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Thread: Amash is saying Trump has engaged in an impeachable offense

  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Now we seem to be the ones on a fishing expedition. But at least we've begun to admit that this thing could be more complicated than it appears.
    It is complicated indeed, but that is the reality of law. But this all starts with the cause, The first domino to be pushed over in the chain. If the warrant and investigation was illegal in th first place then everything after has absolutely no standing no matter what it is. Especially any defense against an illegal warrant and investigation. And if these are illegal then all those involved can actually be charged with crimes.



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  3. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    It's a Constitutional protection we are all granted by right. It is due process.
    Impeachment is due process for the President.

  4. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    "Specific" is an interesting word. It could apply to "stolen goods", as that (though somewhat vague) does exclude drugs or illegally imported goods or bump stocks or unregistered firearms or child porn or...
    They are being allowed to word warrants broad like that but they are absolutely not legal. Not only does the warrant have to list an exact item they suspect you might have, it has to include the very serial number of the item from the original theft report. Anything other will get tossed out in court right away. You have no idea how many times I have personally been through this. Without a make, model, and serial number for the warrant you are done and it's a waste of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And it has never been as rigid as a loophole seeking fanboi might hope. Arguably, the Founders never intended it to be.
    They ABSOLUTELY did! unlike what is NOT being afforded to the President it was rightfully designed by the founders to give everyone the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

    What the hell happened to constitutional knowledge around here??? Everyone but the orange man???

  5. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Impeachment is due process for the President.
    Guilty or not right? Just cause...

  6. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    They are being allowed to word warrants broad like that but they are absolutely not legal. Not only does the warrant have to list an exact item they suspect you might have, it has to include the very serial number of the item from the original theft report. Anything other will get tossed out in court right away. You have no idea how many times I have personally been through this. Without a make, model, and serial number for the warrant you are done and it's a waste of time.

    They ABSOLUTELY did! unlike what is NOT being afforded to the President it was rightfully designed by the founders to give everyone the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

    What the hell happened to constitutional knowledge around here??? Everyone but the orange man???
    The Founding Fathers intended search warrants to bear serial numbers?
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  7. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Guilty or not right? Just cause...
    Impeachment has nothing to do with guilt, just like indictment has nothing to do with guilt.



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  9. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    If it's beyond the scope of the investigation, it doesn't matter.

    You don't get to make $#@! up, to go look into peoples houses, and find a crime.
    ESPECIALLY against political opponents.

    anyways, this is what the little weasel is basing his recommendation for impeachment on:

    "the context implies conduct that violates the public trust."
    ABSOLUTELY

  10. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Justin Amash Cumulative Freedom Index Score: 94%

    https://www.thenewamerican.com/index...nameid=A000367

    H R 3354: UN Human Rights Agencies
    Vote Date: September 7, 2017 Vote: NAY Bad Vote.
    During consideration of the omnibus appropriations bill (H.R. 3354), Representative Ted Yoho (R-Fla.) introduced an amendment to prohibit the use of funds for making contributions to various United Nations human rights agencies, including the United Nations Human Rights Council, the United Nations Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency.

    The House rejected Yoho’s amendment on September 7, 2017 by a vote of 199 to 212 (Roll Call 470). We have assigned pluses to the yeas because taxpayer money should not go to fund any agencies of the United Nations, especially those led by communist, Marxist, or radical Islamic regimes, which are some of the world’s biggest offenders of human rights.




    H RES 1099: Opioid Abuse Prevention and Health Programs
    Vote Date: September 28, 2018 Vote: NAY Good Vote.
    This bill (H.R. 6), as amended by the House, would expand Medicare and Medicaid to cover medication-assisted treatment for substance abuse and would place new requirements on states regarding Medicaid drug review and utilization requirements. It would appropriate $15 million annually, from fiscal 2019 through fiscal 2023, to support the establishment or operation of public-health laboratories to detect synthetic opioids. The House amendment to the Senate-amended bill would allow Medicaid patients with opioid- or cocaineabuse problems to stay for up to 30 days per year in certain treatment facilities with more than 16 beds.

