. The same as you or I. And if he wins it is a win for us. But, you can't understand that. You can't even try. You can't because Orange Man Bad and your belief that every politician should have their books opened. Those are the two strong emotions driving your argument.
    So I'm not going to convince you otherwise, and I'll leave it at that.
    He is refusing to release records for an audit. To do so would land you or I in jail, but a sitting president cannot be jailed. There is no possible precedent in that which could possibly help anyone but him.

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Absolutely. If Ron Paul refused to release his records WWMT (What Would Members Think)?"
    I would wonder why he has stopped doing what he has been doing for decades and decades. What if Ron Paul suddenly started behaving like Trump is a meaningless question to me.

    And there's a tornadic storm over my head, which is more of a threat to me than this repetitive and vitriolic nonsense I'm getting in this thread. So if you'll excuse me...
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-20-2019 at 08:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.



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  3. #92
    Federal (leftist) judges are almost guaranteed to block anything Trump wants. Then it may or may not get settled in a higher court.

    Trump so far has had a good record of winning cases, ie. travel ban, illegal migrant detention, etc...

    I am not there myself but would imagine there is a multi-level system of checks in all WH admins to make sure they avoid getting caught in a constitutional trap by the left, which if that happened, would be quite humiliating.
    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    He is refusing to release records for an audit.

    LINK?

    That is NOT what is happening.

    TDS is a gateway to schizophrenia it seems.


    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    To do so would land you or I in jail, but a sitting president cannot be jailed. There is no possible precedent in that which could possibly help anyone but him.
    The precedent that Congress can't just demand sombody's financial records because they want to destroy them helps everyone.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    TDS is a gateway to schizophrenia it seems.


    May 20, 2019 at 7:26:12 pm


    Moon: 94.6%
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    He is refusing to release records for an audit. To do so would land you or I in jail, but a sitting president cannot be jailed. There is no possible precedent in that which could possibly help anyone but him.



    I would wonder why he has stopped doing what he has been doing for decades and decades. What if Ron Paul suddenly started behaving like Trump is a meaningless question to me.

    And there's a tornadic storm over my head, which is more of a threat to me than this repetitive and vitriolic nonsense I'm getting in this thread. So if you'll excuse me...
    A $#@!ing HOUSE audit. YES! Yes it would land you or I in jail. And he is using his position to fight the notion that the House can go on a fishing expedition. Just like Ron Paul would probably do when a body of Government overreaches those powers granted to it.
    Because THIS is what it is about. Whether it's Ron Paul or whether it is Trump. It is about the House's over reach in it's granted authority.
    Which most of us see as a good thing. Unless, you suffer from TDS and believe any and any measure to take him out is good to go.

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Then you would be right to say not, because that would be the right stance for anyone who actually believed in the Constitution and the liberty movement. To support and agree with it would be accepting government overreach that should never happen to anyone, even the Orange Man.
    Uh oh... here we go again ;-) I am the "anarchist" who has stated the CONstitution was written to enslave. I support/endorse the liberty movement, individualism, Natural Rights and the NAP.

    I will defend the Orange Man's rights, but he is still a nationalistic statist like some on this board.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    A $#@!ing HOUSE audit. YES! Yes it would land you or I in jail. And he is using his position to fight the notion that the House can go on a fishing expedition. Just like Ron Paul would probably do when a body of Government overreaches those powers granted to it.
    Because THIS is what it is about. Whether it's Ron Paul or whether it is Trump. It is about the House's over reach in it's granted authority.
    Which most of us see as a good thing. Unless, you suffer from TDS and believe any and any measure to take him out is good to go.
    Don't let him get away with calling it an "audit", it makes it sound legal and authoritative, it is an unreasonable search and seizure that lacks even the color of law that an IRS audit has.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Don't let him get away with calling it an "audit", it makes it sound legal and authoritative, it is an unreasonable search and seizure that lacks even the color of law that an IRS audit has.
    No $#@!. Thanks for the correction. Even the use of the word makes it a progressive talking point.

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post

    Trump so far has had a good record of winning cases, ie. travel ban, illegal migrant detention, etc...
    Oh, brother.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Uh oh... here we go again ;-) I am the "anarchist" who has stated the CONstitution was written to enslave. I support/endorse the liberty movement, individualism, Natural Rights and the NAP.

