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Thread: Federal judge rules Trump cannot block subpoena for financial records

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    @Anti Federalist, phill is trying to make your double posts look weak.
    4 in a row and you unlock a special ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    It apparently bothered you even though it was not a finger pointed at you. It should not have offended you if there was no truth to it and your mind was clear of it. But it did...
    And this makes you think I'm an anarchist? All the reams of evidence to the contrary gives you no pause at all?

    Suppose I were. Why would I feel guilty about it?
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I do not consider public office "unlimited" or "unreasonable" "search and seizure". I believe public workers taking money from tax payers should have everything out in the open as a condition of employment. Think of it as a Contract Right; I employ a worker under such and such condition(s) - if you do not like it there are other jobs to seek. But then a person has to understand Contract Rights to agree with this approach, which many here on this forum seems to suddenly oppose as of recent.
    Think what you want. But, it has NO basis in LAW.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Because these are indeed the parameters of the investigation then you would agree the whole action is wrong then?
    Prior to holding public office, the entire action is wrong. Once in public office and taking a wage, everything should be on the table for their employers (us).
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    So you think that Congress should be able to gain the tax record of any citizen...because...they simply want them?

    Is this what you advocate?
    No, I think so long as the government claims the right to do it to us, neither members if Congress, nor Supreme Court justices, nor the president should be immune.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You've never had any real-world dealings with the IRS, have you? Because you're the first person I've ever seen say anything this naive about them.
    But you support their violations of the 4th and 5th Amendments so phill is still more right than you.



    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So why isn't your golden-combovered boy giving us all relief from their abuses, instead of just himself?
    Trump has not given himself relief from the IRS, he is under audit.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    No, I think so long as the government claims the right to do it to us, neither members if Congress, nor Supreme Court justices, nor the president should be immune.
    And you support expanding it beyond the IRS to Congress.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Think what you want. But, it has NO basis in LAW.
    Key words: I believe

    Whether it has basis in LAW or not, this is something that I would strive to work toward.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    4 in a row and you unlock a special ability.
    LOL
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Yup. I wonder what a thorough investigation of the Clintons and Obama's would result in? Or the Shumers or Pelosi's?
    Yep.

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    No, I think so long as the government claims the right to do it to us, neither members if Congress, nor Supreme Court justices, nor the president should be immune.
    So, Trump is challenging this assertion. It'll have to go to court. Which means it may change this assertion the government claims. Which is bad? Why? Because Orange Man? You are coming down on the side of Government for personal reasons. You should give that a break.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But you support their violations of the 4th and 5th Amendments so phill is still more right than you.
    You seem to have pulled that from where the sun don't shine, because it has no basis in reality. Wherever you got it you may shove it back in now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump has not given himself relief from the IRS, he is under audit.
    And what would happen to anyone else if we refused to release records during an audit, hmmm...? Therefore he is using the Constitution to protect himself while he commits acts that would land any if the rest of us in jail, is that what you're saying? And I suppose you're going to try to spin that as not impeachable?

    You just painted you're ass in a corner. Whether or not you're smart enough to see it or honest enough to admit it.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-20-2019 at 07:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You seem to have pulled that from where the sun don't shine, because it has no basis in reality. Wherever you got it you may shove it back in now.
    You keep supporting it by trying to use it as justification for an even worse abuse.




    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And what would happen to anyone else if we refused to release records during an audit, hmmm...?
    He did release his records to the IRS for the audit, Congress is not the IRS and their fishing expedition is an even worse violation than IRS audits are.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Key words: I believe

    Whether it has basis in LAW or not, this is something that I would strive to work toward.
    And that is where it is headed. This will have to end up in the judicial. Does the House have the ability to subpeona the tax records of ANY citizen without cause. If it goes against the House it goes against the Government in general. $#@!, you have such an Orange Man Bad syndrom you can't see when he, by fighting for himself, is fighting for you.

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Prior to holding public office, the entire action is wrong. Once in public office and taking a wage, everything should be on the table for their employers (us).
    But this particular investigation is indeed overreaching to prior, should the investigation be supported knowing this? or not?

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    So, Trump is challenging this assertion. It'll have to go to court. Which means it may change this assertion the government claims. Which is bad? Why? Because Orange Man? You are coming down on the side of Government for personal reasons. You should give that a break.
    He has had two and a half years to fix this for all of us. What has he been doing instead?

    What he has been doing is claiming executive privilege, which does damn all for you and me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You keep supporting it by trying to use it as justification for an even worse abuse.





    He did release his records to the IRS for the audit, Congress is not the IRS and their fishing expedition is an even worse violation than IRS audits are.
    Keep contradicting yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And what would happen to anyone else if we refused to release records during an audit, hmmm...? Therefore he is using the Constitution to protect himself while he commits acts that would land any if the rest of us in jail, is that what you're saying? And I suppose you're going to try to spin that as not impeachable?
    The IRS has the $#@!ing records. It's the HOUSE he's stopping from going on a fishing expedition. What's so hard to understand?

