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Thread: Stalin More Popular Than Putin in Russia These Days

  1. #1

    Stalin More Popular Than Putin in Russia These Days

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...a-survey-shows

    They emphasize the victory in WWII and downplay the terrors where over 700,000 Russians lost their lives under his rule.

    Russia's observance of Victory Day on Thursday comes amid the rehabilitation of an unlikely figure: Joseph Stalin.

    A record 70% of Russian respondents say the late dictator of the former Soviet Union played a positive role for Russia, according to a recent poll by the independent Moscow-based Levada Center. Stalin's previous high mark for approval was 54% in 2016, The Moscow Times reported.

    A further 51% of respondents said they viewed Stalin as a person in a favorable light, the highest percentage since 2001, Levada said on its website. Stalin's approval ratings were consistent across all age groups except among the 18-24 group, who were indifferent about the former Soviet leader.

    The survey of 1,600 people who were at least 18 years of age was conducted across the country March 21-27 and released in mid-April. It had a margin of error of no greater than 3.4%.

    Stalin led the Soviet Union from the mid-1920s until his death in 1953, a period that witnessed wide-scale trauma inflicted on the country's citizens. The nation experienced rapid industrialization and collectivization of its agriculture sector, which in turn led to food shortages and the 1932-33 famine that claimed millions of lives. The famine, seen as being instigated by Stalin and which hit Ukraine especially hard to quash independence movements, is seen by many today as an act of genocide.

    Stalin also implemented "The Great Purge" in the mid-1930s to eliminate dissenting members of the Soviet Communist Party. An estimated 750,000 people died and at least 1 million others were sent to forced labor camps.


    Today's views of Stalin are largely tied to him leading the country through World War II, when an estimated 22 million to 28 million Russians died. Victory Day is Russia's annual observance marking the former Soviet Union's defeat of Nazi Germany in World War II.

    The day has grown into a major celebration of patriotism under the presidency of Vladimir Putin, who has seen his own popularity reportedly dip as Russians face increasing economic hardship. Every year parades are held across the country, highlighted by the massive procession held in the capital of Moscow, complete with tanks, military planes and thousands of soldiers.

    The rosier views of Stalin in today's Russia come amid dropping popularity ratings for Putin. The president's approval ratings are high compared to Western nations' leaders, at 66%, but down significantly from 90% in 2014. Russians have had five consecutive years of declining incomes, and the government's move last year to increase the retirement age for pensions has been unpopular.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  3. #2
    I bet you are a big Stalin fan Zip.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    I bet you are a big Stalin fan Zip.

    duuuuh....
    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

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  5. #4
    Coming to your local theater soon.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    I bet you are a big Stalin fan Zip.
    Because of my Gulag camps? When are you coming for a visit? We will be, um, "evicting" some more people very soon.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-15-2019 at 08:29 PM.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  7. #6
    Gotta know your communists people. Trotskyites hate Stalin. Russia evil! Stalin wasn’t globalist enough for them.

    Must be a talking point this week at Marxist central command. Trots on TV were attacking Stalin yesterday.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...a-survey-shows

    They emphasize the victory in WWII and downplay the terrors where over 700,000 Russians lost their lives under his rule.
    Mao is pretty popular in china too , probably both of them here as well .
    Do something Danke

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Yea, from what I've seen, Stalin in modern Russia is more a symbol of nationalism than communism.

    Stalin himself very self-consciously promoted Russian nationalism, since enthusiasm for the workers' paradise was flagging.

    ...what with all the mass-murder and cannibalism.

    and downplay the terrors where over 700,000 Russians lost their lives under his rule.
    Speaking of downplaying, that is a preposterous underestimation of the number of Stalin's victims.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 05-15-2019 at 09:48 PM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Speaking of downplaying, that is a preposterous underestimation of the number of Stalin's victims.
    LOL, what did you expect??

    Honk honk!!
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    LOL, what did you expect??

    Honk honk!!
    Yes, everyone knows that Zippy is a leftist.

    There's no need for you Trump people to constantly "out" him; it doesn't help distract from the fact that you too are leftists.

    Honk Honk!
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Yes, everyone knows that Zippy is a leftist.

    There's no need for you Trump people to constantly "out" him; it doesn't help distract from the fact that you too are leftists.

    Honk Honk!
    You are the leftist.

    Honk Honk!
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Speaking of downplaying, that is a preposterous underestimation of the number of Stalin's victims.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    LOL, what did you expect??
    In order to count properly, you have to know your purge. You see, the purges are all fun and games until they turn on you. Thus, the millions who died prior to the 700,000 was the “good” purge. The ones who died after Stalin and Trotsky has their falling out was the “terror” purge. That was what made Stalin and Russia so evil to the Trotskyites.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are the leftist.

    Honk Honk!
    Ah, yes, opposing larger government now makes one a leftist...

    What are words, like, anyway...

    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Ah, yes, opposing larger government now makes one a leftist...

    What are words, like, anyway...

    Promoting global government is promoting larger government.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Promoting global government is promoting larger government.
    I didn't mean "larger government" in the geographical sense...

    The US government isn't larger (i.e. more oppressive) than the North Korean because the US occupies more square miles.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  18. #16

    The Death of Stalin (2017) Jason Isaacs, Steve Buscemi




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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I didn't mean "larger government" in the geographical sense...

