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Thread: Here comes the Big Brother boxes to tax you by the mile

  1. #1

    Exclamation Here comes the Big Brother boxes to tax you by the mile

    Of course, it's all bull$#@!, you do not need to be tracked in "real time" to be taxed by the mile, if that was the only goal here.

    A simple read of the odometer once a year would cover that.

    This accomplishes three important goals:

    1 - "Nudges" more people away from rural and suburban living, and into the Stack-a-Prole hellholes of congested blots of urbanity, the better to be kept an eye on.

    2 - Allows a "back door" means of banning any vehicle or motorcycle older than 1996 from use on public roads.

    3 - Provides a means by which certain areas can be taxed at much higher rates and at a much more rapidly changing pace, along with whole areas now being "off limits" entirely.

    And Trump has indicated he is in favor of some new form of gas/road taxation.


    Congress Taking A Serious Look At Taxing Miles Driven

    https://www.windstream.net/news/read.../category/news

    News 4 DAYS AGO MCCLATCHY WASHINGTON BUREAU — BY DAVID LIGHTMAN MCCLATCHY WASHINGTON BUREAU

    May 06-- WASHINGTON-Take the little black box that's about the size of a fist. Plug it into the data port that in most cars sits under the dashboard. It'll record how far your car is traveling.

    Using that information as a potential tool for raising taxes to fund infrastructure is an idea that Democrats and Republicans are seriously discussing.

    In Oregon, reading the box is how the state calculates a driver's road usage, which in turn is used to figure a tax on miles traveled. This sort of tax, if expanded nationwide, could be a big way governments pay for all those infrastructure improvements that the White House and Congress are striving to fund.

    "That's where we're headed in the future," Rep. Peter DeFazio, an Oregon Democrat who chairs the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, said of the idea.

    States all over the country are experimenting with different plans, searching for a way of replacing or at least reducing reliance on the gasoline tax. DeFazio supports a nationwide pilot program, and Rep. Sam Graves of Missouri, top Republican on the committee, likes the idea of a vehicle mileage fee.

    The gasoline tax is widely seen by economic and transportation experts as a 20th-century anachronism. Vehicles are becoming more fuel efficient, if they're using gasoline at all.

    "Everyone understands the gas tax is unsustainable," said Rep. Pramila Jayapal, a Washington Democrat who testified at the committee's infrastructure hearing to urge consideration of a road user fee.

    The federal gas tax has been 18.4 cents a gallon and the diesel fuel tax has been 24.4 cents a gallon since 1993. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that revenue from the taxes will drop at a rate of about 1 percent a year over the next decade because of better vehicle fuel efficiency and slower growth in miles traveled.

    There is support at the White House and in Congress to raise the gas tax. But even nearly doubling the tax would bring in $515 billion over the next 10 years, far short of the $2 trillion President Donald Trump and Democratic congressional leaders are seeking for an infrastructure package.

    So lawmakers are looking for new, out-of-the-box ideas.

    "We're going to spend a lot of political capital to do whatever we do whether that's a gas tax or whatever," Graves told McClatchy.

    "So my thought is if we're going to spend all that political capital and then we're going to have to turn right back around and change something because the gas tax is so regressive, let's spend the capital and do something different," he said.

    Big hurdles remain. To some Republicans, the usage fee is another tax the public does not want.

    "Uniformly, they're opposed to it," said Rep. Paul Mitchell, a Michigan Republican and committee member said of his constituents.

    Rep. Ben Cline, a Virginia Republican, represents a district that includes Interstate 81, a major north-south route widely used by trucks and tourists. He called the usage fee: "intrusive." Mitchell agreed, saying "It has a Big Brother quality to it.,"

    Supporters counter that argument by saying today's electronic devices already can pinpoint where someone is and what they're doing.

    "Your car today probably has all of the sensing systems that know exactly where you are at any time," said Rep. John Garamendi, a California Democrat and committee member. "Your cell phone is doing the same thing."

