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Thread: Amash is saying Trump has engaged in an impeachable offense

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Trump fires back, calls Justin a 'loser'

    https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...hed-engaged-in
    In addition to Trump, the Republican National Committee (RNC) denounced Amash over his accusation.

    “It’s sad to see Congressman Amash parroting the Democrats’ talking points on Russia. The only people still fixated on the Russia collusion hoax are political foes of President Trump hoping to defeat him in 2020 by any desperate means possible," said RNC Chairwoman Ronna Romney McDaniel.
    It is sad.
    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the MSM can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the MSM to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the MSM.” - Joseph Goebbels(Modified)



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  3. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    One thing I like that Trump has done is made it easier for people who are out of options to try experimental medicines
    He has been good on criminal justice reform too, IIRC.

  4. #183
    Ok I did a little bit of digging around as to why, because it didn't make logical sense, but Amash has a very selfish motivation for this move.


    A review of Amash’s financial interests quickly reveals a very personal business motive. His family tool business is heavily invested in Chinese manufacturing.

    Representative Amash reports income of between $100,000 to $1,000,000/yr. for his ownership stake in Michigan Industrial Tools. Michigan Industrial Tools is the parent company, manufacturing in China, that produces Tekton Tools, Justin Amash’s Michigan family business.

    https://www.tekton.com/


    Obviously President Trump’s tariff and trade position against China is adverse to the financial interests of Justin Amash.
    And there has been issues with him saying his tools are Made in the USA and they are not.

    I just lost all respect for him, pathetic.

    Beyond that, Reddit is talking about launching a primary challenger to him because he is viewed as a total traitor now.
    Last edited by ProBlue33; 05-19-2019 at 10:09 AM.
    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the MSM can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the MSM to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the MSM.” - Joseph Goebbels(Modified)

  5. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by swissaustrian View Post
    Besides the anti-Zionist angle and Amash being Palestinian, his family's business being affected by the China tarrifs etc...

    I think he is doing it to get press and name recognition ahead of his announcement of a third party run for the LP in 2020.

    Not a smart move to use the Mueller saga as a vehicle for that imho, but I think that is the most likely motivation.

    By the way:
    From a legal point of view, obstruction does NOT require an underlying crime, because obstruction is aimed at preventing the collection of evidence and therefore getting an indicment (H. Clintons deletion of 33000 emails qualifies for sure). The threshold of proof in criminal cases is very high ("beyond reasonable doubt") which is why prosecutors love process crimes like lying to them or obstruction. They are much easier to prove. It is BS and contrary to any common sense, but that is the legal theory behind it.
    The Mueller report, however, is NOT claiming that they proved obstruction (beyond reasonable doubt). Instead, they are saying that they could not "exonerate" Trump. Exoneration is NOT a concept of criminal law. It would require proving a negative which is impossible. It also puts the principle of "inncocent until proven guilty" on its head. According to this principle, you are automatically deemed innocent once the prosecution closes the case without an indicment. The exoneration terminolgy used by the Mueller team is a bone thrown to Congress, so that they have a political football to toss arround.
    And it is no different than charging somebody under the sole charge of "resisting arrest" when no other crime has been committed. It is a strange world when one sees self claimed libertarians arguing in favor of such absurdities.



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  7. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by ProBlue33 View Post
    Ok I did a little bit of digging around as to why, because it didn't make logical sense, but and Amash has a very selfish motivation for this move.


    A review of Amash’s financial interests quickly reveals a very personal business motive. His family tool business is heavily invested in Chinese manufacturing.

    Representative Amash reports income of between $100,000 to $1,000,000/yr. for his ownership stake in Michigan Industrial Tools. Michigan Industrial Tools is the parent company, manufacturing in China, that produces Tekton Tools, Justin Amash’s Michigan family business.

    https://www.tekton.com/


    Obviously President Trump’s tariff and trade position against China is adverse to the financial interests of Justin Amash.
    And there has been issues with him saying his tools are Made in the USA and they are not.

    I just lost all respect for him, pathetic.

    Beyond that, Reddit is talking about launching a primary challenger to him because he is viewed as a total traitor now.
    Yep... I posted this personal conflict of interest earlier on another thread.

