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Thread: Amash is saying Trump has engaged in an impeachable offense

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by nbhadja View Post
    Yes, I agree. He votes much better than most members of congress (though he is absolutely pathetic on immigration), but I personally dislike the guy and think he is a sell out coward and a short sighted moron blinded by purity and personal greed. He is clearly opposed to Trump in order to try and save his family business, which is reliant on cheap Chinese manufacturing. He is so blinded by purity and lacking long term strategy that he just pissed off most Republican voters and greatly increased the chances that he fails to get reelected in 2020. I will laugh when he gets voted out and his family business fails as well.
    Noted.

    He is too pure presumably on immigration and free trade and is versed on economic logic enough to have lost your vote.

    I would recommend looking into his background and then following up with, Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt or Economic Sophisms by Frederic Bastiat.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump



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  3. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Noted.

    He is too pure presumably on immigration and free trade and is versed on economic logic enough to have lost your vote.

    I would recommend looking into his background and then following up with, Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt or Economic Sophisms by Frederic Bastiat.
    ChiCom manipulated trade is not free trade or good for our country and open borders will ensure the extinction of liberty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  5. #153
    This is getting silly.

  6. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    It started silly.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #155
    this place is turning into a third world $#@!hole

  8. #156
    Amash wants impeachment 'cause principles. Rand Paul does not want impeachment 'cause principles. Only one is correct. Choose.

  9. #157
    Besides the anti-Zionist angle and Amash being Palestinian, his family's business being affected by the China tarrifs etc...

    I think he is doing it to get press and name recognition ahead of his announcement of a third party run for the LP in 2020.

    Not a smart move to use the Mueller saga as a vehicle for that imho, but I think that is the most likely motivation.

    By the way:
    From a legal point of view, obstruction does NOT require an underlying crime, because obstruction is aimed at preventing the collection of evidence and therefore getting an indicment (H. Clintons deletion of 33000 emails qualifies for sure). The threshold of proof in criminal cases is very high ("beyond reasonable doubt") which is why prosecutors love process crimes like lying to them or obstruction. They are much easier to prove. It is BS and contrary to any common sense, but that is the legal theory behind it.
    The Mueller report, however, is NOT claiming that they proved obstruction (beyond reasonable doubt). Instead, they are saying that they could not "exonerate" Trump. Exoneration is NOT a concept of criminal law. It would require proving a negative which is impossible. It also puts the principle of "inncocent until proven guilty" on its head. According to this principle, you are automatically deemed innocent once the prosecution closes the case without an indicment. The exoneration terminolgy used by the Mueller team is a bone thrown to Congress, so that they have a political football to toss arround.
    Last edited by swissaustrian; 05-19-2019 at 03:37 AM.

  10. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    I DONT NEED TO.
    THERE WAS NO RUSSIAN COLLUSION.
    PERIOD. END OF.

    Anything Trump did to try to block this stream of treasonous BS about Russian collusion, is cool in my book.
    Hell if he would have had Meuller killed with the heart attack gun, I would have been cool with it, because, THE WHOLE THING WAS MADE UP, TREASONOUS NONSENSE, FOR WHICH TENS OF THOUSANDS NEED TO BE EXECUTED.
    You mad bro?
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.

  11. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    Amash wants impeachment 'cause principles. Rand Paul does not want impeachment 'cause principles. Only one is correct. Choose.
    Has Rand read through the report?

  12. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Has Rand read through the report?
    As a gambler, without knowing the answer, but by judging by Rand's character, I would bet that he most certainly has read the report. He is a person that relishes facts. Rand is not wrong on facts or history therefore he most definitely has read the report.



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  14. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So, impeach him already...I fail to see how more talk will reduce "extreme partisanship".

    I've said all along that "I don't like that $#@!ing guy" is not an impeachable offense, but who knows these days?

    That's what the idiot GOP impeached Bill Clinton for in the 90s, instead of real high crimes like selling missile guidance technology to the ChiComs and reactor technology to the North Koreans or the mass murders in Waco Texas, and you see how far that went.
    ^^^^this egg-zactly^^^^

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  15. #162
    I've always supported Amash. I still support Amash because he is one of the best we have. But I completely and totally disagree with his stance on Trump. He DOES have TDS and I suspect it has to do with Trump's immigration policy and also, Israel. Amash is putting his personal feelings/personal loyalties ahead of what is best for the country, imho. Maybe, I'm wrong, but that's just my impression for now. We need Amash and this is not going to go over well with Republican voters. If Amash had reason to call for impeachment, that would be a different story, but he has nothing.

    I hated Trump and didn't vote for him. But my mild case of "TDS" was turned around once he was in office and making a lot of positive changes. Hope that continues to be the case for the next few years. I guess time will tell.
    Last edited by PursuePeace; 05-19-2019 at 07:13 AM.

  16. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by axiomata View Post
    this place is turning into a third world $#@!hole
    I always figured it would
    Do something Danke

  17. #164
    Doesn't Amash have a lot of dems in his district?

    I hate to tell him that when you try to appeal to everyone and straddle the fence, you usually get impaled on that fence. Buddying up to democrats is gonna piss off Republicans and the Democrats would rather see him replaced with someone who lines up more with their big spending/big government beliefs. I honestly don't know what he's trying to accomplish.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  18. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Doesn't Amash have a lot of dems in his district?

    I hate to tell him that when you try to appeal to everyone and straddle the fence, you usually get impaled on that fence. Buddying up to democrats is gonna piss off Republicans and the Democrats would rather see him replaced with someone who lines up more with their big spending/big government beliefs. I honestly don't know what he's trying to accomplish.
    yep.

  19. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Doesn't Amash have a lot of dems in his district?