    The more vexing questions involve whether such a program can work on a large scale, whether it would be unfair to people in rural areas who travel long distances, and how much revenue it could generate. DeFazio wants such concerns addressed in a nationwide pilot program.

    States have been trying out pilot programs, with some federal help. The most extensive so far has been in Oregon, where by most accounts, the state has successfully implemented its OReGO system. But it's limited to 5,000 vehicles.

    Launched in July, 2015, volunteers for the program contact private sector contractors certified by the state's transportation department. The private agencies manage drivers' accounts, provide them with the plug-in devices, and send statements each month for miles driven.

    Drivers are charged 1.7 cents a mile. Since they are still paying the state's fuels tax at the pump, the bill includes a credit of 34 cents a gallon.

    A 2017 report by the state's transportation department found relying on fuel taxes "is simply not sustainable," though it offered no estimate as to how much more could be raised with the usage tax.

    What's important at the moment, the report said, is that the OReGO system works, and "since the explosive adoption of smartphones, people are less concerned about privacy and data security."

    The Federal Highway Administration in February gave Oregon $950,000 to study ways to expand the system. The state will work with several others, including California and Washington, to share ideas that several states could also use.

    The federal government has given a total of $39.9 million in innovation grants for 22 projects in 10 states since the grant program began in fiscal 2016. Missouri got $1.78 million in February to look at "innovative strategies," including a vehicle registration fee.

    Missouri's gas tax is 17 cents a gallon, and the state also charges owners of electric vehicles $75 a year and hybrid owners $37.50 annually. The state considers the gasoline tax a true user fee, since only 3 percent of what's collected goes to administrative costs.

    But projections are that gas tax collections will shrink, so state officials are looking at alternatives such as having vehicle owners pay a graduated rate based on the fuel efficiency of the vehicle.

    Owners of an electric vehicle, which uses no gasoline or diesel fuel at all, could pay a rate set by the legislature, now estimated to be between $175 and $210, to attain parity with the revenues from traditional gasoline- and diesel- powered vehicles. A vehicle that has a miles-per-gallon rating estimated at 29 MPG or less would pay the current flat rate of around $24.

    There are potential obstacles, said Michael DeMers, director of innovative partnerships and alternative funding for the Missouri Department of Transportation.

    Is it fair to charge people a tax on miles they drove out of state? One answer to all this, said DeMers, is set up a national system to tax road usage.

    All these experiments are the way to build support for a gas tax alternative, said Jayapal. "We're not quite at the place where we've gathered all the information to say 'OK, we're ready to expand it,'" she said, "but the first stage has already happened. Now what's the second stage and then the question is, what's the final stage?"



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  3. #2
    As long as they're taxing me by the mile, and not by the kilometer, I'm happy
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  4. #3
    If you drive in reverse do you receive a credit?

  5. #4
    If this would only record miles driven it may be a fairly decent way to pay for road construction. Leaving out the question if this should be private or not. Makes sense when you take into account that electric vehicles take electricity from the grid and taxing electricity in general would also make those without cars pay.

    In any case, I prefer it above any kind of system where location comes into play, 'to reduce congestion'.
    "I am a bird"

  6. #5
    Those that do not drive little will need to also pay their fair share. They stay home and consume extra electricity, fuel oil, natural gas. The carbon footprint from these hermits in unmistakable. There needs to be a stay at home tax! Even if people are staying in a TePee with a dirt floor and no electricity. One for all! It takes a village!

  7. #6
    Road surcharge needs to be implemented on each and every drop ship order! That item did not arrive without using the roads! Raise the sales tax!

