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Thread: Examining the cost of living between 2000 and 2019

  1. #1

    Examining the cost of living between 2000 and 2019

    Examining the cost of living between 2000 and 2019: Inflation has played a big part in shrinking the American middle class.

    Most Americans are familiar with Alice in Wonderland. The Red Queen’s race in the story highlights Alice running but remaining in the same spot. Many Americans can relate. They are working harder yet somehow feel stuck. Putting more and more energy just to stay in the same spot economically. And many are unable to keep up. The middle class is dramatically shrinking. Many in the United States understand this yet don’t know the exact reason why so they lash out at various culprits. While this is a multifaceted problem there is one issue we can pinpoint. Inflation and the culture of debt. All we need to do is look at is nearly 20 years of data and measure how the price of various goods and commodities are changing over time.

    Why the middle class has been shrinking

    Let us first talk about something that is rather obvious on the surface but is part of the root issue of our economic stagnation. First, our once robust manufacturing segment of our economy has faltered. After World War II, the U.S. was the economic engine of the world. We are no longer in that position. We are now the leader in knowledge workers but these are clustered in various large metro areas (e.g,. Bay Area, Seattle, Austin, etc.). Most of the country is simply not keeping up. And knowledge work tends to produce more outlier rewards for those in the sector – for example think of Bill Gates and the knowledge workers at Microsoft. While most use the product, you don’t need millions of people working for the company.

    Many of the higher paying jobs in the U.S. require a college degree. Now look at the below chart and we will go through various categories:



    College tuition and fees are up a staggering 163% since 2000. The overall CPI is up only 51%. This is why we now have nearly $1.5 trillion in student debt and many politicians are using this as a major platform to motivate younger voters. This is a severe drag on our economy especially for our younger workers that are trying to make their way into a solid middle-class lifestyle. And if you don’t think this is the case just look at real hourly earnings:



    Real hourly earnings started declining in the Nixon era to bottom out in the Clinton era. They have slowly crept up but they are still below the top which occurred with Nixon. Ironically this is the same time we went off the gold standard and essentially let the U.S. Dollar run wild.

    Next you will find that medical care is up 93% since 2000. Most of our baby boomers are broke and are only able to survive thanks to Social Security and Medicare. If it weren’t for these two programs millions upon millions would be on the street and eating dog food to get by. With such a large group of Americans getting into old age, the rising cost of medical care has taken a bite out of their small disposable income.

    Energy is another sector that is up dramatically. Energy is up 88% since 2000 and this is factoring the boom and bust of this sector. All Americans rely on energy for driving to work, heating their homes, and keeping the lights on.

    These are all essential items. What I find interesting is that areas that are non-essential are down relative to the CPI: apparel, recreation, and education and communication (non-college education). So while we hear people slamming on Americans for being spenders just look at these areas. Many people have cut back on non-essentials. But areas that are essential are eating up a larger share of income. Many don’t have this savings so they are using student loans to fund college and credit cards to pay bills.

    So how is inflation to blame? When you essentially “print” digital money you create a run on real world goods. Any products or goods serviced by debt are in bubble phases: think of housing (mortgages), cars (auto loans), and college (student debt). We already saw a bust in the mortgage market and we are now seeing problems with auto loans. Student debt is starting to look precarious. So part of the reason the middle class has shrunk is that we’ve allowed banking to essentially create long-term debt holders that now need to finance practically every major purchase in their lives. This is a recipe for bubbles and we’ve lived through a few already – expect more.
    http://www.mybudget360.com/examining...-middle-class/
    ''There were four million people in the American Colonies and we had Jefferson and Franklin. Now we have over 300 million and the two top guys are Trump and Biden. What can you draw from this? Darwin was wrong.'' ~ Mort Sahl



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  3. #2
    In b4 Zippy comes on duty and tells us a crappy Chinese TV costs less than a 1984 Curtis Mathes.