    The House agreed to an amendment to the Senate-amended version of H.R. 6 on September 28, 2018 by a vote of 393 to 8 (Roll Call 415). We have assigned pluses to the nays because Medicare and Medicaid are both unconstitutional programs. The U.S. Constitution gives no authority to the federal government to pay people’s medical expenses, no matter how poor or disabled they are. Such assistance should be handled by states, charity, or the free market. Any expansion of Medicare or Medicaid, which is what this bill authorizes, should be voted against.



    Without getting into specific and detailed arguments about either of these, I would just note he's cool with sending US tax/debt funds to an international, unelected body trying to undermine national sovereignty but opposes US tax/debt funds to assist Americans with the most successful treatment known for addiction (medicated assisted therapy).

    I don't know what his deal is but to say this bull$#@! about Trump committing impeachable offenses (lies) and never having spoken up about the deep state/shadow government coup led by communists like Brennan really is not okay. There's no bigger threat to our freedom than the deep state/intel agencies. The f-ing FBI, along with the Southern Poverty Law Center, orchestrated the Oklahoma City Murrah Bldg bombing, including providing the explosives. Same with the World Trade Center bombing a year earlier. There would no "domestic terrorism" without the FBI but let's impeach Trump who the FBI and the rest of the deep state targeted and tried to frame!!!
    Last edited by susano; 05-19-2019 at 12:15 PM.

  11. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Impeachment has nothing to do with guilt, just like indictment has nothing to do with guilt.
    This is absolutely NOT true. In all cases there has to first be evidence. You can't just go around indicting folks because you just happen to not like them. Can you just imagine this if true? lol

    Apparently you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about at all.

  12. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Serious question:

    What did Trump do, specifically, to "obstruct justice"?

    ...
    Have not read Report but based on reports in public domain, following was sampling of only some of the things being thrown out by TDS critics regarding obstruction charge, there may be other un-redacted stuff, Flynn tapes etc.


    If there was no evidence of Obstruction Of Justice, why he left the door open for the OoJ charge?
    Two years of investigations and deliberations ought to be enough, nation really needed a closure on this divisive issue to move on.

    Update 1:
    This does not seem like obstruction of justice:

    March 24, 2019
    Barr added that when he and Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein reviewed the full report, the pair concluded that the evidence is “not sufficient”...
    Trump retweets meme calling for imprisonment of his own deputy attorney general
    By Aaron Rupar Nov 28, 2018



    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-obama-mueller


    Michael Cohen's lawyer accuses Rudy Giuliani of 'witness tampering
    He also said that “calling out a man's father-in-law and wife in order to intimidate the witness is not fair game and it needs to be investigated.”
    Davis didn’t spare Trump either.
    The lawyer said the president “indisputably intimidates and obstructs justice to prevent a witness from testifying.”
    https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...nged/23651875/


    On Eve of Michael Cohen’s Testimony, Republican Threatens to Reveal Compromising Information
    “Hey @michaelcohen212 - Do your wife & father-in-law know about your girlfriends? Maybe tonight would be a good time for that chat. I wonder if she’ll remain faithful when you’re in prison. She’s about to learn a lot,” Mr. Gaetz said on Twitter.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/u...testimony.html


    Mueller refers sex misconduct scheme targeting him to FBI for investigation
    Oct. 30, 2018By Brandy Zadrozny, Ben Collins and Tom Winter
    Special counsel Robert Mueller last week asked the FBI to investigate a possible scam in which a woman would make false claims that he was guilty of sexual misconduct and harassment, after several political reporters were contacted about doing a story on the alleged misconduct.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/jus...gation-n926301

    19 Mar 2018
    Revealed: Trump’s election consultants filmed saying they use bribes and sex workers to entrap politicians
    An undercover investigation by Channel 4 News reveals how Cambridge Analytica secretly campaigns in elections across the world. Bosses were filmed talking about using bribes, ex-spies, fake IDs and sex workers.

