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Thread: China Retaliates on Tariffs

  1. #1

    China Retaliates on Tariffs

    Trump admits jobs not going to US but other Asian countries in tweet but also contradicts his own Treasury Secretary who admitted that US citizens and companies pay tariffs.

    Many Tariffed companies will be leaving China for Vietnam and other such countries in Asia.


    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/1186468001/

    WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump continued to insist Monday that China, not U.S. consumers, will bear the cost of the tariffs he is imposing on Chinese goods – a claim contradicted by his chief economic adviser – as China announced its own tariffs in retaliation.

    "There is no reason for the U.S. Consumer to pay the Tariffs, which take effect on China today," Trump said in a tweet. "Also, the Tariffs can be completely avoided if you by from a non-Tariffed Country, or you buy the product inside the USA (the best idea). That’s Zero Tariffs."

    But on Sunday, top White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow acknowledged that tariffs on goods from China are effectively a tax on U.S. companies that is passed onto American consumers, contradicting Trump's repeated insistence that the costs would be borne by China.

    "Fox News Sunday" host Chris Wallace played a clip in which Trump said that the U.S. "can take in $120 billion a year in tariffs, paid for mostly by China, by the way, not by us. A lot of people try to steer it in a different direction. It’s really paid – ultimately, it’s paid for by – largely by China."

    "But, Larry, that isn't true," Wallace told Kudlow. "It's not China that pays tariffs. It's the American importers, the American companies that pay what, in effect, is a tax increase and often times passes it on to U.S. consumers."

    "Fair enough," Kudlow said. "In fact, both sides will pay. Both sides will pay in these things."


    On Friday, the U.S. raised tariffs on $200 billion in Chinese goods to 25% from 10% after trade talks between the two countries stalled. Trump said in a tweet Sunday that China "broke the deal" and "tried to renegotiate."

    In response, China announced Monday that it was hiking tariffs on $60 billion in U.S. imports with duties ranging from 5% to 25% on hundreds of different products including batteries, spinach and coffee. The tariffs are set to take effect on June 1.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  3. #2
    Trump threatens China not to retaliate. This will go on for a while. Neither side can be seen as making concessions to the other side. The longer it goes on, the worse for the economy.

    Therefore, China should not retaliate-will only get worse!



    Tariffs Good For GDP! (actually economists disagree- tariffs will reduce GDP)

    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-13-2019 at 01:05 PM.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  4. #3
    The tariffs will rebuild our economy and China will hurt itself more than us with any attempt to retaliate.

    The collapse of China will save the world from a true nightmare, it's time we quit feeding the monster.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The tariffs will rebuild our economy and China will hurt itself more than us with any attempt to retaliate.

    The collapse of China will save the world from a true nightmare, it's time we quit feeding the monster.
    China will not collapse. They are better able to withstand the trade war than Trump thinks. Trade with the US is only four percent of their GDP ($500 billion out of $12.3 trillion).
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    China will not collapse. They are better able to withstand the trade war than Trump thinks. Trade with the US is only four percent of their GDP ($500 billion out of $12.3 trillion).
    LOL

    They are a house of cards and the US provided almost their entire trade surplus.

    You need to keep up with the facts:

    Charting China's Imminent Implosion

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL

    They are a house of cards and the US provided almost their entire trade surplus.

    You need to keep up with the facts:

    Charting China's Imminent Implosion
    Their trade surplus with Hong Kong alone is about as large as their surplus with us. But trade surplus is not a good measure of a weak or strong economy. A rich country can afford to buy more things from a poor one (or a poorer rest of the world). A strong currency (like the US dollar) also encourages a trade surplus. It makes your own goods expensive to other countries and imports from them cheaper. A good economy can lead to a strong currency.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Their trade surplus with Hong Kong alone is about as large as their surplus with us. But trade surplus is not a good measure of a weak or strong economy. A rich country can afford to buy more things from a poor one (or a poorer rest of the world). A strong currency (like the US dollar) also encourages a trade surplus. It makes your own goods expensive to other countries and imports from them cheaper. A good economy can lead to a strong currency.
    Hong Kong is part of China, "One Country, Two Systems".

    And China is dependent on their trade surplus to keep their Ponzi economy spinning, they also did not come by it honestly, they have much higher tariffs and their non-tariff barriers are even worse while they subsidize their own exports.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Hong Kong is part of China, "One Country, Two Systems".