  8. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    And it is no different than charging somebody under the sole charge of "resisting arrest" when no other crime has been committed. It is a strange world when one sees self claimed libertarians arguing in favor of such absurdities.
    We now live in a world of being judged guilty for "rumor and thought crimes".
    Last edited by ATruepatriot; 05-19-2019 at 10:04 AM.

  9. #187
    As far as I'm concerned Amash pretty much killed his presidential ambitions with this move. Can you imagine whats going to happen if he runs in 2024? Trump and the rest of the Republican candidates are going to be attacking him for being the only Republican calling for impeachment.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  10. #188
    I think he is doing it to get press and name recognition ahead of his announcement of a third party run for the LP in 2020.
    Now that the China connection is in play, I don't think he has a chance, it was political suicide, even Mitt Romney came out against it, that's how bad it is.
    Very stupid move.
    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the MSM can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the MSM to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the MSM.” - Joseph Goebbels(Modified)

  11. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    As far as I'm concerned Amash pretty much killed his presidential ambitions with this move. Can you imagine whats going to happen if he runs in 2024? Trump and the rest of the Republican candidates are going to be attacking him for being the only Republican calling for impeachment.
    I could be wrong but I'm going to make a likely prediction. Amash is going to backtrack and say he didn't really mean this to be understood and perceived as it has been... He is just trying to figure out how to word this. His base is filling up his answering machine as we speak.

  12. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by ProBlue33 View Post
    Ok I did a little bit of digging around as to why, because it didn't make logical sense, but Amash has a very selfish motivation for this move.


    A review of Amash’s financial interests quickly reveals a very personal business motive. His family tool business is heavily invested in Chinese manufacturing.

    Representative Amash reports income of between $100,000 to $1,000,000/yr. for his ownership stake in Michigan Industrial Tools. Michigan Industrial Tools is the parent company, manufacturing in China, that produces Tekton Tools, Justin Amash’s Michigan family business.

    https://www.tekton.com/


    Obviously President Trump’s tariff and trade position against China is adverse to the financial interests of Justin Amash.
    And there has been issues with him saying his tools are Made in the USA and they are not.

    I just lost all respect for him, pathetic.

    Beyond that, Reddit is talking about launching a primary challenger to him because he is viewed as a total traitor now.
    I have an old half inch drive metric deep well impact socket set made by MIT , I really do not know if it was made in Grand Rapids or china . Been a good set but I would not even have bought it if I thought it was made in china . I think all of the Tekton is made in china . They should make them here but they won't because they could get more for them and the steel would be better but it would lessen the profit margin which was probably huge .
    Do something Danke

  13. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Now does this indicate that because he is President, whatever he supposedly did may have actually been within his legal powers and protections as POTUS and he is not just "any other person"?
    No, it indicates that the DoJ has a policy that says that they believe that they cannot indict the president.

    Whether something is or is not within the power of an elected official doesn't matter. If it did, there would be no such thing as corruption.

  14. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The facts don't seem to matter to the trumpcucks.
    Serious question:

    What did Trump do, specifically, to "obstruct justice"?

    Did he himself, or did he order evidence destroyed?

    Did he order people to lie under oath?

    Did he delete or erase digital evidence?

    I'm seriously asking of anybody who has read the report in depth.



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  16. #193
    This reporting is by Foxnows, a notorious fakenews outlet that hosts disgraced neocons tools like Hannity, Levin, Judith Miller etc. So should be cautious until report is confirmed by other reliable sources.
    But if confirmed as non-fakenews, this is bold move by Romney even if he's not positioning for a contigency 2020 run secretly:



    Published 2 hours ago

    Romney: Mueller report did not show obstruction, 'I don't think impeachment is the right way to go'

    By Ronn Blitzer | Fox News

    Flashback: Biden mocks Romney over Russia threat

    Former Vice President Joe Biden's attacks on Mitt Romney for his 2012 warning about Russia resurfaces.

    Soon after Rep. Justin Amash, R-Mich., went against the GOP consensus by claiming President Trump committed "impeachable conduct" in the form of obstruction of justice, another known Trump critic took the opposite position.
    Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah, acknowledged that while he has called out Trump when he's deemed it appropriate, he does not believe the Mueller report provided evidence that supports impeaching the president.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rom...ight-way-to-go






    Related

    Poll: Why Mueller did not exonerate POTUS on Obstruction Of Justice charge?


