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Thread: Trump discusses Iran, names Military Industrial Complex; doesn't want war.

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by JoshLowry View Post
    Here's the breakdown:

    Trump: I don't wanna fight, but Iran better bend the knee. (You ignore the part in bold and leave it out of your OP)

    RPF: WTF Trump, you say the MIC wants war. So now you're the CIC, and you decide to saber rattle?

    Eleganz: RPF is pro war!
    Actually just the RPF TDS gang. There are RPF members who can call out Trump when he makes a bad decision and give him credit when he does something good.

    I don't think RPF is pro war but there is a small contingency of Never-Trumpism here who cannot control themselves when he does something that aligns with what we support. Are you one of them?
    Last edited by eleganz; 05-20-2019 at 10:06 PM.
    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I'm pretty sure Wilson and Johnson were known liars by that time.
    Stop for a second and think through how that line of reasoning applies to Trump.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Actually just the RPF TDS gang. There are RPF members who can call out Trump when he makes a bad decision and give him credit when he does something good.
    I am one of those. When he *does* something good, let me know and I'll give him credit. The problem is too many people being too eager to praise everything he says and too easily impressed by empty words. There are posters here who swear to this day that he kept his promise to make Mexico pay for the wall somewhere in a trade deal he renegotiated with them based on no evidence other than the fact that Trump said so. While we've got one contingent of blind partisans of Trump on this website cherry-picking an anti-war statement he made, there's a neoconservative Trump forum out there right now praising him for a cherry-picked pro-war statement that contradicts the anti-war one you consider so meaningful. When one of those two contradictory views that he holds all at the same time in his confused brain bears fruit in substantive action, then we will see which side ought to give him credit.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 05-21-2019 at 05:43 AM.

  5. #64
    I don't know which mod changed the thread title. But if anyone does, +rep them for me.



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Stop for a second and think through how that line of reasoning applies to Trump.
    I pay no attention to anything he says . He has no real agenda that I am aware of . Unlike someone like Johnson or Obama , if they tell you they are going to try and do something bad you could bank on it .
    Do something Danke

  8. #66
    Somebody should let Trump know that the buck stops with him.

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Somebody should let Trump know that the buck stops with him.
    The buck does NOT stop with him. Trump is not a king. What people fail to understand is that lobbyists and others pretty much control what goes on, but "the people" have the ability to change the tone if properly educated. Which is why "news" outlets and public school/common core/FedDeptEd are so bad.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I pay no attention to anything he says.
    That has proven to be very prudent of you.

    That's essentially the attitude that I think we should take to the things he says reported in the OP.

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The buck does NOT stop with him. Trump is not a king. What people fail to understand is that lobbyists and others pretty much control what goes on, but "the people" have the ability to change the tone if properly educated. Which is why "news" outlets and public school/common core/FedDeptEd are so bad.
    History proves otherwise. Sure its not supposed to stop with him; but lets discuss reality here. If trump does not want to go to war with Iran, he doesn't have to.

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    That has proven to be very prudent of you.

    That's essentially the attitude that I think we should take to the things he says reported in the OP.
    Naturally I oppose any war with Iran . Frankly it would be so stupid it is hard to believe anyone in right mind would consider it .
    Do something Danke

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The buck does NOT stop with him. Trump is not a king. What people fail to understand is that lobbyists and others pretty much control what goes on, but "the people" have the ability to change the tone if properly educated. Which is why "news" outlets and public school/common core/FedDeptEd are so bad.


    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    History proves otherwise. Sure its not supposed to stop with him; but lets discuss reality here. If trump does not want to go to war with Iran, he doesn't have to.
    Like Pearl Harbor, for instance. And Iraq.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Like Pearl Harbor, for instance. And Iraq.
    Good point, if the president at the time wanted to stop either of those wars before they started, both presidents could have done so. Just like I said.



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  16. #73
    And just like that it's over war averted, apparently, as the Pentagon announced Tuesday US defense posturing and military build-up in the Persian Gulf has thwarted potential attacks an Americans.
    Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan said Iran was forced to “put on hold” plans to harm American troops and their allies in the region:
    I think our steps were very prudent and we’ve put on hold the potential for attacks on Americans and that is what is extremely important,” Shanahan told reporters at the Pentagon, though without giving specifics.
    He added that Iran was ultimately forced to "recalculate" its aggression.



    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...t-attacks-hold

    Trump's claim seems vindicated, maybe we should change the title back to what it was.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #74
    Lol which one of the mods changed the title?

    I don't see every thread title on this forum being changed from "does" to "claims".