    Firm Linked to Israeli Intelligence Ran Pro-Trump Propaganda
    Oct 10, 2018 - According to the NYT, Special Counsel Robert Mueller who ... had been revealed that Trump's team hired another Israeli spy firm – Black Cube.

    “Morning Joe” co-hosts claim that Jared Kushner attempted to blackmail them
    June 30, 2017

  13. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Looks like he actually has personal financial interests that could possibly have some influence in this... This raises question marks for me.

    Michigan Republican Congressman Justin Amash made headlines Saturday by declaring on Twitter that President Trump deserved impeachment. The media was quick to promote his position and advance an anti-Trump narrative. However, a review of Amash’s financial interests quickly reveals a very personal business motive. His family tool business is heavily invested in Chinese manufacturing.

    In his 2017 financial disclosure forms (pdf here), Representative Amash reports income of between $100,000 to $1,000,000/yr. for his ownership stake in Michigan Industrial Tools. Michigan Industrial Tools is the parent company, manufacturing in China, that produces Tekton Tools, Justin Amash’s Michigan family business.

    According to an earlier Michigan article “Amash is a co-owner of Dynamic Source International, a Chinese company that supplies Michigan Industrial Tools.” A visit to the website of Dynamic Source International (link) shows the company operates “manufacturing and factory facilities located in Hangzhou, capital city of Zhejiang Province”, China.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...ests-in-china/
    He's cooked then.

    What irks me about this whole thing is that Trump is showing impressive restraint. If he were going after the corrupt lefties as hard as they're going after him, the Potomac would be red with blood.

    The democrats are acting like the psycho possessive girlfriend that stalks you after you try to walk out of a bad relationship. If you stay with her, she's gonna end up getting b*tch slapped. So you try to do the honorable thing and shrug it off, but she won't let you.

    AKA: Hillary lost, get over it.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 05-19-2019 at 12:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  14. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The Founding Fathers intended search warrants to bear serial numbers?
    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

    And I can tell you for a fact that if cannot give the police a serial number nothing will ever come of it ever. And even on a warrant with no serial number it will be tossed. Been there many times already both as a victim and a suspect.

  15. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    This is absolutely NOT true. In all cases there has to first be evidence. You can't just go around indicting folks because you just happen to not like them. Can you just imagine this if true? lol

    Apparently you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about at all.
    Neither one is a finding of guilt. Only a judge or a jury (Congress being the jury in the case of impeachment) can declare someone guilty.

    Inictment and impeachment merely put the case before the jury.

    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    He's cooked then.

    What irks me about this whole thing is that Trump is showing impressive restraint. If he were going after the corrupt lefties as hard as they're going after him, the Potomac would be red with blood.

    The democrats are acting like the psycho possessive girlfriend that stalks you after you try to walk out of a bad relationship. If you stay with her, she's gonna end up getting b*tch slapped. So you try to do the honorable thing and shrug it off, but she won't let you.

    AKA: Hillary lost, get over it.
    Well said. Yes, they're just doing to Trump what was done to Clinton. But they'd still be wiser to grow up.

    Hopefully this will wise all parties up, and once they're even the tit for tat will go tits up.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-19-2019 at 12:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  16. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    He's cooked then.

    What irks me about this whole thing is that Trump is showing impressive restraint. If he were going after the corrupt lefties as hard as they're going after him, the Potomac would be red with blood.

    The democrats are acting like the psycho possessive girlfriend that stalks you after you try to walk out of a bad relationship. If you stay with her, she's gonna end up getting b*tch slapped. So you try to do the honorable thing and shrug it off, but she won't let you.

    AKA: Hillary lost, get over it.
    It's childish, and there are apparently a lot of children in the room and no adults in the room.



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  18. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So, impeach him already...I fail to see how more talk will reduce "extreme partisanship".

    I've said all along that "I don't like that $#@!ing guy" is not an impeachable offense, but who knows these days?