  17. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    No, it indicates that the DoJ has a policy that says that they believe that they cannot indict the president.

    Whether something is or is not within the power of an elected official doesn't matter. If it did, there would be no such thing as corruption.
    Guilty yet still no evidence. Guilt by rumor. Guilt by rumor of defending himself from a crime. And yes, the President is granted certain legal immunities in his capacity like it or not. Just as are many capacities like Police. Judges, and foreign diplomats. But first there has to be a crime anyhow, so far there is none, only rumors. And Amash admits that his aids relayed these rumors to him. Who is to say they even have a clue what the hell they are talking about?

  18. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Guilty yet still no evidence. Guilt by rumor. Guilt by rumor of defending himself from a crime.
    Who said anything about guilt? Indictments and impeachments have nothing to do with guilt.


    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    And yes, the President is granted certain legal immunities in his capacity like it or not.
    How and by what document(s)?


    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Just as are many capacities like Police. Judges, and foreign diplomats.
    Qualified immunity only protects you if you obey the law. There are laws against corruption and obstruction of justice.

    Prosecutors cannot lawfully demand or accept bribes to drop cases. Judges cannot lawfully demand or accept demand bribes to give light sentences. The president cannot lawfully demand or accept bribes to give pardons. And so on. Even though those actions are within the powers of those government officials, they cannot use their powers corruptly.


    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    But first there has to be a crime anyhow, so far there is none, only rumors. And Amash admits that his aids relayed these rumors to him. Who is to say they even have a clue what the hell they are talking about?
    You are lying. Nowhere does Amash say that.

  19. #196
    Looks like Rand and Romney back to the same place everyone always arrives at . No evidence . One thing is sure . If the dems were to win the next presidential election all the RPF libertarians should have a truckload of better crimes to talk about .
    Do something Danke

  20. #197

  21. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I think they would damage each other but they will not inflict fatal damage to each other. Its like fights in professional wrestling, sometimes blood is spilt but the goal is never to concuss/KO their opponent.
    Astute comparison. It's not like Donald has been involved in the WWE or anything.

    Oh wait... yes he has and even appointed the queen of WWE to his cabinet. Things that make ya go hmm.....

    --------------------

    Amash's tweets, according to ZH:


    Here are my principal conclusions:
    1. Attorney General Barr has deliberately misrepresented Mueller’s report.
    2. President Trump has engaged in impeachable conduct.
    3. Partisanship has eroded our system of checks and balances.
    4. Few members of Congress have read the report.
    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

    I offer these conclusions only after having read Mueller’s redacted report carefully and completely, having read or watched pertinent statements and testimony, and having discussed this matter with my staff, who thoroughly reviewed materials and provided me with further analysis.
    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

    In comparing Barr’s principal conclusions, congressional testimony, and other statements to Mueller’s report, it is clear that Barr intended to mislead the public about Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s analysis and findings.
    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

    Barr’s misrepresentations are significant but often subtle, frequently taking the form of sleight-of-hand qualifications or logical fallacies, which he hopes people will not notice.
    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

    Under our Constitution, the president “shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” While “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” is not defined, the context implies conduct that violates the public trust.
    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

    Contrary to Barr’s portrayal, Mueller’s report reveals that President Trump engaged in specific actions and a pattern of behavior that meet the threshold for impeachment.
    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

    In fact, Mueller’s report identifies multiple examples of conduct satisfying all the elements of obstruction of justice, and undoubtedly any person who is not the president of the United States would be indicted based on such evidence.
    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

    Rather than attack President Trump, Amash emphasized that the standard on impeachable "does not even require probable cause," which doesn't sound like a great excuse for impeaching someone.

    Impeachment, which is a special form of indictment, does not even require probable cause that a crime (e.g., obstruction of justice) has been committed; it simply requires a finding that an official has engaged in careless, abusive, corrupt, or otherwise dishonorable conduct.
    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

    While impeachment should be undertaken only in extraordinary circumstances, the risk we face in an environment of extreme partisanship is not that Congress will employ it as a remedy too often but rather that Congress will employ it so rarely that it cannot deter misconduct.
    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

    Our system of checks and balances relies on each branch’s jealously guarding its powers and upholding its duties under our Constitution. When loyalty to a political party or to an individual trumps loyalty to the Constitution, the Rule of Law—the foundation of liberty—crumbles.
    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

    We’ve witnessed members of Congress from both parties shift their views 180 degrees—on the importance of character, on the principles of obstruction of justice—depending on whether they’re discussing Bill Clinton or Donald Trump.
    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

    After a certain point, it started to seem like Amash's tweetstorm might have been spurred by anger at his colleagues for not bothering to have read the Mueller report.