    Or some other Bureau of Labor Approved, cherry picked stat designed to distract us from the fact that today's dollar buys only a nickel's worth of beef (because today's dollar is worth a nickel).
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-17-2019 at 07:49 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  4. #3
    Lets see , price of a truck went to about 50K from about 20K , pound of bacon went about 1.90 to 4.00 yet wages are pretty stagnant . Electricity , natural gas up. Probably you guys are going to need to work harder , your employer might want to cut back to save money on health insurance .
    Do something Danke

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Lets see , price of a truck went to about 50K from about 20K , pound of bacon went about 1.90 to 4.00 yet wages are pretty stagnant . Electricity , natural gas up. Probably you guys are going to need to work harder , your employer might want to cut back to save money on health insurance .
    You sure natgas is up? electricity is up because they keep shutting down cheaper options.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Lets see , price of a truck went to about 50K from about 20K , pound of bacon went about 1.90 to 4.00 yet wages are pretty stagnant . Electricity , natural gas up. Probably you guys are going to need to work harder , your employer might want to cut back to save money on health insurance .
    Even worse under the skin... A pound of bacon became 12 Oz instead of 16 Oz, A three pound can of coffee became 1 1/2 pounds, etc.

  7. #6
    I still don't buy the claim that the only views getting presented here are either socialism or communism, but the OP is certainly a candidate for a post that falls within that range.

    Notice this line:
    Most of our baby boomers are broke and are only able to survive thanks to Social Security and Medicare. If it weren’t for these two programs millions upon millions would be on the street and eating dog food to get by.
    And look at the assumption that's asserted as dogma that needs no supporting evidence over and over about the middle class supposedly shrinking.

    The middle class in America isn't shrinking. It did shrink some between the 70's and 2011. But even that was mainly because of middle class people getting richer and going up into the upper class, which grew over that period.

    That graph of real hourly earnings shows that they've been increasing fairly steadily for 25 years, which the author of the article wants to downplay, focusing instead on their having gone down over the 25 year period leading up to that. They're almost at their high point now according to that graph.

    And even that underplays how much better off we really are economically. If you looked at how much time someone has to work today to buy the same things as any of those years in the past, rather than just inflation-adjusted dollar amounts, you'd find that average Americans have to work fewer hours to be able to afford more and better stuff. The rich are getting richer, and the poor are also getting richer.

    College education is an exception to that. But the author is wrong about that being necessary for getting high-paying jobs. It isn't. The fact is, due to government interference in the market, too many people are spending too many years of their lives going to college to get degrees that are not making them more productive in the workplace.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 05-17-2019 at 08:48 AM.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    yet wages are pretty stagnant
    On average, wages are not stagnant. They have gone up right along with other prices.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I still don't buy the claim that the only views getting presented here are either socialism or communism, but the OP is certainly a candidate for a post that falls within that range.

    Notice this line:


    And look at the assumption that's asserted as dogma that needs no supporting evidence over and over about the middle class supposedly shrinking.

    The middle class in America isn't shrinking. It did shrink some between the 70's and 2011. But even that was mainly because of middle class people getting richer and going up into the upper class, which grew over that period.

    That graph of real hourly earnings shows that they've been increasing fairly steadily for 25 years, which the author of the article wants to downplay, focusing instead on their having gone down over the 25 year period leading up to that. They're almost at their high point now according to that graph.

    And even that underplays how much better off we really are economically. If you looked at how much time someone has to work today to buy the same things as any of those years in the past, rather than just inflation-adjusted dollar amounts, you'd find that average Americans have to work fewer hours to be able to afford more and better stuff. The rich are getting richer, and the poor are also getting richer.

    College education is an exception to that. But the author is wrong about that being necessary for getting high-paying jobs. It isn't. The fact is, due to government interference in the market, too many people are spending too many years of their lives going to college to get degrees that are not making them more productive in the workplace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    On average, wages are not stagnant. They have gone up right along with other prices.
    Use the right account, Zippy.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    On average, wages are not stagnant. They have gone up right along with other prices.
    Not that I am ware of . For my home state median income 2005 55K , 2006 55K ,2007 56k , 2008 54k , 2009 52K , 2010 , 2011 ,2012 & 2013 50k , 2014 51k , 2015 52k ,2016 53k, 2017 54K .
    Do something Danke