    That's what the idiot GOP impeached Bill Clinton for in the 90s, instead of real high crimes like selling missile guidance technology to the ChiComs and reactor technology to the North Koreans or the mass murders in Waco Texas, and you see how far that went.
    Hear, hear! The Clintons could be charged with treason for Chinagate. I felt exactly as you when he was impeached over lying about Lewinsky. Yeah, he should have been thrown out for that conduct in the oval office but should have gone to prison over China.

  19. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    This is absolutely NOT true. In all cases there has to first be evidence.
    Evidence and guilt are not the same thing, Wormtongue.

  20. #227

    Justin Amash says Trump’s conduct impeachable

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...ueller-1332780

    Amash's twitter posts: https://twitter.com/justinamash?ref_...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

    Michigan Rep. Justin Amash became the first Republican lawmaker to declare that President Donald Trump committed impeachable offenses and that Attorney General William Barr “deliberately misrepresented” special counsel Robert Mueller’s report.

    Amash, whose libertarian views often put him at odds with Trump and his fellow Republicans, posted a series of tweets Saturday afternoon outlining positions that even some Democrats have been unwilling to embrace — an extraordinary development that comes as Democratic leaders face increasing pressure from progressives to launch impeachment proceedings.

    “Contrary to Barr’s portrayal, Mueller’s report reveals that President Trump engaged in specific actions and a pattern of behavior that meet the threshold for impeachment,” Amash wrote, arguing that lawmakers have become too afraid of using impeachment to deter presidential misconduct.

    “Impeachment, which is a special form of indictment, does not even require probable cause that a crime (e.g., obstruction of justice) has been committed; it simply requires a finding that an official has engaged in careless, abusive, corrupt, or otherwise dishonorable conduct,” Amash wrote.

    In recent days, more rank-and-file Democrats have said they support initiating impeachment proceedings against the president; but Speaker Nancy Pelosi and most Democratic leaders and committee chairs have resisted those calls, citing their ongoing investigations into the president’s alleged conduct. The House Judiciary Committee, for example, is investigating Trump for allegations of obstruction of justice and abuses of power.

    Around half of Mueller’s 448-page report is devoted to allegations that the president sought to undermine or shut down the special counsel’s investigation altogether. The report outlined several episodes that meet all the element of an obstruction of justice offense, most notably former White House Counsel Don McGahn’s testimony about Trump’s persistent efforts to have McGahn fire the special counsel.

    Amash argued that Congress is failing to live up to its constitutional duties in part because of “extreme partisanship” that has worsened under Trump.

    “While impeachment should be undertaken only in extraordinary circumstances, the risk we face in an environment of extreme partisanship is not that Congress will employ it as a remedy too often but rather that Congress will employ it so rarely that it cannot deter misconduct,” Amash said. “Our system of checks and balances relies on each branch’s [sic] jealously guarding its powers and upholding its duties under our Constitution. When loyalty to a political party or to an individual trumps loyalty to the Constitution, the Rule of Law — the foundation of liberty — crumbles.”

    The Michigan Republican also echoed Democrats and hundreds of former federal prosecutors who have argued that Trump would have been charged with obstruction of justice if he were not president — a reference to the Justice Department’s long-standing policy stating that a sitting president cannot be indicted. In his report, Mueller cited that policy when explaining his decision not to charge Trump with a crime.

    Amash took aim specifically at Barr, putting the GOP lawmaker in line with Democrats who have accused the attorney general of trying to portray Mueller’s report in a favorable light for the president.

    “In comparing Barr’s principal conclusions, congressional testimony, and other statements to Mueller’s report, it is clear that Barr intended to mislead the public about Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s analysis and findings,” Amash said, adding that “Barr’s misrepresentations are significant but often subtle, frequently taking the form of sleight-of-hand qualifications or logical fallacies, which he hopes people will not notice.”

    In a statement late Saturday, Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel slammed Amash for “parroting the Democrats’ talking points on Russia.” McDaniel did not explicitly endorse a GOP primary challenge to Amash in 2020, but noted that “voters in Amash’s district strongly support this president.”