    Few members of Congress even read Mueller’s report; their minds were made up based on partisan affiliation—and it showed, with representatives and senators from both parties issuing definitive statements on the 448-page report’s conclusions within just hours of its release.
    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

    America’s institutions depend on officials to uphold both the rules and spirit of our constitutional system even when to do so is personally inconvenient or yields a politically unfavorable outcome. Our Constitution is brilliant and awesome; it deserves a government to match it.
    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019


    Who can really argue against that? Someone may disagree with his final conclusion regarding obstruction (and only those that HAVE READ IT SHOULD HAVE A FIRM OPINION, otherwise you're only regurgitating media talking points) and whether impeachable but he's not wrong about the rest of it.


    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by ProBlue33 View Post
    If he is running, he has no chance, anybody who runs against Trump in a primary is throwing away both money and time.
    It a fools errand.
    If they couldn't beat him in 2015/2016, there is no way they have a chance now.
    Someone can run in a primary because ya never know what could happen. Donald could have a massive cheeseburger induced heart attack the day before the convention. Or something realllllly bad could surface. Or an assassination. Or a myriad of other possibilities. Is primarying an incumbent Pres probably a waste of time and money? Yes. Are there reasons to place a long shot bet that Donald may not make it to the convention? Also yes.
    Last edited by devil21; 05-19-2019 at 11:32 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  22. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Who said anything about guilt? Indictments and impeachments have nothing to do with guilt.




    How and by what document(s)?




    Qualified immunity only protects you if you obey the law. There are laws against corruption and obstruction of justice.

    Prosecutors cannot lawfully demand or accept bribes to drop cases. Judges cannot lawfully demand or accept demand bribes to give light sentences. The president cannot lawfully demand or accept bribes to give pardons. And so on. Even though those actions are within the powers of those government officials, they cannot use their powers corruptly.
    All bull$#@! distraction and you know what I say is absolutely correct.




    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    You are lying. Nowhere does Amash say that.
    Right in a tweet of his own making... And I think he is lying, He didn't read it himself. They never do, none of them. He tasked his aids as a team to do it for him.


    I offer these conclusions only after having read Mueller’s redacted report carefully and completely, having read or watched pertinent statements and testimony, and having discussed this matter with my staff, who thoroughly reviewed materials and provided me with further analysis.

    — Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...hable-conduct/

  23. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Looks like Rand and Romney back to the same place everyone always arrives at . No evidence . One thing is sure . If the dems were to win the next presidential election all the RPF libertarians should have a truckload of better crimes to talk about .
    I trust Rand more than I do Amash.



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  25. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Who here has read the Mueller report? I haven't.
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Here is a fact if found to be true in the whole of things. Defending yourself from an illegal action is not obstruction. If the warrant and investigation were illegal, everything else has absolutely no legal bearing and would be inadmissible in every court of law.
    I agree. But suppose the police get a warrant to search the lair of a thief to look for the television he allegedly stole from me. And suppose he didn't steal it, but he did steal your computer. Now, if someone obstructs the police from finding your computer in the thief's lair, is that obstruction? Even if they are looking for my television?

    Smash has read more of the Muller Report than you or I are allowed to see, and probably swore not to reveal what is in certain parts of it. And if I am going to question what Smash can and does say about these thing I cannot see for myself, I'm not going to do it because it makes somebody who claims to be a Republican look bad.

    That's just the way I am.

    Nixon did not break in to any offices in the Watergate building, to the best of my knowledge. But I believe resigning was the right thing for him to do. Do I think the same about Trump? I don't know. But I know this, and I think many people here don't. Impeachment is not removal from office. Bill Clinton was impeached. Impeachment is the airing of the facts.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-19-2019 at 11:17 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  26. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    I trust Rand more than I do Amash.
    I even trust romney if he is not selling tools out of his trunk with a US flag on them that are made in china , LOL
    Do something Danke

  27. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    Amash wants impeachment 'cause principles. Rand Paul does not want impeachment 'cause principles. Only one is correct. Choose.
    Put him on trial for the murder of thousands of Yemenis.