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    You sure natgas is up? electricity is up because they keep shutting down cheaper options.
    Ya , from 1990 to 2004 Gas avg US yearly price was consistent staying between 1.30 to 1.85 . Only below 2 1/4 once since then I think , maybe 2015. 2012 was nearly 4 . In fact , it appears to me that Nat gas and gasoline are higher than it should be , I am basing my guess on gasoline though only on the current wholesale price . March of 2016 Nat Gas was under 2.00 , Feb. 2019 over 3.00 , but overall you are right , since 2014 it has not spiked high like it did in '01 ,'03 , 05 & '08 .
    Last edited by oyarde; 05-17-2019 at 06:02 PM.
    Do something Danke

  13. #11
    I am not complaining , personally I am living better than ever because I know how to game everything now but these numbers do not really point to improvement for others certainly.
    Do something Danke

  14. #12
    People here may not even realize it because they mostly work hard to get ahead and do what needs done but overall our economy has been fairly stagnant for a very long time and as I have predicted .I believe it will remain so until the next crash . So , enjoy, these are the fat times.
    Last edited by oyarde; 05-17-2019 at 05:58 PM.
    Do something Danke

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Not that I am ware of . For my home state median income 2005 55K , 2006 55K ,2007 56k , 2008 54k , 2009 52K , 2010 , 2011 ,2012 & 2013 50k , 2014 51k , 2015 52k ,2016 53k, 2017 54K .
    What is your source for those numbers? Every website I've found disagrees with them. Here's one that shows Indiana's median income for every year from 1990 to 2017, and it has generally risen with some dips along the way. In 2005 it was only 42k (not 55k as you say), and in 2017 it's almost 59k.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...me-in-indiana/

    It may be that you were citing median income in some constant dollar (i.e. adjusted for inflation). It looks like your numbers would probably be pretty close to the ones at the link I gave if 2016 dollars are used. But then, that would mean that your data confirmed my claim. Since wages stayed fairly constant over time when adjusted for inflation, that's the same thing as saying that wages rose right along with other prices. The slights dips and increases along the way just mean that wages and other prices aren't in perfect unison, but still close, where one year one will outpace the other and other years the other will outpace the one.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 05-18-2019 at 12:23 PM.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Use the right account, Zippy.
    I'm not Zippy. But the claims I made are true and verifiable, so anybody should be able to acknowledge them regardless of their ideology.

  17. #15
    Did the government ever report inflation above 3.5% since 2000? Required for 100% increase in prices in 19 years.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    What is your source for those numbers? Every website I've found disagrees with them. Here's one that shows Indiana's median income for every year from 1990 to 2017, and it has generally risen with some dips along the way. In 2005 it was only 42k (not 55k as you say), and in 2017 it's almost 59k.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...me-in-indiana/
    I think it was www.deptofnumbers.com/income/indiana (Department of Numbers )
    Last edited by oyarde; 05-18-2019 at 12:19 PM.
    Do something Danke



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I think it was www.deptofnumbers.com/income/indiana (Department of Numbers )
    OK, notice that those numbers are "real household income," as opposed to "nominal." There's a link there where you can switch to nominal, which shows the fairly steady increase over time. The real numbers are adjusted for inflation, meaning that when real income stays steady it's because incomes rise nearly in tandem with other prices.

    See the edit I made to my above post.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Did the government ever report inflation above 3.5% since 2000? Required for 100% increase in prices in 19 years.
    If you're talking about the overall CPI, its prices haven't gone up 100% in 19 years, but only about 50%.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    If you're talking about the overall CPI, its prices haven't gone up 100% in 19 years, but only about 50%.
    This has to be the biggest joke of this century so far.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    OK, notice that those numbers are "real household income," as opposed to "nominal." There's a link there where you can switch to nominal, which shows the fairly steady increase over time. The real numbers are adjusted for inflation, meaning that when real income stays steady it's because incomes rise nearly in tandem with other prices.

