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Thread: New York Times: Tax documents show Trump businesses lost more than $1 billion in a decade

  1. #1

    New York Times: Tax documents show Trump businesses lost more than $1 billion in a decade

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/07/polit...ses/index.html

    But how much was paper/ fake losses to try to reduce taxes?

    President Donald Trump's businesses reported losses of $1.17 billion from 1985 to 1994, The New York Times reported Tuesday, citing information from tax documents from those years.

    It appears Trump lost more money than nearly any other individual US taxpayer year after year, the Times reports, according to the 10 years of tax information the newspaper acquired.

    Trump ran for president branding himself as a self-made billionaire, touting his financial success, but he has been steadfast in his refusal to release his tax returns to the public, despite mounting pressure from Congress. On Monday, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin formally denied a request from the House Ways and Means Committee for Trump's last six years of tax returns, a period not covered by the documents reported by The Times on Tuesday.

    In 1990 and 1991, Trump's core business losses were more than $250 million each year -- more than double those of the closest taxpayers in those years, the Times reports.

    Trump lost so much money that he avoided paying income taxes for eight of the 10 years, according to the newspaper.

    The Times previously reported that Trump helped "his parents dodge taxes" in the 1990s, including "instances of outright fraud," and that he and his siblings helped his parents hide millions of dollars in gifts in a "sham corporation."

    Trump, starting at the age of 3, received at least $413 million in today's dollars from his father's real estate empire, the Times previously reported.

    The Times did not obtain Trump's tax returns, but someone who had legal access to the returns gave the newspaper information about their contents. The Times then matched the information to figures in the public database of IRS information on top earners, where identifying details are removed. The Times used other public documents to confirm significant findings, and used confidential Trump family tax and financial records the newspaper had previously acquired.

    Several weeks ago, a senior White House official told the Times, "The President got massive depreciation and tax shelter because of large-scale construction and subsidized developments. That is why the President has always scoffed at the tax system and said you need to change the tax laws. You can make a large income and not have to pay large amount of taxes."

    CNN has reached out to the White House for comment on the Times report.

    On Saturday, Charles J. Harder, a lawyer for the President, told the Times that the tax information the newspaper acquired was "demonstrably false" and that the Times' statements "about the President's tax returns and business from 30 years ago are highly inaccurate." He didn't cite any specific errors, according to the newspaper.

    On Tuesday, Harder told the Times, "IRS transcripts, particularly before the days of electronic filing, are notoriously inaccurate" and "would not be able to provide a reasonable picture of any taxpayer's return."
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  3. #2
    Another nothing burger:




    Every year from 1985 through 1994, according to leaked tax returns obtained by The New York Times, Donald J. Trump reported a negative adjusted gross income on his tax returns. That number grew as new losses were combined with those from prior years. The New York Times previously found that Mr. Trump declared an adjusted gross income in 1995 of negative $915.7 million.

    Click here to view the original image of 973x699px.

    The figures, according to the Times, show that the losses contradict the image that Trump promoted of himself as an adept and successful New York real estate developer.
    Or do they show an adept real estate developer following the tax law's depreciation guidelines to minimize his tax liabilities like every good shepherd of capital should?
    “I love depreciation,” Mr. Trump said during a presidential debate in 2016.
    As NYT openly admits:
    Some fraction of that ocean of red ink represented depreciation on Mr. Trump’s real estate. One of the most valuable special benefits in the tax code, depreciation lets owners of commercial real estate write down the cost of their buildings.
    The Times still gloats:
    Over all, Mr. Trump lost so much money that he was able to avoid paying income taxes for eight of the 10 years. It is not known whether the I.R.S. later required changes after audits.
    The newly-leaked documents, reportedly confirm the details that were leaked in October 2018, where the NYT accused President Trump of participating in "questionable" and "dubious" tax strategies "including instances of outright fraud" that greatly increased the fortune he received from his parents and allowed him to accrue millions of dollars in additional wealth from his father's real estate empire "much of it through tax dodges in the 1990s."
    As one of the authors, NYT reporter Susanne Craig explained at the time, she and Russ Buettner, David Barstow "got our hands on a massive trove of confidential docs - including 200 tax returns - from Fred Trump’s empire. We found Donald Trump received hundreds of millions from his dad, some of it via fraudulent tax schemes."
    But, as NYT reports, several weeks ago, a senior official issued a statement saying:
    “The president got massive depreciation and tax shelter because of large-scale construction and subsidized developments. That is why the president has always scoffed at the tax system and said you need to change the tax laws. You can make a large income and not have to pay large amount of taxes.”
    On Saturday, after further inquiries from The Times, a lawyer for the president, Charles J. Harder, wrote that the tax information was “demonstrably false,” and that the paper’s statements “about the president’s tax returns and business from 30 years ago are highly inaccurate.”
    He cited no specific errors, but on Tuesday added that “I.R.S. transcripts, particularly before the days of electronic filing, are notoriously inaccurate” and “would not be able to provide a reasonable picture of any taxpayer’s return.”
    The Times then dangles this open-ended accusatory paragraph:
    The new tax information does not answer questions raised by House Democrats in their pursuit of the last six years of Mr. Trump’s tax returns — about his recent business dealings and possible foreign sources of financing and influence. Nor does it offer a fundamentally new narrative of his picaresque career.
    And the biggest question, of course is simple - was it illegal?