    It appears we have a mini-Silicon Valley up in here because some language doesn't jive with the hive. Its very much fine for a mod to have opinions and share them but leave it at that and don't exercise your opinions through your authority.
    Last edited by eleganz; 05-21-2019 at 10:27 PM.
    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    .....if properly educated.
    The perfect solution to every Utopians utopia. "proper education"


    If everybody just reads that one book, or if everybody just does this, or if everybody just does that....


    If you solution is "educate the populace" Then you don't have a solution.

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    That has proven to be very prudent of you.

    That's essentially the attitude that I think we should take to the things he says reported in the OP.
    It is important to hear a president even acknowledge such things.

    memeber when mentioning the MIC got you labeled a conspiracy theorist?

    I member.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    The perfect solution to every Utopians utopia. "proper education"


    If everybody just reads that one book, or if everybody just does this, or if everybody just does that....


    If you solution is "educate the populace" Then you don't have a solution.
    Anarchism is just like communism in that it requires and claims that it can produce a new breed of men, both are doomed to failure because it is not possible.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by JoshLowry View Post
    Please write out the words that he says after "I don't wanna fight"

    Since we are being clear, I noticed you left those out of the OP and they basically say, "but I will fight them if they don't bow to my demands."


  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    The perfect solution to every Utopians utopia. "proper education"


    If everybody just reads that one book, or if everybody just does this, or if everybody just does that....


    If you solution is "educate the populace" Then you don't have a solution.
    An idea that spreads itself can change the world one person at a time. Life is a democracy, a meritocracy of ideas. Today you won't change the world with a book but the establishment thinks you can change elections with memes.

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    An idea that spreads itself can change the world one person at a time. Life is a democracy, a meritocracy of ideas. Today you won't change the world with a book but the establishment thinks you can change elections with memes.
    But you will never achieve the universality required for utopian ideas, bad ideas spread too and new people who make new decisions about what to believe are born all the time.

    Equilibrium and Reversion to the Mean apply to ideas as well.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But you will never achieve the universality required for utopian ideas, bad ideas spread too and new people who make new decisions about what to believe are born all the time.

    Equilibrium and Reversion to the Mean apply to ideas as well.
    You won't get perfection but most people agree force is bad for me and you to initiate so it's not really that much of a stretch of the imagination to put those restrictions upon government.

  26. #82

    https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/statu...09763643625472

    So typical Trump. Says the 'right things' to appeal to concerned people about military industrial complex just so they might think:
    "Ahhh ol' Donnie knows what he's doing, this is proof if ever it was needed that he is trying to stop the swamp, he's got my support!".
    Meanwhile, disastrous team neocon aggression continues unimpeded with full consent upon sovereigns in both hemispheres.
    Last edited by goldenequity; 05-22-2019 at 05:17 AM.

  27. #83
    team neocon sampler


    https://twitter.com/RubenGallego/sta...02995857301510
    Last edited by goldenequity; 05-22-2019 at 05:17 AM.

  28. #84
    ugh.. keep screwing up these edits. srry.

    my point: I don't want 'placating soundbites'.

    here's my non-intervention sampler:
    I want support for YEMEN atrocity Over. Done. No More. The End.
    nope.
    Had it RIGHT in his lap. he vetoed.
    Last edited by goldenequity; 05-22-2019 at 05:24 AM.

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    The perfect solution to every Utopians utopia. "proper education"


    If everybody just reads that one book, or if everybody just does this, or if everybody just does that....


    If you solution is "educate the populace" Then you don't have a solution.

    So the solution is we don't educate the populace? I can quit wasting my time?

    Did anybody let Ron Paul know? Maybe now he can ride his bike more often ;-)
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    So the solution is we don't educate the populace? I can quit wasting my time?

    Did anybody let Ron Paul know? Maybe now he can ride his bike more often ;-)
    You should engage in education, just don't think that it will eliminate the need for other measures.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Anarchism is just like communism in that it requires and claims that it can produce a new breed of men, both are doomed to failure because it is not possible.

    Ah, NOW I get it, thanks to you and UWDude... only STATISM should be promoted, practiced, taught, repeated and all those other thing-a-ma-jigs ;-)

    You guys are super smart, I really love coming to this place
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You should engage in education, just don't think that it will eliminate the need for other measures.

    Like civil-disobedience, for instance? I really like that one.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    ...

    You're absolutely right in that he appears to be playing both sides. Despite what they regularly claim, his Trumpkin base seems content so long as he occasionally says what they want to hear, and the neocons are content so long as his actions maintain the status quo.

  35. #90
    again.

    US threatens to take action over HTS al Qaeda claim that Syrian Army troops used chemical weapons
    https://aml.ink/pNjeg

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