    The US government isn't larger (i.e. more oppressive) than the North Korean because the US occupies more square miles.
    Global government would be much more oppressive.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Global government would be much more oppressive.
    War, and even the existence of the military in peacetime (given the associated tax burden), is oppressive.

    The basic idea behind world government is, of course, to abolish war.

    Surely you agree that, all else being equal, that would be preferable.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    War, and even the existence of the military in peacetime (given the associated tax burden), is oppressive.

    The basic idea behind world government is, of course, to abolish war.

    Surely you agree that, all else being equal, that would be preferable.
    That can't be accomplished and even if it could global government would be much more oppressive.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That can't be accomplished and even if it could global government would be much more oppressive.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That can't be accomplished and even if it could global government would be much more oppressive.
    The modern states themselves emerged from a gaggle of smaller states, and those from a gaggle of yet smaller states, and so on.

    There's no reason to suppose that this process can't or won't continue.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    LOL

    That's R3v alright.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The modern states themselves emerged from a gaggle of smaller states, and those from a gaggle of yet smaller states, and so on.

    There's no reason to suppose that this process can't or won't continue.
    Yes there is, there is such a thing as equilibrium, states break down into smaller states for many different reasons.

    And even if you created your global state it would have to have a standing army and fight many insurgency wars to keep its grip on the world.

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The modern states themselves emerged from a gaggle of smaller states, and those from a gaggle of yet smaller states, and so on.

    There's no reason to suppose that this process can't or won't continue.
    How about the fact the surface area of planet Earth, unlike your intelligence, is limited?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And even if you created your global state it would have to have a standing army and fight many insurgency wars to keep its grip on the world.
    Modern states don't generally have this problem, despite having emerged from the union (usually involuntary) of many antagonistic smaller states.

    Time solves the problem; people stop caring about old, more local loyalties.

    ...are you expecting the South to rise again?

    I'm not.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Modern states don't generally have this problem, despite having emerged from the union (usually involuntary) of many antagonistic smaller states.

    Time solves the problem; people stop caring about old, more local loyalties.
    Tell that to the Soviet Union or Yugoslavia.
    In historical terms it takes place rather frequently and the bigger and more centralized the realm the more likely it is to succumb to the forces that cause it.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ...are you expecting the South to rise again?

    I'm not.
    It will unless the political/cultural differences in the US are settled by a civil war so bloody that one side or the other is nearly wiped out.
    The US can't go on much longer (in historical terms) as one nation.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Tell that to the Soviet Union or Yugoslavia.
    In historical terms it takes place rather frequently and the bigger and more centralized the realm the more likely it is to succumb to the forces that cause it.
    The newer the union, the more fragile; the older, the more durable. Yugoslavia, for example, only existed for a couple decades before it dissolved. The USSR (most of which was previously the Russian Empire), only existed for a a short time (decades to a few centuries, depending on area) before dissolving. Contrast this with any of the constituent parts of those collapsed states. E.G. Russia proper is quite stable; it's not going to be dissolving into Muscovy, Novgorod, etc.

    The centralizing process in geopolitics isn't linear (more like two steps forward, one step back), but it's clearly present. A look through an historical atlas makes this plain. What does this mean? It means both that world government is likely and, eventually, would be stable (i.e. not break up in civil war, etc), and that final, stable state would then be advantageous (no inter-state war, and no civil war).

    Despite you looking at me like I'm a talking dog for saying I favor world government, it's perfectly natural for people who (a) hate war, and (b) have no time for nationalism, to look forward to such a development. Mises was of the same view, as have been many other liberals over the last several centuries. This is a part of the liberal tradition which has been forgotten (or intentionally buried by persons who benefit from war and nationalism), not a new one.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The newer the union, the more fragile; the older, the more durable. Yugoslavia, for example, only existed for a couple decades before it dissolved. The USSR (most of which was previously the Russian Empire), only existed for a a short time (decades to a few centuries, depending on area) before dissolving. Contrast this with any of the constituent parts of those collapsed states. E.G. Russia proper is quite stable; it's not going to be dissolving into Muscovy, Novgorod, etc.

    The centralizing process in geopolitics isn't linear (more like two steps forward, one step back), but it's clearly present. A look through an historical atlas makes this plain. What does this mean? It means both that world government is likely and, eventually, would be stable (i.e. not break up in civil war, etc), and that final, stable state would then be advantageous (no inter-state war, and no civil war).

    Despite you looking at me like I'm a talking dog for saying I favor world government, it's perfectly natural for people who (a) hate war, and (b) have no time for nationalism, to look forward to such a development. Mises was of the same view, as have been many other liberals over the last several centuries. This is a part of the liberal tradition which has been forgotten (or intentionally buried by persons who benefit from war and nationalism), not a new one.
    The world is seeking the equilibrium point and so far that has tended to result in larger states but it will not do so forever.

    And if a global government ever was achieved it would become tyrannical beyond belief because it would have no competition.
    It would also eventually divide because factions within it would attempt to seize control of it and would be able to break off pieces easier than take the whole thing at once.

    The Roman empire is a good example of how things would go.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And if a global government ever was achieved it would become tyrannical beyond belief because it would have no competition.
    Competition is bad comrade. Choice is bad. Thus all dissent must be silenced. Stalin knew this, but he thought too small. Trotsky knew you had to eliminate competition globally.

    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    LOL
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

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