    See the edit I made to my above post.
    OK , but real income is pretty flat . I don't think it is really surprising . I think the worst part of it in the long run will be young families only real savings are all in a 401k because I imagine they are using the rest to live on . I worry about Danke having enough to look after me in my old age.
    Do something Danke

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Even worse under the skin... A pound of bacon became 12 Oz instead of 16 Oz, A three pound can of coffee became 1 1/2 pounds, etc.
    A half gallon of ice cream becomes 1.75 quarts. The remainder goes to gov cheeze.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    A half gallon of ice cream becomes 1.75 quarts. The remainder goes to gov cheeze.
    That's how we ended up with a huge surplus of government cheese then?

    https://consumerist.com/2016/05/02/t...s-a-bad-thing/

  26. #23

    Thumbs down Cheezy sanctuary nation USA - Welcome to America, have some .gov cheeze

    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    That's how we ended up with a huge surplus of government cheese then?

    https://consumerist.com/2016/05/02/t...s-a-bad-thing/
    That was 5/2/16 when Obama was president. Now they're probably giving it to the "Dream Student" political refugee illegal aliens.

    Reconquista Republicans con quesso.



    5-5-16. Never forget.
    Last edited by RonZeplin; 05-18-2019 at 04:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    That was 5/2/16 when Obama was president. Now they're probably giving it to the "Dream Student" political refugee illegal aliens.

    Reconquista Republicans con quesso.
    Nope still... Feb 1st 2019.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/gove...e-surplus.html



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I'm not Zippy. But the claims I made are true and verifiable, so anybody should be able to acknowledge them regardless of their ideology.
    You know better than to think that government numbers can be trusted, zippy.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #26

    Lightbulb How to encourage illegal aliens - free cheese & much more

    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Jimmy Carter, wealth spread, communism, facism, welfare. Illegal Alien bait. .



    Trump administration prepares to release Central American migrants 'across the entire nation'

    Last edited by RonZeplin; 05-18-2019 at 05:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  31. #27
    Due to the laws and court rulings he has no other choice, so he is dumping them in sanctuary cities to teach the Demoncrats a lesson, he is also cutting them off from as much welfare as he can and preparing to round them up and deport them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #28

    Thumbs down Illegal Alien Summit at Trump Tower

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Due to the laws and court rulings he has no other choice, so he is dumping them in sanctuary cities to teach the Demoncrats a lesson, he is also cutting them off from as much welfare as he can and preparing to round them up and deport them.
    As you well know the President has a constitutional duty to protect the States against invasion. No judge can override that and require him to provide sanctuary status and free .gov cheese & mucho other freebies. If you want open borders & to fundamentally change America via Reconquista, you'll need to get a Constitutional Amendment passed. Sorry Charlie.

    The Jeb!/Trump Bill Of Love amnesty of 2021, MIGHT create enough new socialist US citizens for Ivanka to get elected in 2024? Always thinking ahead that Donald.

    Last edited by RonZeplin; 05-18-2019 at 08:03 PM. Reason: 4
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    As you well know the President has a constitutional duty to protect the States against invasion. No judge can override that and require him to provide sanctuary status and free .gov cheese & mucho other freebies. If you want open borders & to fundamentally change America via Reconquista, you'll need to get a Constitutional Amendment passed. Sorry Charlie.

    The Jeb!/Trump Bill Of Love amnesty of 2021, MIGHT create enough new socialist US citizens for Ivanka to get elected in 2028? Always thinking ahead that Donald.

    Congress has passed laws that Trump must obey or find a way around and he must abide by court rulings to avoid impeachment.
    If he is impeached his replacement will not do what you want or even do as well as he is doing.

    I notice that you are still ignoring everything that he has done to secure the border and cut the illegals off from welfare.
    It makes me wonder if you really oppose illegal immigration or if you actually want to undermine anyone who does anything about it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Congress has passed laws that Trump must obey or find a way around and he must abide by court rulings to avoid impeachment.
    If he is impeached his replacement will not do what you want or even do as well as he is doing.

    I notice that you are still ignoring everything that he has done to secure the border and cut the illegals off from welfare.
    It makes me wonder if you really oppose illegal immigration or if you actually want to undermine anyone who does anything about it.
    He was being sarcastic.

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