    No!

    As the NYT itself admitted after receiving Trump's 1995 tax return form's front-page in October 2016, there was nothing illegal about using such a manoeuvre:

    The world's rich take advantage of NOL tax planning all the time, and in fact acquiring corporations for their NOL benefit has long been a strategy in corporate America designed to minimize Federal and State tax outflows.
    The tax experts consulted by The Times said nothing in the 1995 documents suggested any wrongdoing by Mr. Trump, even if the extraordinary size of the loss he declared would have probably attracted extra scrutiny from I.R.S. examiners.
    “The I.R.S., when they see a negative $916 million, that has to pop out,” Mr. Rosenfeld said.

    So why is it a big deal? To make him seem like he avoids taxes? Well, if any other American could do so legally, wouldn't they?
    Finally, even the NYTimes admits the ten years of tax returns cover a period of dramatic recession, stock market crash, and real estate collapse, so, as one Twitter wit suggested (@pharaohfire):
    "Trump only lost 1 Billion in the worst Real Estate recession in US history outside the Great Depression. To me that’s #winning"
    At his nadir, in the post-recession autumn of 1991, Mr. Trump testified before a congressional task force, calling for changes in the tax code to benefit his industry.
    “The real estate business — we’re in an absolute depression,” Mr. Trump told the lawmakers, adding:
    “I see no sign of any kind of upturn at all. There is no incentive to invest. Everyone is doing badly, everyone.”
    “90% of all millionaires become so through owning real estate. More money has been made in real estate than in all industrial investments combined. The wise young man or wage earner of today invests his money in real estate.” -Andrew Carnegie

    Click here to view the original image of 979x525px.

    And one last point for your consideration:


    • AMZN market cap: $945BN
    • Taxes paid in 2018: negative $129MM


    While The Times did not obtain the president’s actual tax returns, it received the information contained in the returns from someone who had legal access to it.


    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...85-1994-decade
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3


    Trump Taj Mahal. Speaking of which, (all his other casinos also went bankrupt).

    https://www.npr.org/2016/10/08/49716...ons-of-dollars

    Trump Taj Mahal In Alantic City To Close Due To Loss Of Millions Of Dollars

    SCOTT SIMON, HOST:

    Donald Trump doesn't run casinos in Atlantic City anymore, but one that still bears his name is expected to shut down Monday morning. The Trump Taj Mahal is losing millions of dollars a month, and the new owner, Carl Icahn, says that and a labor strike force him to close the doors. NPR's Jeff Brady reports.

    JEFF BRADY, BYLINE: When the Trump Taj Mahal opened in 1990, it was a big deal on some TV shows.

    (SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

    UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Donald Trump gave Michael Jackson a personal tour of his $1.2 billion extravaganza.

    BRADY: The Donald, as he was called, was all over TV, talking up his newest venture, which he billed as the biggest, most expensive casino ever.

    (SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

    DONALD TRUMP: We had people playing so hard and so fast, and we had - couldn't have - you couldn't count the money.

    BRADY: It looked like Donald Trump was on top of the world, but really he was sitting on a huge pile of debt.