  8. #7
    So the tolls, gas tax, tag fee and whatever other tax that people pay doesn't actually pay for road use?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by aGameOfThrones View Post
    So the tolls, gas tax, tag fee and whatever other tax that people pay doesn't actually pay for road use?
    Nope... It goes towards public workers retirement pay first and if there is any left, which is never, it goes towards road work. Ca has a huge problem right now because of this.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Nope... It goes towards public workers retirement pay first and if there is any left, which is never, it goes towards road work. Ca has a huge problem right now because of this.
    Can you confirm that? Are you certain that after retirement funds it next goes to roads? Is it possible that issues deemed by those with their hands on the funds could deem things more important that roads?

    The way the government has maintained the roads is a poor model. Collect money each and every year via gas taxes, vehicle registration, city property taxes, and then not fix the roads for years. Sure they throw some asphalt in a pothole here and there but they let the roads deteriorate into a crisis situation so they can turn what should have been maintained into a crisis. Just wait until this model is used on everyones healthcare. Our city charges property tax each and every year on vehicles. Why wouldn't a property tax for vehicles not be used for something related to driving?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Can you confirm that? Are you certain that after retirement funds it next goes to roads? Is it possible that issues deemed by those with their hands on the funds could deem things more important that roads?

    The way the government has maintained the roads is a poor model. Collect money each and every year via gas taxes, vehicle registration, city property taxes, and then not fix the roads for years. Sure they throw some asphalt in a pothole here and there but they let the roads deteriorate into a crisis situation so they can turn what should have been maintained into a crisis. Just wait until this model is used on everyones healthcare. Our city charges property tax each and every year on vehicles. Why wouldn't a property tax for vehicles not be used for something related to driving?
    Give me a bit and I will try to find it for you. I have several longtime friends who work for Caltrans in Ca and this is their own biggest complaint. They have been telling me for years now that they can't get materials to repair the roads because by the time they pay the Caltrans workers retirement budget there is nothing left. I also remember not too long ago there was a stink in national news concerning misappropriation of Ca gas road taxes covering retirement budgets. And I'm going to guess it is probably the same issue in every state. Public employee salaries and retirement eats up most of the tax revenue before it gets to where it is actually supposed to go. It has been a big problem for a longtime now.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Give me a bit and I will try to find it for you. I have several longtime friends who work for Caltrans in Ca and this is their own biggest complaint. They have been telling me for years now that they can't get materials to repair the roads because by the time they pay the Caltrans workers retirement budget there is nothing left. I also remember not too long ago there was a stink in national news concerning misappropriation of Ca gas road taxes covering retirement budgets. And I'm going to guess it is probably the same issue in every state. Public employee salaries and retirement eats up most of the tax revenue before it gets to where it is actually supposed to go. It has been a big problem for a longtime now.
    Don't waste your time. I was hoping for information from a US city not a foreign entity.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Don't waste your time. I was hoping for information from a US city not a foreign entity.
    What city? I am curious myself and will try to find something.

  15. #13
    "Everyone understands the gas tax is unsustainable," said Rep. Pramila Jayapal, a Washington Democrat who testified at the committee's infrastructure hearing to urge consideration of a road user fee.
    “Unsustainable”. That would be tragic to a communist. So are they going to eliminate it?
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  16. #14
    A gas tax indirectly factors in the weight of a vehicle. Do they want to tax all vehicles equally? A Prius pays the same amount as a loaded big rig?
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  17. #15
    My neighbor and I maintain our private road without any help from Uncle Sam, Taxing Tim, or Local Larry.

    A quarter mile run costs us a few hours a year, about $30 a piece, and a sore back.

    On a related note, I'd actually volunteer to pay into a local road fund, assuming the money was managed well. Setting up a monthly auto pay to something like that, going to roads in my county.

  18. #16
    I pay Fed gas tax , State gas tax , state sales tax on those two taxes . If that is not enough to pay for road maintenance they need new managers . Fire the others . Next problem ?
    Do something Danke



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  20. #17
    Govt is no longer concerned about becoming so big it can give you anything you want, they are now at the point where they are so big they need the power to take it all away, to give to your replacement democratic voter. Damn political dissidents.
    1776 > 1984

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