View Poll Results: Tariffs are acceptable...

Voters
21. You may not vote on this poll
  • as a source of revenue.

    7 33.33%
  • as a new or increased source of revenue only in combination with lowering some other tax.

    6 28.57%
  • as a source of revenue in combination with totally abolishing individual income tax.

    9 42.86%
  • to punish or sanction another nation or entity.

    5 23.81%
  • to match tariffs imposed by another nation or entity.

    10 47.62%
  • as part of trade negotiations.

    8 38.10%
  • during negotiations with a goal of zero tariffs.

    7 33.33%
  • to protect US jobs.

    5 23.81%
  • to protect specific industries.

    5 23.81%
  • when they are flat, low and across the board without any exceptions.

    5 23.81%
  • never by the US.

    3 14.29%
  • never by anyone.

    5 23.81%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Results 1 to 28 of 28

Thread: The Tariff Poll

  1. #1

    The Tariff Poll

    This is a multi-choice poll. You can pick more than one option.

    Tariffs are acceptable...

    - as a source of revenue.
    - as a new or increased source of revenue only in combination with lowering some other tax.
    - as a source of revenue in combination with totally abolishing individual income tax.
    - to punish or sanction another nation or entity.
    - to match tariffs imposed by another nation or entity.
    - as part of trade negotiations.
    - during negotiations with a goal of zero tariffs.
    - to protect US jobs.
    - to protect specific industries.
    - when they are flat, low and across the board without any exceptions.
    - never by the US.
    - never by anyone.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 05-16-2019 at 01:54 PM.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2
    Thanks for poll!

    I voted for pretty much every option
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  4. #3
    Let's have another poll for "Taxes are acceptable...."

    Hopefully the statists are consistent.

  5. #4
    Without independence you can't have liberty and you can't have independence without the means to produce your needs.



    Aside from the direct threat of conquest there is also the fact that allowing the destruction of your economy will create millions of voters that are dependent on government for their needs while impoverishing and thereby disempowering millions more.

    Political power (and therefore liberty) flows out of gun barrels and bank accounts.


    It has been said (and seemingly forgotten) that even if you believe in open borders you can't have them while the welfare state exists and it is just as true that even if you want free trade or something as close to it as possible you can't have it while the regulatory state exists.

    Tariffs are also simply the best form of taxation and as much of the cost of the legitimate functions of government should be shifted to them as possible.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Let's have another poll for "Taxes are acceptable...."

    Hopefully the statists are consistent.
    It would be the same answers for me, and I think Ron Paul would agree with all of my answers. None of the answers are statist. I would certainly like to see the income tax lowered by itself, but if I had the choice between changing nothing and lowering the income tax and increasing tariffs to make up for it, I'll take the tariffs.


    as a new or increased source of revenue only in combination with lowering some other tax.

    The idea is that some taxes are better than others. In some cases lowering some other tax and increasing tariffs will be beneficial.


    as a source of revenue in combination with totally abolishing individual income tax.

    The income tax is one of the worst, if not the worst tax.


    during negotiations with a goal of zero tariffs.

    I want to see all tariffs be low or zero, and have real free trade, not JUST having our tariffs low while other countries have high tariffs.


    when they are flat, low and across the board without any exceptions.

    This may not be optimal, zero tariffs would be optimal.. but it is acceptable, as the poll specified.




    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Thanks for poll!

    I voted for pretty much every option
    There is poll tampering here . I tried to vote and it said I already had which is bullcrap because I am not even a registered democrat or illegal immigrant and I cannot vote twice . I was going to vote for Other but that was not even on the poll.
    Do something Danke

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    There is poll tampering here . I tried to vote and it said I already had which is bullcrap because I am not even a registered democrat or illegal immigrant and I cannot vote twice . I was going to vote for Other but that was not even on the poll.
    Probably Russia tampering with the poll. I've let the mods know. Russian poll manipulation cannot and will not be tolerated.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It would be the same answers for me, and I think Ron Paul would agree with all of my answers.
    If you answered both of the "never" options, then you're right about Ron Paul.

    The other options are all statist.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    If you answered both of the "never" options, then you're right about Ron Paul.

    The other options are all statist.
    You are so full of $#@!, you are one of the most full of $#@! people on the forum.

    Sorry, but if you replaced a 40% income tax with a 2% tariff, that is not "statist". That is anti-state. It is removing state power. A significant amount.

    If all anti-state people were like you, we would be totally $#@!ed and more likely living in a communist hell hole because they would all be complaining constantly that the measures being taken to reduce state power were actually statist.

    "Ohhh... you wanna cut the income tax in half?? Sorry an income tax is statis, I can support an income tax cut!!!"