    ROGER GROS: He was really overextended by that point. Even before the property opened, it was pretty much doomed.

    BRADY: Roger Gros is the publisher of Global Gaming Business magazine. He says for the Taj Mahal to succeed, gamblers would have had to lose a million dollars a day there, and that was unheard of in Atlantic City at the time. Trump filed a prepackaged bankruptcy the next year, giving up half his ownership stake.

    GROS: And then three bankruptcies later, he had completely exhausted all of his equity and really just had his name on the side of the building, had no responsibility for running it.

    BRADY: That's when others took over managing the Taj Mahal. They didn't fare much better.
    more at link.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-07-2019 at 07:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  5. #4
    Why would anybody here be upset that Trump tries to pay less taxes?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Why would anybody here be upset that Trump tries to pay less taxes?
    Or that he is putting money back into the economy instead of sitting on it?

  7. #6
    I know we aren't supposed to dox people, but are you Rosie O'Donnell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/07/polit...ses/index.html

    But how much was paper/ fake losses to try to reduce taxes?

  8. #7
    The whole point of going into real estate is to generate losses and wipe out other income. Everyone knows this, but NYT apparently.

    I don't get it. First he's guilty of tax evasion. Now he's guilty of not ever making any money. Yet somehow, he has billions of dollars and has never been in trouble with the IRS.

    Just another conspiracy theory from your favorite racist, anti-Semitic, warmongering, election meddling NYT.

  9. #8
    I doubt this story is anything major. But Trump isn't Warren Buffett or Charles Koch. He isn't a good decision maker and investor. He is primarily a salesman and a decent builder who inherited a a bunch of money and was able to use a ton of leverage to give the illusion of being more successful than he is.

    The flip side is Trump isn't the loser that his critics make him out to be. He is still pretty smart.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    I doubt this story is anything major. But Trump isn't Warren Buffett or Charles Koch. He isn't a good decision maker and investor. He is primarily a salesman and a decent builder who inherited a a bunch of money and was able to use a ton of leverage to give the illusion of being more successful than he is.

    The flip side is Trump isn't the loser that his critics make him out to be. He is still pretty smart.
    Using leverage to give the illusion of success is done all over wall street, look no further than Ken Griffin.

    Buffett benefitted from a massive head start over anyone, perfecting value investing. Then, he moved on to PE and corporate business when value/factor investing got saturated. I can tell you right now Buffett has had more than his fair share of blowups, particularly in option trading. No newspaper is ever going to talk about his trading businesses that went bust; after all, he owns all of them.

    As you said, Trump is no idiot. His casino blowups were the best thing that ever happened to him. It forced some skin in the game with him and his risk taking improved dramatically.
    Last edited by kona; 05-07-2019 at 10:19 PM.

  12. #10


    Last edited by kona; 05-08-2019 at 12:30 PM.

  13. #11
    Original Sin is the belief that sin, with all its accompanying miseries, entered human history in the Garden of Eden. When addressing the story that reporters for the anti-Trump New York Times were leaked to, and these reporters subsequently released 10 years of supposedly confidential federal income tax returns of the president, from more than 20 years before Donald Trump was even elected, one should note the “original sin” of this story.
    It is the passage of the 16th Amendment in 1913, which authorized Congress to enact a federal income tax. While all but anarchists understand that government, at all levels, needs some source of revenue to exercise its legitimate powers, the federal income tax has played a huge role in increasing the power of that federal government at the expense of the state governments. That is because the feds, with this large source of revenue obtained via a federal tax on the incomes of its citizens, can essentially bully states into adopting its policies by threatening to “withhold federal funds.”
    And with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) charged with collecting these taxes, a huge door has been opened for the federal government to intrude on the privacy of millions of its own citizens. With the draconian penalties associated with the enforcement of federal income tax laws, the IRS can be used as a potent weapon in the political arena.