    I will defend the Orange Man's rights, but he is still a nationalistic statist like some on this board.
    Your opinion is absolutely respected from me. But selectively saying he or anyone else does not have the same rights as everyone else is an issue for me.

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Your opinion is absolutely respected from me. But selectively saying he or anyone else does not have the same rights as everyone else is an issue for me.
    I believe everybody, regardless of what country they were born, raised, color, religion, have the same rights. I do not believe that just because somebody was not born in America that Natural Rights outlined in the Bill of Rights do not apply.

    That is the danger of nationalism that trump and some here are promoting, which WILL set precedence - that just because they are not American they do not have the same rights that "we" do.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I believe everybody, regardless of what country they were born, raised, color, religion, have the same rights. I do not believe that just because somebody was not born in America that Natural Rights outlined in the Bill of Rights do not apply.

    That is the danger of nationalism that trump and some here are promoting, which WILL set precedence - that just because they are not American they do not have the same rights that "we" do.
    They have all the same rights we do, they have a right to be in their country and we have right to be in ours.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They have all the same rights we do, they have a right to be in their country and we have right to be in ours.
    I will agree with you if you show me your deed. There is an awful lot of unused land out there that can be freely homesteaded, but afaik the BLM that you admire still wrongfully controls much of it.

    SwordShill, can you show me your deed?

    PS, please don't go on a tangent how we should strive to emulate other restrictionist/anti-liberty nations, this is supposed to be the land of the free ;-)
    Last edited by PAF; 05-20-2019 at 08:55 PM.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I will agree with you if you show me your deed. There is an awful lot of unused land out there that can be freely homesteaded, but afaik the BLM that you admire still wrongfully controls much of it.

    SwordShill, can you show me your deed?

    PS, please don't go on a tangent how we should strive to emulate other restrictionist/anti-liberty nations, this is supposed to be the land of the free ;-)
    I mean, the same deed that he supposedly should possess in order to stop people from coming onto that land would not apply to you as well to allow it? If it is not his to prohibit people from coming in, then it is not yours to give away freely. The question then becomes 'what is to be benefited from it', which is the point at which philosophical arguments fail and pragmatism takes over.

    I need only look at the disasters that are Europe and the state of California to know that once enough weight has been tied around your legs, you will not likely see the surface again. And I see no point in further encouragement of socialists into our midst.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 05-20-2019 at 09:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I will agree with you if you show me your deed. There is an awful lot of unused land out there that can be freely homesteaded, but afaik the BLM that you admire still wrongfully controls much of it.

    SwordShill, can you show me your deed?

    PS, please don't go on a tangent how we should strive to emulate other restrictionist/anti-liberty nations, this is supposed to be the land of the free ;-)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    A $#@!ing HOUSE audit. YES! Yes it would land you or I in jail. And he is using his position to fight the notion that the House can go on a fishing expedition. Just like Ron Paul would probably do when a body of Government overreaches those powers granted to it.
    Because THIS is what it is about. Whether it's Ron Paul or whether it is Trump. It is about the House's over reach in it's granted authority.
    Which most of us see as a good thing. Unless, you suffer from TDS and believe any and any measure to take him out is good to go.
    Maybe. The House can review tax returns for legislative purposes. The possibility that Trump has been giving favors to favor seekers foreign and domestic who use the services of his hotels is certainly an area where legitimate legislation could occur. The odds of you or I being in a situation where we could sell influence in a way creative enough to warrant new legislation is remote. The reason all this is unprecedented is because every president has voluntarily released his tax returns every year since 1976. Just as Ron Paul did (which is why I made the statement you ignored that this would never have come up in a Paul presidency). The last one who figured he was too good for transparency was Nixon. Until now.

    And as usual, Swordshyll is mistaken. The House is not looking for anything more than his tax returns and the documents that support them. If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe Fox.

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...ecords-release

    Even if the House does get them, and even if they are just digging for dirt, and even if they find it, they won't be able to show them to anyone, and won't be able to pass any ex post facto laws to snag him. So if he has good reason to keep these secrets, like he already violated existing laws, it's going to get interesting, because they presumably can't even show the proof to prosecutors.