    That is retarded. So retarded it makes me wanna throw up.
    Last edited by dannno; 05-17-2019 at 11:37 AM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Sorry, but if you replaced a 40% income tax with a 2% tariff, that is not "statist".
    That would be a good change. But it wouldn't make that tariff acceptable. The next goal would be to keep cutting that tariff up to the point of elimination.

    Saying that bad thing A is an improvement over bad thing B still doesn't make bad thing A acceptable or not bad.

    And that's what the poll was about, the circumstances under which tariffs would be acceptable, not the circumstances under which they would be less bad than something else.

    If we did put up a poll on when taxes were acceptable and you voted for an option that said that they would be acceptable if they were slightly lower than the status quo, then yes, that would make you a statist. By the same token, replacing any of the pro-tariff answers above (and let's be clear, to say that tariffs are acceptable is pro-tariff) with corresponding pro-tax answers would also be statist.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 05-17-2019 at 11:49 AM.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    That would be a good change. But it wouldn't make that tariff acceptable. The next goal would be to keep cutting that tariff up to the point of elimination.

    Saying that bad thing A is an improvement over bad thing B still doesn't make bad thing A acceptable or not bad.

    And that's what the poll was about, the circumstances under which tariffs would be acceptable, not the circumstances under which they would be less bad than something else.
    Ok, go ask Ron Paul if a 1% tariff would be an acceptable replacement for the income tax and get back to me.

    When you find out you are wrong, you can apologize.

    In the mean time, stop infecting the forum with your toxic bull$#@! and stupid word games. I'm sorry, but that post you made is complete horse $#@!.

    The poll specifically asked whether a tariff that replaces the income tax could be acceptable. Yes, it could acceptable BECAUSE it replaces the income tax and it could be very low, like 1% or 2%. AND there is no more income tax. Then, after everything settles, you can eliminate the tariff if so desired. There is nothing in the poll that says you have to keep the tariff in the longterm, it just asks whether it could be an acceptable replacement for the income tax. It absolutely could be, because it could potentially be a vast, game changing huge improvement. And people like you only discourage actively improving our lives and attaining more liberty. That is all you do, constantly. That is why you are toxic as $#@!.
    Last edited by dannno; 05-17-2019 at 11:53 AM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  14. #12
    For the record, I took the Ron Paul's position in my answer to this poll by checking both of the bottom two answers.

    The bottom answer, "never by anyone," really covers it well enough on it's own. But I thought it was necessary also to specify, "never by the US," since there are so many people who think that if some other country has tariffs then that other country having tariffs can be justification for us responding with our own tariffs. And this is never ever the case. So no matter what any other countries ever do, it's still never acceptable for the US to have tariffs, any more than any other taxes could ever be acceptable.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ok, go ask Ron Paul if a 1% tariff would be an acceptable replacement for the income tax and get back to me.
    I have no doubt that he would support eliminating the entire income tax and replacing it with a 1% tariff. So would I. So please don't mistake my answers to this poll with a claim that I would be against that.

    But that's not the question that was asked. Ron Paul would still not find that 1% tariff acceptable. He would support any future proposal to cut it. And you know that full well. I agree with him about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The poll specifically asked whether a tariff that replaces the income tax could be acceptable. Yes, it could acceptable BECAUSE it replaces the income tax and it could be very low, like 1% or 2%. AND there is no more income tax.
    The elimination of the income tax would be the acceptable part of that. The imposition of the tariff would not be. And that was the question, whether or not that tariff would be acceptable.

    I would totally support that proposal. But when the question is whether or not doing that would make any tariff acceptable, I have to say no, for the reason given above. Once we replaced the income tax with a tariff, I couldn't just say, "OK. Let's stop right there. That's just the right amount of taxation. If we cut taxes (including tariffs) any more then the government wouldn't be stealing enough."

    ETA: Also, notice, Dannno, that the excuse you're making only applies to that one single answer out of all the options. Even if I go along with your line of reasoning here, that would still leave all the other options, save for the elimination of the income tax one, and the two at the bottom, which are all blatantly statist positions, and diametrically opposed to what Ron Paul has explicitly said over and over about this major issue. I admit that can see how one could weasel out of the statist charge for the eliminate the income tax poll choice. But I can't even imagine how one would do it for the others (although if anyone here is liable to try, it's you).
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 05-17-2019 at 12:07 PM.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I have no doubt that he would support eliminating the entire income tax and replacing it with a 1% tariff. So would I. So please don't mistake my answers to this poll with a claim that I would be against that.
    Your entire life is that mistake.

    Hillary would put us in at least 2 more wars, Trump wants to take us out of 2 wars. Didn't you support Hillary?

    You don't make any sense, ever, and you make all improvements in our situation and increases in our liberty out to be a bad thing.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Let's have another poll for "Taxes are acceptable...."

    Hopefully the statists are consistent.
    Communist China is about to eat our lunch economically and one way to beat those central planning economic juggernauts is for us to be central planner too. First with targeted tariffs to protect certain industries. Essentially fighting fire with fire.