    Despite Amash’s frequent opposition to Trump, he is one of the most conservative members of Congress and sits on the powerful House Oversight and Reform Committee, which is investigating Trump for alleged financial crimes. His fellow Republicans have maintained that Democrats’ various investigation of Trump are politically motivated and illegitimate, and they’ve largely declared Mueller’s Russia probe to be a settled issue that warrants no further action or investigation.

    Amash claimed that most members of Congress haven’t even read Mueller’s report, and he slammed those lawmakers whose minds were made up “within hours” of the release of the redacted version of Mueller’s report.

    “America’s institutions depend on officials to uphold both the rules and spirit of our constitutional system even when to do so is personally inconvenient or yields a politically unfavorable outcome. Our Constitution is brilliant and awesome; it deserves a government to match it,” he concluded.

    On Sunday, Trump lashed back at Amash via Twitter, suggesting Amash may not have actually read the Mueller report. (Trump has not stated whether he has read the report.)

    “Never a fan of @justinamash, a total lightweight who opposes me and some of our great Republican ideas and policies just for the sake of getting his name out there through controversy. If he actually read the biased Mueller Report, “composed” by 18 Angry Dems who hated Trump,.... ....he would see that it was nevertheless strong on NO COLLUSION and, ultimately, NO OBSTRUCTION...Anyway, how do you Obstruct when there is no crime and, in fact, the crimes were committed by the other side? Justin is a loser who sadly plays right into our opponents hands!“
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-19-2019 at 12:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  21. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Neither one is a finding of guilt. Only a judge or a jury (Congress being the jury in the case of impeachment) can declare someone guilty.

    Inictment and impeachment merely put the case before the jury.
    Before you can make a case you have to have reason to make a case. You just can't do this to anyone you like any time you like. Better go look it up, because you are wrong. Can you imagine what our justice system would be like if this was the case? Seriously...

  22. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    How again did Trump obstruct justice? Also, I cannot side with nailing someone for obstructing justice when then real crime being investigated is non existent. Precedent be damned.
    It's Kafkaesque. When someone tries to FRAME you and people around you, dare to object and it's "obstruction of justice". Meanwhile, Comey gave the green light for the Clinton mafia to actually destroy evidence (hard drives, cell phones, documents). Remember Amash being outraged about that? Neither do I.

  23. #230
    You're a day late and 227 posts short there, NeoZippy. Didn't your predecessor teach you how to use this kludgy search function before he quit?
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  24. #231

  25. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Evidence and guilt are not the same thing, Wormtongue.
    There it is... The immature childish derogatory retort. Verifies I am one of the adults in the room. Thank you.



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  27. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Before you can make a case you have to have reason to make a case. You just can't do this to anyone you like any time you like. Better go look it up, because you are wrong. Can you imagine what our justice system would be like if this was the case? Seriously...
    Yes, an indictment (or impeachment, or even just a warrant) must be based on evidence. Where did I say otherwise? Quote it.

    Neither an indictment nor an impeachment is a finding of guilt. It's just the step that leads to the trial. Right? Are you denying it?

    Now. What am I wrong about?

    There are posters around in such a mad rush to reply that they post replies that make no sense. I say, what's the big hurry? Where's the fire?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-19-2019 at 12:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  28. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    I think I have to go edit my signature now, hahaha.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  29. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    There it is... The immature childish derogatory retort. Verifies I am one of the adults in the room. Thank you.
    It's appropriate when what you're trying to do is conflate two entirely different things in an intellectually dishonest manner. Specifically, what you're doing is called motte and bailey. In this case, guilt is the bailey and evidence is the motte.

    Motte and bailey (MAB) is a combination of bait-and-switch and equivocation in which someone switches between a "motte" (an easy-to-defend and often common-sense statement, such as "culture shapes our experiences") and a "bailey" (a hard-to-defend and more controversial statement, such as "cultural knowledge is just as valid as scientific knowledge") in order to defend a viewpoint. Someone will argue the easy-to-defend position (motte) temporarily, to ward off critics, while the less-defensible position (bailey) remains the desired belief, yet is never actually defended.