    Win/win.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  28. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I agree. But suppose the police get a warrant to search the lair of a thief to look for the television he allegedly stole from me. And suppose he didn't steal it, but he did steal your computer. Now, if someone obstructs the police from finding your computer in the thief's lair, is that obstruction? Even if they are looking for my television?

    Smash has read more of the Muller Report than you or I are allowed to see, and probably swore not to reveal what is in certain parts of it. And if I am going to question what Smash can and does say about these thing I cannot see for myself, I'm not going to do it because it makes somebody who claims to be a Republican look bad.

    That's just the way I am.
    If it's beyond the scope of the investigation, it doesn't matter.

    You don't get to make $#@! up, to go look into peoples houses, and find a crime.
    ESPECIALLY against political opponents.

    anyways, this is what the little weasel is basing his recommendation for impeachment on:

    "the context implies conduct that violates the public trust."

  29. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Put him on trial for the murder of thousands of Yemenis.

    Win/win.
    This would have been a 1000x better reason for impeachment but maybe Amash is OK with the president waging war without a declaration.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  30. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    All bull$#@! distraction and you know what I say is absolutely correct.
    No, you are absolutely wrong, and the fact that you have absolutely nothing to say for yourself is proof of that fact.


    The Constitution clearly states in Article I that Congress is granted certain legal immunities in the performance of their duties. If you are correct, then why does Article II not say anything about the legal protections that the President gets?

    They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.


    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Right in a tweet of his own making... And I think he is lying, He didn't read it himself. They never do, none of them. He tasked his aids as a team to do it for him.
    Now you admit that he didn't say what you said that he said. Instead, you say that he must be lying about it. Justin $#@!ing Amash, of all people, is lying about the performance of his duties?

  31. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    If it's beyond the scope of the investigation, it doesn't matter.
    And that is exactly the sort of loophole one would expect a partisan fanboi to encourage the object if his devotion to hide behind. But "the scope of the investigation" does not set parameters as rigidly as the fanbois might hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  32. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I agree. But suppose the police get a warrant to search the lair of a thief to look for the television he allegedly stole from me. And suppose he didn't steal it, but he did steal your computer. Now, if someone obstructs the police from finding your computer in the thief's lair, is that obstruction? Even if they are looking for my television?
    Constitutionally A warrant can only be issued for specific items listed on the warrant, legally there is no such thing as an "open warrant" fishing expedition. Anything else they might come across is actually inadmissible and requires a second warrant and investigation to be requested for those secondary findings. Now they don't do it this way and cheat on the constitutional laws all the time this way, but as written that is the facts of it. So... If someone stood in the way of finding the original list they would be obstructing. But if they stood in the way and nothing from the original warrant list was found then it is not, they were rightfully defending from the warrant because it was wrongfully issued and have every right to do so against that particular warrant and warrant list. Now if the warrant was illegally issued in the first place, anything and everything they find or any actions to defend from that warrant are all thrown out and inadmissible as evidence. Constitutionally there is no such thing as a legal fishing trip. There has to be specific detailed and accurate evidence they are seeking. And there has to be factually provable evidence to even get a warrant in the first place. And from what it looks like there was not.



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  34. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And that is exactly the sort of loophole one would expect a partisan fanboi to encourage the object if his devotion to hide behind. But "the scope of the investigation" does not set parameters as rigidly as the fanbois might hope.
    It's a Constitutional protection we are all granted by right. It is due process.

  35. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Anything else they might come across is actually inadmissible and requires a second warrant and investigation to be requested for those secondary findings.
    "Specific" is an interesting word. It could apply to "stolen goods", as that (though somewhat vague) does exclude drugs or illegally imported goods or bump stocks or unregistered firearms or child porn or...

    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    And from what it looks like there was not.
    Now we seem to be the ones on a fishing expedition. But at least we've begun to admit that this thing could be more complicated than it appears.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    It's a Constitutional protection we are all granted by right. It is due process.
    And it has never been as rigid as a loophole seeking fanboi might hope. Arguably, the Founders never intended it to be.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-19-2019 at 11:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

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