    I hate to tell him that when you try to appeal to everyone and straddle the fence, you usually get impaled on that fence. Buddying up to democrats is gonna piss off Republicans and the Democrats would rather see him replaced with someone who lines up more with their big spending/big government beliefs. I honestly don't know what he's trying to accomplish.
    No his district, which is right next to mine, is pure R.

  20. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Doesn't Amash have a lot of dems in his district?

    I hate to tell him that when you try to appeal to everyone and straddle the fence, you usually get impaled on that fence. Buddying up to democrats is gonna piss off Republicans and the Democrats would rather see him replaced with someone who lines up more with their big spending/big government beliefs. I honestly don't know what he's trying to accomplish.
    Looks like he actually has personal financial interests that could possibly have some influence in this... This raises question marks for me.

    Michigan Republican Congressman Justin Amash made headlines Saturday by declaring on Twitter that President Trump deserved impeachment. The media was quick to promote his position and advance an anti-Trump narrative. However, a review of Amash’s financial interests quickly reveals a very personal business motive. His family tool business is heavily invested in Chinese manufacturing.

    In his 2017 financial disclosure forms (pdf here), Representative Amash reports income of between $100,000 to $1,000,000/yr. for his ownership stake in Michigan Industrial Tools. Michigan Industrial Tools is the parent company, manufacturing in China, that produces Tekton Tools, Justin Amash’s Michigan family business.

    According to an earlier Michigan article “Amash is a co-owner of Dynamic Source International, a Chinese company that supplies Michigan Industrial Tools.” A visit to the website of Dynamic Source International (link) shows the company operates “manufacturing and factory facilities located in Hangzhou, capital city of Zhejiang Province”, China.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...ests-in-china/

  21. #168
    Something feels off about him coming out with this statement.
    Is he stupid ?
    Defending yourself from a false charge of political slander by any and all means is not really obstruction of justice.
    If it was true, only then would it be obstruction of justice, some say it doesn't matter, people that want true justice would be moving on and flipping to, whoever set Trump up needs to go to jail. Instead of spending a second more trying to impeach Trump on an obstruction of justice charge.
    Crazy politics.
    Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos



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  23. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Who here has read the Mueller report? I haven't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    IF he really believes there was obstruction of justice it is only because he WANTS to believe it because of his TDS.
    The facts don't seem to matter to the trumpcucks.
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    We could pay off the debt with the money raised from live broadcast executions.

    Be just like 1984. Truckloads of em, people betting on which one gets shot first, all sorts of fun stuff
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  24. #170
    I see some butt-hurt going on in this thread.
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.

  25. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by ProBlue33 View Post
    Something feels off about him coming out with this statement.
    Is he stupid ?
    Defending yourself from a false charge of political slander by any and all means is not really obstruction of justice.
    If it was true, only then would it be obstruction of justice, some say it doesn't matter, people that want true justice would be moving on and flipping to, whoever set Trump up needs to go to jail. Instead of spending a second more trying to impeach Trump on an obstruction of justice charge.
    Crazy politics.
    I agree. Part of his statement raises question marks...

    "“Contrary to Barr’s portrayal, Mueller’s report reveals that President Trump engaged in specific actions and a pattern of behavior that meets the threshold for impeachment,” the congressman tweeted. He said the report “identifies multiple examples of conduct satisfying all the elements of obstruction of justice, and undoubtedly any person who is not the president of the United States would be indicted based on such evidence.”

    Now does this indicate that because he is President, whatever he supposedly did may have actually been within his legal powers and protections as POTUS and he is not just "any other person"?

    Also it appears that the whole warrant and investigation it's self was illegal from the start. If this is true, then it doesn't matter what Trump did at all, it would be inadmissible anyhow.

  26. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The facts don't seem to matter to the trumpcucks.
    Here is a fact if found to be true in the whole of things. Defending yourself from an illegal action is not obstruction. If the warrant and investigation were illegal, everything else has absolutely no legal bearing and would be inadmissible in every court of law.

  27. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    As a gambler, without knowing the answer, but by judging by Rand's character, I would bet that he most certainly has read the report. He is a person that relishes facts. Rand is not wrong on facts or history therefore he most definitely has read the report.
    Then he can easily say he read the report and disagrees with Amash.

    While I don’t know if impeachment is the right thing to pursue, I do trust Justin’s character a lot more than Trump.

  28. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't want Trump impeached.
    Why not?

    I don't care really,,but I am Curious.. What about the Lying trouble making Clown is worth defending?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  29. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Then he can easily say he read the report and disagrees with Amash.

    While I don’t know if impeachment is the right thing to pursue, I do trust Justin’s character a lot more than Trump.
    Someone asked Rand if he would support Amash if he ran against Trump and he said he would support the president. I wonder if Amash is going to run and that's what he is doing this for.

  30. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Someone asked Rand if he would support Amash if he ran against Trump and he said he would support the president. I wonder if Amash is going to run and that's what he is doing this for.
    He has indeed made this possibility known already.



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  32. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Why not?

    I don't care really,,but I am Curious.. What about the Lying trouble making Clown is worth defending?
    One thing I like that Trump has done is made it easier for people who are out of options to try experimental medicines

  33. #178
    If he is running, he has no chance, anybody who runs against Trump in a primary is throwing away both money and time.
    It a fools errand.
    If they couldn't beat him in 2015/2016, there is no way they have a chance now.
    Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos

  34. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Why not?

    I don't care really,,but I am Curious.. What about the Lying trouble making Clown is worth defending?
    This^ ... what has he done? The swamp has yet to be “drained,” only has had neocons reshuffled (circa Bolton et. al). Only thing I see that has done is keep his base charged and country polarized just like how his predecessor did with the only exception being that he uses extreme right wing talking points to polarize instead of extreme left.

  35. #180

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