    And thank you both for your concern. I and mine had no trouble from the storm. Your humane solicitude is touching.

    Jesus H. Christ.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Oh, brother.
    You are free to rebut but I guess monkey emojis are better for winning arguments?
    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Maybe. The House can review tax returns for legislative purposes. The possibility that Trump has been giving favors to favor seekers foreign and domestic who use the services of his hotels is certainly an area where legitimate legislation could occur. The odds of you or I being in a situation where we could sell influence in a way creative enough to warrant new legislation is remote.
    It isn't tied to legislation, it is just a fishing expedition.



    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And as usual, Swordshyll is mistaken. The House is not looking for anything more than his tax returns and the documents that support them. If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe Fox.

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...ecords-release
    I never said anything different, they don't have a right to those.


    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Even if the House does get them, and even if they are just digging for dirt, and even if they find it, they won't be able to show them to anyone, and won't be able to pass any ex post facto laws to snag him. So if he has good reason to keep these secrets, like he already violated existing laws, it's going to get interesting, because they presumably can't even show the proof to prosecutors.
    LOL

    They will just leak it all or read it into the public record because they can't be held accountable for what they do while in session.


    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And thank you both for your concern. I and mine had no trouble from the storm. Your humane solicitude is touching.

    Jesus H. Christ.
    That's a nice victim card but I'm not in the market for one.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Maybe. The House can review tax returns for legislative purposes. The possibility that Trump has been giving favors to favor seekers foreign and domestic who use the services of his hotels is certainly an area where legitimate legislation could occur. The odds of you or I being in a situation where we could sell influence in a way creative enough to warrant new legislation is remote. The reason all this is unprecedented is because every president has voluntarily released his tax returns every year since 1976. Just as Ron Paul did (which is why I made the statement you ignored that this would never have come up in a Paul presidency). The last one who figured he was too good for transparency was Nixon. Until now.

    And as usual, Swordshyll is mistaken. The House is not looking for anything more than his tax returns and the documents that support them. If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe Fox.

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...ecords-release

    Even if the House does get them, and even if they are just digging for dirt, and even if they find it, they won't be able to show them to anyone, and won't be able to pass any ex post facto laws to snag him. So if he has good reason to keep these secrets, like he already violated existing laws, it's going to get interesting, because they presumably can't even show the proof to prosecutors.

    And thank you both for your concern. I and mine had no trouble from the storm. Your humane solicitude is touching.

    Jesus H. Christ.
    Just stop with your bull$#@! already. You and everyone else knows well and good the purpose of obtaining information is for an anonymous "source" to leak it to the press. We learned this well and good because...Trump. You know damn well that whatever information is given, all secret and security clearance aside, will just make it into the left wing media tomorrow. All speculation and heresay. The McCain Steel dossier legacy.
    So just stop with the bull$#@! already.
    Last edited by phill4paul; 05-20-2019 at 10:21 PM.

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It isn't tied to legislation, it is just a fishing expedition.
    I believe the term you used was witch hunt. It's your usual double standard. Judge Nap. Justin $#@!ing Amash now, as if you're worthy to polish his shoes. Half this forum. All you do is hunt witches. You're the Spanish $#@!ing Inquisition.

    You have no idea what they'll use it for. But, as we can all see, you never, ever let a little thing like a lack of ESP (or an abundance if ignorance) keep you from spouting off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They will just leak it all or read it into the public record because they can't be held accountable for what they do while in session.
    Let he who never goes fishing cast the first stone. Oh, wait. Those with rocks in their head can't cast anything else.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Just stop with your bull$#@! already. You and everyone else knows well and good the purpose of obtaining information is for an anonymous "source" to leak it to the press. We learned this well and good because...Trump. You know damn well that whatever information is given, all secret and security clearance aside, will just make it into the left wing media tomorrow. All speculation and heresay. The McCain Steel dossier legacy.
    So just stop with the bull$#@! already.
    Democrats wouldn't do that (again, again), would they?
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I believe the term you used was witch hunt. It's your usual double standard. Judge Nap. Justin $#@!ing Amash now, as if you're worthy to polish his shoes. Half this forum. All you do is hunt witches. You're the Spanish $#@!ing Inquisition.
    LOL
    I wait until people do bad and stupid things that are publicly known and reported and I make that information available to others, that in no way constitutes a witch hunt.
    I also post lots of other positive information and suggestions.