    In short: instead of defending a weak position (the "bailey"), the arguer retreats to a strong position (the "motte"), while acting as though the positions are equivalent. When the motte has been accepted (or found impenetrable) by an opponent, the arguer continues to believe (and perhaps promote) the bailey.

  30. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    With such an incredibly high Freedom Index Score of 94% it is easy to figure out why the Anti-Freedom Shills want him ousted. Take a look at this thread, for instance.
    Exactly where does a deep state state coup, in conjunction with foreign entities, framing and spying on innocent people with the intent to destroy them to get at Trump, and Trump and these people objecting to such an abuse of power, fit in with your idea of "freedom"? What's been going on here is equivalent to Soviet show trials.

  31. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Chibioz View Post
    His whole TDS ramble can be read here: https://twitter.com/justinamash/stat...31626844921862

    Dude's a loser and should be voted out.
    Ya know, this stuff really irks me. Myself and a lot of other liberty activists just finished busting ours asses for 2 straight months, day after day, to try to get a liberty-minded person into the US House (Ridenhour NC9). And some of you are calling to remove one of the most steadfast liberty Representatives in the House over some TRUMP junk. Makes me wonder why bust our asses when some of our (allegedly) own will so flippantly call for the removal of a liberty Rep over the conduct of a President that so far has done practically nothing liberty platform oriented?

    And obviously with no foresight whatsoever because whoever would replace him would be MUCH, MUCH worse than Amash ever could be. Do you people think we have liberty candidates lined up across the board ready to win office? In Ridenhour's race, the winner spent a quarter million dollars of his own money to win. Are you prepared to max out on every liberty candidate's campaign? If the answer is no then zip it. You're hurting more than helping and I'd guess doing precisely ZERO in your own life to get liberty candidates into office.
    Last edited by devil21; 05-19-2019 at 12:58 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  32. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Exactly where does a deep state state coup, in conjunction with foreign entities, framing and spying on innocent people with the intent to destroy them to get at Trump, and Trump and these people objecting to such an abuse of power, fit in with your idea of "freedom"? What's been going on here is equivalent to Soviet show trials.
    A call for impeachment is a call to air evidence which has, so far, been kept secret. If any of this is Soviet-like, it isn't what Amash said.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Ya know, this stuff really irks me. Myself and a lot of other liberty activists just finished busting ours asses for 2 straight months, day after day, to try to get a liberty-minded person into the US House (Ridenhour NC9). And some of you are calling to remove one of the most steadfast liberty Representatives in the House over some TRUMP junk. Makes me wonder why bust our asses when some of our (allegedly) own will so flippantly call for the removal of a liberty Rep over the conduct of a President that so far has done practically nothing liberty platform oriented?
    When you throw all principle to the wind to defend some clown just because you don't want to admit voting for him was a mistake, you become a useful idiot for the Establishment. And when you act as a useful idiot for the Establishment, you just can't help becoming a useful idiot for Democrats.

    But you know. Purists keep us from nibbling at our problems blah blah blah.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-19-2019 at 12:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  33. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Yes, an indictment (or impeachment, or even just a warrant) must be based on evidence. Where did I say otherwise? Quote it.
    Read back through your own replies, it is there if you are honest about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Neither an indictment nor an impeachment is a finding of guilt. It's just the step that leads to the trial. Right? Are you denying it?
    Absolutely... But first there must be a case to justify. To justify a case there first must be evidence. You just can't assume someone is guilty based on rumor like many here are without any evidence yet. EVERYONE even the Orange man are innocent until proven guilty and he has been found guilty of a pre-crime here based on rumors so far from Amash.

    He is not being afforded equal due process, he IS NOT GUILTY just because Amash says so.

  34. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Due to his recent behavior I don't expect that he will for much longer.
    He'll get re-elected because he's an incumbent Republican in a conservative district. While more libscum have discovered our corner of the world and many immigrants have been shipped in, I don't see Amash scoring with Degenocrats, no matter how much he panders to the "Resist" crowd. They're looking at abortion and they will vote left.



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