    In the past, this political use of the IRS has been by presidents and their allies against the political opposition. Now, with the Deep State’s usurpation of the authority of the duly-elected president of the United States, the IRS is actually being used against President Trump.
    These opponents of Trump — in the media and within the Democratic Party — have been calling for a release of Trump’s tax returns since even before his 2016 election. During the campaign, the media and the Democrats (largely the same thing) argued that it is an established precedent that presidential candidates release several years of income tax returns. It should be noted that it is not a law for candidates to release any of their legally confidential tax returns.
    Certainly, no candidate before Trump has ever been expected to release tax returns going back more than 30 years.
    Now, somehow, the New York Times has gotten hold of tax numbers for Trump’s returns for the years 1985-1994. While the Times did not (so far as we know) obtain Trump’s actual returns, they did manage to come into possession of printouts of official IRS tax transcripts taken off the 1040 tax form — by someone who had legal access to them, and chose to leak them to the media.
    Much of the media and political response to the criminal act of delivering private tax information to a major American newspaper focused on what the numbers revealed — Trump did not pay any taxes during a time that he lost in excess of one billion dollars. That is not too surprising — people ordinarily pay income taxes when they make money, not when they lose money.
    The years in which Trump lost so much money involved the years in which federal tax law changed, making free-wheeling real estate investments like Trump was prone to do much less lucrative. For his part, Trump’s lawyer, Charles Harder, said the information was “demonstrably false,” and “highly inaccurate.”
    The information, if accurate, reveals that Trump lost money on various other investments, as well, including the Eastern Airlines shuttle ($365 million). With such heavy financial reverses, it is not surprising that Trump paid no federal income taxes for eight of the 10 years covered in the summaries.
    But the larger question is just how did the Times obtain this information? Section 6103 of the Internal Revenue Code makes it a felony for current and former federal (and even state and local) officials to disclose tax information on a taxpayer to anyone without authorization — even to other government officials.
    Just because someone dislikes Trump or his policies, or both, is not justification to break the law and disseminate any citizen’s private income tax information — even if that citizen lives in the White House. Some, of course, argue that Trump should not care if his private tax information is released unless he has “something to hide.” Really? So, these Trump-haters are willing to throw out hundreds of years of our legal protections just to “get” Trump? If the standard is that we should open our private papers to anyone, or otherwise we have “something to hide,” then what have we become?
    This use of the IRS to go after political opponents is nothing new. Under the Obama administration, IRS official Lois Lerner was accused of going after dozens of conservative-leaning organizations, including the Tri-Cities Tea Party based in Washington State — by delaying their tax-exempt status, all as a result of Lerner and her IRS bureaucrats not liking their politics. Instead of bringing the hammer down on this abuse, President Barack Obama declared there was “not a smidgeon of corruption” at the IRS.
    It did not start with Obama, either. According to Victor Lasky, in his book It Didn’t Start With Watergate, President John Kennedy somehow knew exactly how much in income taxes had been paid by tycoons such as J. Paul Getty and H.L. Hunt. Also, while Kennedy was president, a list of “right-wing” organizations was compiled for possible harassment by the IRS, according to Lasky. Groups targeted included The John Birch Society, Dr. Fred Schwartz’s Christian Anti-Communist League, and H.L. Hunt’s “Life Lines.” Not surprisingly, audits soon followed as President Kennedy himself said that federal government should make sure that tax-exempt groups needed to be scrutinized. Senator Maurine Neuberger demanded the cancellation of the tax-exempt status of conservative groups, saying, “It is painfully clear that the tax service has not done the job Congress gave it, to rout out the propagandists.”
    This vividly illustrates that the use of the IRS to defend the Left did not begin with attacks upon President Trump. During the Watergate scandal, confidential tax information was even leaked to the press on supporters of President Richard Nixon, such as John Wayne, Sammy Davis, Jr., Frank Sinatra, Jerry Lewis, Richard Boone, and Ronald Reagan.
    Again, it may be the use of the federal income tax laws for the advantage of the Left (regardless of who resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue) is just too tempting, just as that fruit in the Garden of Eden proved too tempting to Adam and Eve. We can decry the abuse of the IRS, but as long as the 16th Amendment remains, such abuse is likely to continue. But arrests and prosecution would be justified, and welcome.


    https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...ax-revelations
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/07/polit...ses/index.html