    And China is dependent on their trade surplus to keep their Ponzi economy spinning, they also did not come by it honestly, they have much higher tariffs and their non-tariff barriers are even worse while they subsidize their own exports.
    According to World Bank figures: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator....mrch.wm.ar.zs

    Tariff rate, applied, weighted mean, all products (%)
    World Bank staff estimates using the World Integrated Trade Solution system, based on data from United Nations Conference on Trade and Development's Trade Analysis and Information System ( TRAINS ) database and the World Trade Organization’s ( WTO ) Integrated Data Base ( IDB ) and Consolidated Tariff Schedules ( CTS ) database.
    China 2017 Weighted Average- all goods: 3.8%
    United States 2017 Weighted Average- all goods: 1.7%
    In 1992, the mean for China was 32%. By 2009 it was down to 3.9% so they have already come way down. And China has not imploded.

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...S?locations=CN
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    According to World Bank figures: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator....mrch.wm.ar.zs







    In 1992, the mean for China was 32%. By 2009 it was down to 3.9% so they have already come way down. And China has not imploded.

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...S?locations=CN
    You are ignoring the non-tariff barriers, China is the King of non-tariff barriers, the average is also deceptive because they don't have to tariff some things to keep people from importing them.

    You are also ignoring their subsidization of their exports.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are ignoring the non-tariff barriers, China is the King of non-tariff barriers, the average is also deceptive because they don't have to tariff some things to keep people from importing them.

    You are also ignoring their subsidization of their exports.
    We've been treating them like a developing country while their economy grew to become the second world superpower and challenged US supremacy.


  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL

    They are a house of cards and the US provided almost their entire trade surplus.

    You need to keep up with the facts:

    Charting China's Imminent Implosion
    Some things (Zippy's communist-friendly posts) never change. I agree, Swordsmythe. Facts don't deter The Zipster, so hunker down for his "fact" finding slurry.

    The Chinese economy grew last year at its slowest rate since 1990, adding to the urgency for President Xi Jinping to reach a trade deal with the United States.

    U.S. 1ST NATION IN HISTORY TO INCREASE GDP BY $1T IN 1 YEAR!
    Economic boom continues despite Fed raiaing interest rates 8 times since election


    China does not include the debts of state-owned enterprises into its accounts. These businesses, which are controlled either by the central government or by local government represent a very large sector of the economy and banks lend to them in preference to private sector businesses. But there are some unofficial estimates. Like one from the Institute of International Finance (IIF) last week, which place Chinaís debt to GDP at 300%!

    Tarrifs with reciprocity = FAIR TRADE. Trump gets it. I've traded with Chinese manufacturers since '98. Their economy was planned by globalists, aided and abetted by Reagan thru O. Although it's been said that it took the Chinese a thousand years longer than civilization to discover the wheel, not to worry... MFN, WTO, currency manipulation, furious borrowing, IP theft, trade barriers, open US markets, dumping... you know, the centuries-old Rockefeller/Rothschild playbook... made China the envy of Zippy.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Trump admits jobs not going to US but other Asian countries in tweet but also contradicts his own Treasury Secretary who admitted that US citizens and companies pay tariffs.





    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/1186468001/
    Kind of odd china would be importing coffee from the US since we do not grow any , and not growing its own spinach . I always thought they were $#@!ed up .
    Last edited by oyarde; 05-13-2019 at 07:57 PM.
    Do something Danke

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    Some things (Zippy's communist-friendly posts) never change. I agree, Swordsmythe. Facts don't deter The Zipster, so hunker down for his "fact" finding slurry.

    The Chinese economy grew last year at its slowest rate since 1990, adding to the urgency for President Xi Jinping to reach a trade deal with the United States.
    Oh, no! Their GDP only grew by seven percent! How terrible! Still twice as fast as the US grew. Last time we saw that kind of growth? 1984.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-13-2019 at 08:14 PM.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  16. #14
    A year ago Trump said "Trade wars are good and easy to win." Have we won yet?



    Trump will have a trade deal by the end of March. They will be signing it at Mar A Largo he said. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1QK0SW

    Trump administration officials have said they expect the two presidents to “close” a deal at a summit in coming weeks at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida.