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post

    And what would happen to anyone else if we refused to release records during an audit, hmmm...? Therefore he is using the Constitution to protect himself while he commits acts that would land any if the rest of us in jail, is that what you're saying? And I suppose you're going to try to spin that as not impeachable?

    You just painted you're ass in a corner. Whether or not you're smart enough to see it or honest enough to admit it.
    Your edit just made things worse.

    He did release his records to the IRS for the audit, Congress is not the IRS and their fishing expedition is an even worse violation than IRS audits are.

    And how would asserting his Constitutional rights which would create a precedent that would restore ours be an impeachable offense?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    And that is where it is headed. This will have to end up in the judicial. Does the House have the ability to subpeona the tax records of ANY citizen without cause. If it goes against the House it goes against the Government in general. $#@!, you have such an Orange Man Bad syndrom you can't see when he, by fighting for himself, is fighting for you.
    If it were Ron Paul it would be off the rails with how wrong and unconstitutional it is. Selective application of the Constitution again.

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    The IRS has the $#@!ing records. It's the HOUSE he's stopping from going on a fishing expedition. What's so hard to understand?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Your edit just made things worse.

    He did release his records to the IRS for the audit, Congress is not the IRS and their fishing expedition is an even worse violation than IRS audits are.

    And how would asserting his Constitutional rights which would create a precedent that would restore ours be an impeachable offense?
    Would you two try to come up with something new? I don't enjoy repeating myself the way you two do.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    And that is where it is headed. This will have to end up in the judicial. Does the House have the ability to subpeona the tax records of ANY citizen without cause. If it goes against the House it goes against the Government in general. $#@!, you have such an Orange Man Bad syndrom you can't see when he, by fighting for himself, is fighting for you.
    phill4paul, once again, read carefully - What any citizen does in private, or in the private sector, is none of my business. I feel that once a person holds public office, paid by tax money, everything should be on the table.

    I will also state this once again just for you - digging trumps financial records prior to holding office is none of my business; I do not care, I do not want to know; and what they are attempting is wrong. THIS coming from me who does not hail to trump.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    He has had two and a half years to fix this for all of us. What has he been doing instead?
    He is a dictator now?
    You missed all the other things he has fixed for us?
    You missed the entire Witch Hunt he has had to fight that you are now supporting?



    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    What he has been doing is claiming executive privilege, which does damn all for you and me.
    As I remember he has said that the law prohibits him from releasing the information while he is under audit and in this case he is claiming that Congress is engaging in unreasonable search and seizure.



    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Keep contradicting yourself.
    LOL

    There is no contradiction

    Get help.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #83
    I would be more interested to see what elijah cummings was worth before " public service " and what he is worth now .
    Do something Danke

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Would you two try to come up with something new? I don't enjoy repeating myself the way you two do.
    "I demand that you stop using facts to win the debate"
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    He has had two and a half years to fix this for all of us. What has he been doing instead?.
    Fighting off witch hunts. Like this one.



    It might actually be better for the democrats if they stopped pestering him and give him a chance to screw up royally, lol.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 05-20-2019 at 08:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    He has had two and a half years to fix this for all of us. What has he been doing instead?

    What he has been doing is claiming executive privilege, which does damn all for you and me.
    Christ, are we talking about the same thing? He's not invoking executive privilege over his tax records. He's simply refusing the release without a judicial fight. The same as you or I. And if he wins it is a win for us. But, you can't understand that. You can't even try. You can't because Orange Man Bad and your belief that every politician should have their books opened. Those are the two strong emotions driving your argument.
    So I'm not going to convince you otherwise, and I'll leave it at that.

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    But this particular investigation is indeed overreaching to prior, should the investigation be supported knowing this? or not?
    NOT

    Sheesh! Are you guys trying to extract something more out of me than what I said? lol
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    phill4paul, once again, read carefully - What any citizen does in private, or in the private sector, is none of my business. I feel that once a person holds public office, paid by tax money, everything should be on the table.

    I will also state this once again just for you - digging trumps financial records prior to holding office is none of my business; I do not care, I do not want to know; and what they are attempting is wrong. THIS coming from me who does not hail to trump.
    Fair enough. I personally believe that politicians should voluntarily give financial statements and that voters should take this into consideration.

    I fully agree that subpeona these records, without criminal allegations, is wrong, and not within the powers given, by the people, to the House.



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    NOT

    Sheesh! Are you guys trying to extract something more out of me than what I said? lol
    Then you would be right to say not, because that would be the right stance for anyone who actually believed in the Constitution and the liberty movement. To support and agree with it would be accepting government overreach that should never happen to anyone, even the Orange Man.

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    If it were Ron Paul it would be off the rails with how wrong and unconstitutional it is. Selective application of the Constitution again.
    Absolutely. If Ron Paul refused to release his records WWMT (What Would Members Think)?"

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