    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You have no idea what they'll use it for. But, as we can all see, you never, ever let a little thing like a lack of ESP (or an abundance if ignorance) keep you from spouting off.
    They don't get to demand it because they might do something legitimate with it, they have to have a legitimate reason to ask for it according to the unconstitutional law.
    And anyone with two brain cells knows what they want it for, they are in the midst of a blatant witch hunt.



    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Let he who never goes fishing cast the first stone. Oh, wait. Those with rocks in their head can't cast anything else.
    I've never snooped into anyone's private information in the hopes of getting them in trouble in my life, I suggest you consult a competent brain specialist about those rocks.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  27. #113
    Nope. If I have to hand over my papers then so does trump.
    No - No - No - No
    2016

  28. #114
    This violates the 4th .. the government has no right to my papers. They want to see how much money he is paying the government? The government has no right to my money.

  29. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by asurfaholic View Post
    Nope. If I have to hand over my papers then so does trump.
    When have you ever had to hand over your papers to a house committee?

  30. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The reason all this is unprecedented is because every president has voluntarily released his tax returns every year since 1976. Just as Ron Paul did (which is why I made the statement you ignored that this would never have come up in a Paul presidency). The last one who figured he was too good for transparency was Nixon. Until now.
    Please point me to where Ron Paul released his tax returns, as I do not recall that ever happening. I recall him releasing approx. assets as all congressional members are required to do, but not his tax returns.

    In fact when asked about it in 2012 Ron Paul said:
    "I don’t have any intention of releasing it – but for a different reason. I’d probably be embarrassed to put my financial statements next to (the other candidates') income and I don’t want to be embarrassed because I don’t have a greater income.”
    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2012/...est-4-16&abv=1

    and


    “With our financial statements, congressional financial statements, I think you know more about me than I know about myself,” Paul said. “That’s how my wife found out so much about what we were doing, you know from my financial statements.”
    Paul ended on a serious note, turning to address the other candidates directly.
    “I don’t’ think people need that because nobody is challenging me because I have no conflict of interests and I don’t even talk to lobbyists and I don’t take that kind of money,” he said.
    https://thehill.com/video/campaign/2...lease-question

  31. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL
    I wait until people do bad and stupid things that are publicly known and reported and I make that information available to others, that in no way constitutes a witch hunt.
    I also post lots of other positive information and suggestions.



    They don't get to demand it because they might do something legitimate with it, they have to have a legitimate reason to ask for it according to the unconstitutional law.
    And anyone with two brain cells knows what they want it for, they are in the midst of a blatant witch hunt.




    I've never snooped into anyone's private information in the hopes of getting them in trouble in my life, I suggest you consult a competent brain specialist about those rocks.
    What you are is an AI bot. There is no respect, whether for enemy, friend or your idol. There is certainly no concern for your fellow man, because men are clearly not your fellows. There is only a lot of cut and paste, a lot of repetition (until you're called on it, then there's repetition of something else) a baud rate of about a million, and a post rate of a hundred a minute. And a constant repetition of your parameters.

    Well if Bryan wants to run a testing ground for AI bots that's his business.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  32. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    You are free to rebut but I guess monkey emojis are better for winning arguments?
    I have numerous posts pertaining to restrictionists, travel bans, "illegal", and other statist positions. I would enjoy the debate but perhaps look up some of my previous posts and we can jump over to those threads. Keep in mind this is RPF which has a site mission.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  33. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    In fact when asked about it in 2012 Ron Paul said:

    “I don’t’ think people need that because nobody is challenging me because I have no conflict of interests and I don’t even talk to lobbyists and I don’t take that kind of money,” he said.
    ^ This right here is why once in public office they should reveal everything which I do not believe anybody here would disagree with. Prior to holding public office, it is nobody's business.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  34. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    ^ This right here is why once in public office they should reveal everything which I do not believe anybody here would disagree with. Prior to holding public office, it is nobody's business.
    Only records of time WHILE in public office, NOT records from their time BEFORE in public office, yes? If so, then we agree.



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