    But how much was paper/ fake losses to try to reduce taxes?
    The more the merrier.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Original Sin is the belief that sin, with all its accompanying miseries, entered human history in the Garden of Eden. When addressing the story that reporters for the anti-Trump New York Times were leaked to, and these reporters subsequently released 10 years of supposedly confidential federal income tax returns of the president, from more than 20 years before Donald Trump was even elected, one should note the “original sin” of this story.
    It is the passage of the 16th Amendment in 1913, which authorized Congress to enact a federal income tax. While all but anarchists understand that government, at all levels, needs some source of revenue to exercise its legitimate powers, the federal income tax has played a huge role in increasing the power of that federal government at the expense of the state governments. That is because the feds, with this large source of revenue obtained via a federal tax on the incomes of its citizens, can essentially bully states into adopting its policies by threatening to “withhold federal funds.”
    And with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) charged with collecting these taxes, a huge door has been opened for the federal government to intrude on the privacy of millions of its own citizens. With the draconian penalties associated with the enforcement of federal income tax laws, the IRS can be used as a potent weapon in the political arena.

    In the past, this political use of the IRS has been by presidents and their allies against the political opposition. Now, with the Deep State’s usurpation of the authority of the duly-elected president of the United States, the IRS is actually being used against President Trump.
    These opponents of Trump — in the media and within the Democratic Party — have been calling for a release of Trump’s tax returns since even before his 2016 election. During the campaign, the media and the Democrats (largely the same thing) argued that it is an established precedent that presidential candidates release several years of income tax returns. It should be noted that it is not a law for candidates to release any of their legally confidential tax returns.
    Certainly, no candidate before Trump has ever been expected to release tax returns going back more than 30 years.
    Now, somehow, the New York Times has gotten hold of tax numbers for Trump’s returns for the years 1985-1994. While the Times did not (so far as we know) obtain Trump’s actual returns, they did manage to come into possession of printouts of official IRS tax transcripts taken off the 1040 tax form — by someone who had legal access to them, and chose to leak them to the media.
    Much of the media and political response to the criminal act of delivering private tax information to a major American newspaper focused on what the numbers revealed — Trump did not pay any taxes during a time that he lost in excess of one billion dollars. That is not too surprising — people ordinarily pay income taxes when they make money, not when they lose money.
    The years in which Trump lost so much money involved the years in which federal tax law changed, making free-wheeling real estate investments like Trump was prone to do much less lucrative. For his part, Trump’s lawyer, Charles Harder, said the information was “demonstrably false,” and “highly inaccurate.”
    The information, if accurate, reveals that Trump lost money on various other investments, as well, including the Eastern Airlines shuttle ($365 million). With such heavy financial reverses, it is not surprising that Trump paid no federal income taxes for eight of the 10 years covered in the summaries.
    But the larger question is just how did the Times obtain this information? Section 6103 of the Internal Revenue Code makes it a felony for current and former federal (and even state and local) officials to disclose tax information on a taxpayer to anyone without authorization — even to other government officials.
    Just because someone dislikes Trump or his policies, or both, is not justification to break the law and disseminate any citizen’s private income tax information — even if that citizen lives in the White House. Some, of course, argue that Trump should not care if his private tax information is released unless he has “something to hide.” Really? So, these Trump-haters are willing to throw out hundreds of years of our legal protections just to “get” Trump? If the standard is that we should open our private papers to anyone, or otherwise we have “something to hide,” then what have we become?
    This use of the IRS to go after political opponents is nothing new. Under the Obama administration, IRS official Lois Lerner was accused of going after dozens of conservative-leaning organizations, including the Tri-Cities Tea Party based in Washington State — by delaying their tax-exempt status, all as a result of Lerner and her IRS bureaucrats not liking their politics. Instead of bringing the hammer down on this abuse, President Barack Obama declared there was “not a smidgeon of corruption” at the IRS.
    It did not start with Obama, either. According to Victor Lasky, in his book It Didn’t Start With Watergate, President John Kennedy somehow knew exactly how much in income taxes had been paid by tycoons such as J. Paul Getty and H.L. Hunt. Also, while Kennedy was president, a list of “right-wing” organizations was compiled for possible harassment by the IRS, according to Lasky. Groups targeted included The John Birch Society, Dr. Fred Schwartz’s Christian Anti-Communist League, and H.L. Hunt’s “Life Lines.” Not surprisingly, audits soon followed as President Kennedy himself said that federal government should make sure that tax-exempt groups needed to be scrutinized. Senator Maurine Neuberger demanded the cancellation of the tax-exempt status of conservative groups, saying, “It is painfully clear that the tax service has not done the job Congress gave it, to rout out the propagandists.”
    This vividly illustrates that the use of the IRS to defend the Left did not begin with attacks upon President Trump. During the Watergate scandal, confidential tax information was even leaked to the press on supporters of President Richard Nixon, such as John Wayne, Sammy Davis, Jr., Frank Sinatra, Jerry Lewis, Richard Boone, and Ronald Reagan.
    Again, it may be the use of the federal income tax laws for the advantage of the Left (regardless of who resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue) is just too tempting, just as that fruit in the Garden of Eden proved too tempting to Adam and Eve. We can decry the abuse of the IRS, but as long as the 16th Amendment remains, such abuse is likely to continue. But arrests and prosecution would be justified, and welcome.