    Jokes aside, I don't think anyone is under the illusion that govt is every going to go away. So we are going to have taxes and most importantly some level of central planning. Not even the great Ron Paul would have abolished taxation.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  18. #16
    Voted for source of revenue and as tool for trade negotiations. I think the president should have the ability if only in a limited way organize the economy and also see tariffs as a fair way to collecting govt revenue. I really hate the idea of using it as punishment/sanctions to other nations. So income for govt and negotiating tool is what I can stand atm.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Your entire life is that mistake.

    Hillary would put us in at least 2 more wars, Trump wants to take us out of 2 wars. Didn't you support Hillary?

    You don't make any sense, ever, and you make all improvements in our situation and increases in our liberty out to be a bad thing.
    It's almost as if his goal is to impede liberty instead of promote it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    It seems that Trump is threatening to impose additional tariffs on Mexico "to punish or sanction another nation or entity" over the immigration and border issue. Mick Mulvaney said today that this action would be completely separate from any trade negotiations or agreements.

    What tools are there at Trump's disposal other than tariff threats to address the border situation?
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #19
    won't the cost of tariffs just go straight to consumers anyway? so who wins? it's basically another tax on us
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior_of_Freedom View Post
    won't the cost of tariffs just go straight to consumers anyway? so who wins? it's basically another tax on us
    It hurts some people more, I guess it just depends on the goal of the tarriffs. Whether they are being used for reveneue or apply pressure to certain folks. Take the Chinese tarriffs, if it encourages people to buy American instead of Chinese than it will hurt the Chinese, they will be more likely to deal with us so we will buy stuff from them. The Mexican tarriffs are all about securing the border, in this sense it could hurt the wallets of some people, but I think it will hurt the wallets of the fat cats who own the congress the most. I think if you can apply pressure to the people who own the congress they will have to make a deal with you or lose revenue/profits.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior_of_Freedom View Post
    won't the cost of tariffs just go straight to consumers anyway? so who wins? it's basically another tax on us
    That is the narrative. Mulvaney said today that is not always true, and hasn't been during the recent trade negotiations with China. Lots of things can happen. Producers might absorb the cost. Importers or exporters might absorb the cost. A retail business might absorb with the cost. A government might subsidized any of them. Likewise, government may manipulate it's currency to help their businesses, as it appears the Chinese have been doing. Any combination of all of the above may occur.

    But the general consensus in the mainstream media and from the international business lobby groups like the US Chamber of Commerce is that it will always hurt the US consumer. "US tariffs? It will hurt the US consumer!" " Chinese tariffs? It will hurt the US consumer!"
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #22

  26. #23
    Maybe a mod can fix the title since its not accurate
    Poll: Theft is acceptable...

    as a source of revenue.
    as a new or increased source of revenue only in combination with lowering some other theft.
    as a source of revenue in combination with totally abolishing individual income theft.
    to steal from another nation or entity.
    to match theft imposed by another nation or entity.
    as part of trade negotiations.
    during negotiations with a goal of zero theft.
    to protect US jobs.
    to protect specific industries.
    when theft is flat, low and across the board without any exceptions.
    never by the US.
    never by anyone.

  27. #24
    Great poll. Although I don't really like the multiple voting, that's one way Democrats get elected Anyway, voted only once, for during negotiations with a goal of zero.
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    It is a deconstructionist society. In an age of overload of information, truth of words has become irrelevant. Truth of meaning is all that is left.

    2 + 2 = 5.



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  29. #25
    When it specifically helps my business. That's what I would have voted for.
    go small or go home
    Taxation is Theft

  30. #26
    Never by anyone, always destructive both ways

    And yet, states engage in tariff wars for two reasons (both rational from their points of view):

    (a) to satisfy domestic industries which finance or otherwise support the reelection of politicians

    and/or (b) while causing harm to both countries, to cause more harm to the one than the other

    Option A is universal and the cause of tariffs in most cases.

    Option B is usually only applicable during wartime (e.g. the British blockade of Germany during the WW1).

    Ah, there is also another possible explanation:

    --the decision maker is an imbecile who lives for applause, which he thinks he'll gain by "beating" foreigners
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    When it specifically helps my business. That's what I would have voted for.
    Understandable. That is why US import businesses, global businesses, their lobby groups like the US Chamber and Koch brothers, and the MSM so vehemently oppose US tariffs for any reason.

    It is more of a traditional accusation to make against domestic producers, but as so many US corporations have exported tbeir production to other nations, they have joined the "no US tariffs" lobby. They have become import companies rather than domestic producers.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  32. #28
    Replacing the Income Tax with Tariffs cant work without getting rid of the Federal Reserve Bank. If we had no Fed, we would have ZERO Income Tax, as both were created by the 16th Amendment.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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