    The source briefed on the talks said that no dates for a summit had been determined, but that Beijing had reserved a 10-day window from around March 20 for a possible summit.
    May 1st it was going to be the following Friday.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/01/trum...xt-friday.html

    A US-China trade deal is ‘possible’ by next Friday, sources say

    The announcement of a U.S. trade deal with China is “possible” by next Friday, sources told CNBC on Wednesday.

    A U.S. delegation met with Chinese negotiators in Beijing on Wednesday as the world’s two largest economies try to hammer out details of an agreement. Chinese Vice Premier Liu He will travel to Washington for talks next week.
    Then Trump increased tariffs again and things fell apart.

    Now he says three to four weeks.

    Trump: We’ll know in three to four weeks if China trade talks are successful

    Speaking at a White House event on Monday evening, U.S. President Donald Trump offered a projection about how much longer Washington and Beijing could be locked in heated trade negotiations.

    “We’ll let you know in three or four weeks if it’s successful,” he said, according to NBC News.

    That comes after last week’s trade talks in Washington concluded without a deal and, instead, featured Trump hiking American tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese products from 10% to 25%.

    China, for its part, retaliated with its own raft of tariff hikes on a wide-ranging list of American goods.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/14/trum...uccessful.html

    If not, then what?
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-13-2019 at 08:29 PM.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    Some things (Zippy's communist-friendly posts) never change. I agree, Swordsmythe. Facts don't deter The Zipster, so hunker down for his "fact" finding slurry.

    The Chinese economy grew last year at its slowest rate since 1990, adding to the urgency for President Xi Jinping to reach a trade deal with the United States.

    U.S. 1ST NATION IN HISTORY TO INCREASE GDP BY $1T IN 1 YEAR!
    Economic boom continues despite Fed raiaing interest rates 8 times since election


    China does not include the debts of state-owned enterprises into its accounts. These businesses, which are controlled either by the central government or by local government represent a very large sector of the economy and banks lend to them in preference to private sector businesses. But there are some unofficial estimates. Like one from the Institute of International Finance (IIF) last week, which place China’s debt to GDP at 300%!

    Tarrifs with reciprocity = FAIR TRADE. Trump gets it. I've traded with Chinese manufacturers since '98. Their economy was planned by globalists, aided and abetted by Reagan thru O. Although it's been said that it took the Chinese a thousand years longer than civilization to discover the wheel, not to worry... MFN, WTO, currency manipulation, furious borrowing, IP theft, trade barriers, open US markets, dumping... you know, the centuries-old Rockefeller/Rothschild playbook... made China the envy of Zippy.
    Been a while. You need to contribute more often to RPFs.
    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Oh, no! Their GDP only grew by seven percent! How terrible! Still twice as fast as the US grew. Last time we saw that kind of growth? 1984.
    They lie about their GDP and they pump it up with debt MUCH worse than other countries or the US do.

    They also have to grow at a much higher rate to keep the Ponzi going.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    A year ago Trump said "Trade wars are good and easy to win." Have we won yet?



    Trump will have a trade deal by the end of March. They will be signing it at Mar A Largo he said. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1QK0SW



    May 1st it was going to be the following Friday.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/01/trum...xt-friday.html



    Then Trump increased tariffs again and things fell apart.

    Now he says three to four weeks.



    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/14/trum...uccessful.html

    If not, then what?
    Then China collapses sooner rather than later.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Then China collapses sooner rather than later.
    By March, perhaps?
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    By March, perhaps?
    I doubt it will be that soon.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I doubt it will be that soon.
    But soon. You promised us a long time ago it was coming soon. That was October and it was " imminent".
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    But soon. You promised us a long time ago it was coming soon. That was October and it was " imminent".
    Everything is relative but it is getting sooner all the time.
    Read the article the headline was taken from for that thread, it is talking about a generation or two, it is the issues discussed in many of the other articles that may collapse it sooner than that.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Everything is relative but it is getting sooner all the time.
    Read the article the headline was taken from for that thread, it is talking about a generation or two, it is the issues discussed in many of the other articles that may collapse it sooner than that.
    A generation or two. That is hardly "imminent" as your headline suggested. So maybe 50- 100 years?
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    A generation or two. That is hardly "imminent" as your headline suggested. So maybe 50- 100 years?
    20-40

    But as I said the issues raised in the other articles in that thread combined with the demographic problems will cause it sooner, 5-15 is not unreasonable.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
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    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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