    https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...ax-revelations
    Just got a call from a donor who is offering $25,000 CASH to any info that leads to the arrest and prosecution to the IRS agent who ILLEGALLY leaked Trump’s tax info
    This is an attack on the rule of law and basic ethics
    We must hold our OWN GOVERNMENT accountable
    RT!
    — Charlie Kirk (@charliekirk11) May 8, 2019
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Real estate developers in the 1980’s & 1990’s, more than 30 years ago, were entitled to massive write offs and depreciation which would, if one was actively building, show losses and tax losses in almost all cases. Much was non monetary. Sometimes considered “tax shelter,” ……
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 8, 2019
    ….you would get it by building, or even buying. You always wanted to show losses for tax purposes….almost all real estate developers did – and often re-negotiate with banks, it was sport. Additionally, the very old information put out is a highly inaccurate Fake News hit job!
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 8, 2019
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    https://twitter.com/AriFleischer/sta...35605673512962

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Homeless man had $8 billion more than Trump did? Ivanka tells the story:

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  20. #17
    Zippy wasn't alive in 1986 and doesn't have the foggiest idea what happened to real estate in the late 80s early 90s. Real Estate crashed and burned due to the 1986 tax reform act. It is a testament to Trump that he was able to survive and come back stronger than ever.


    Destroying real estate through the tax code. (Tax Reform Act of 1986)


    http://crab.rutgers.edu/~mchugh/taxe...%201986%29.htm

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by William R View Post
    Zippy wasn't alive in 1986 and doesn't have the foggiest idea what happened to real estate in the late 80s early 90s. Real Estate crashed and burned due to the 1986 tax reform act. It is a testament to Trump that he was able to survive and come back stronger than ever.


    Destroying real estate through the tax code. (Tax Reform Act of 1986)


    http://crab.rutgers.edu/~mchugh/taxe...%201986%29.htm
    He uses debt and was highly leveraged- so he lost more than some. Nobody would lend him money anymore. Deutche Bank is one of the only ones which did. As for those buildings which currently have his name on them- he doesn't actually own many of them now. He does license them to use his name though. After his election, some decided to take the name off the building.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  22. #19
    He lost money because the real estate market crashed due to bad tax law passed by congress.

  23. #20
    @Zippyjuan, this is just a stupid attack anyway, it wouldn't matter if Trump was dirt poor if his policies are better than the other candidates and they are.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Another nothing burger:





    Looks like another hoax-burger like the 'obstruction of justice' hoax burger that Dems/Comey and team are trying to serve.

  25. #22
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2019-05-12 at 11.09.25 AM.png 
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    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  26. #23

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    LOL
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Weren't the Clinton's been purportedly broke upon leaving the White House?

    Trump solution to losses = take advantage of the law, regroup, start over, make more money.

    Clinton't solution to losses = Charity scam, Misuse of political position with nefarious intent.
    Last edited by Schifference; 05-17-2019 at 04:51 AM.

  30. #26
    Just so everyone is clear , there is nothing legal about any of the information posted by the times . It is just typical leftist drival to try and use the IRS to remove people they oppose for whatever reason . They have nothing to offer , never will so this is what you get by the existence of leftists .
    Do something Danke

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/07/polit...ses/index.html

    But how much was paper/ fake losses to try to reduce taxes?
    It don't matter Zippy because at least The Red man ain't Hillary.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by William R View Post
    Zippy wasn't alive in 1986....

    Zip is pushing 60 years old.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members



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