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Thread: Thomas Massie on the Venezuela Crisis

  1. #1

    Thomas Massie on the Venezuela Crisis

    On May 1, 2019, Thomas Massie issued a proclamation on Twitter declaring that any military action in Venezuela must be conducted in a constitutional manner.
    Ever since Venezuelan president Interim President Juan Guaidó’s attempted uprising on April 30th, 2019, there has been significant chatter about a potential military intervention in the country.
    In an interview with Fox Business, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo did not rule out a military option to deal with the Venezuelan crisis.
    Liberty-minded Representative Thomas Massie commented on the Venezuelan crisis. The Kentucky Congressman stated:


    The violence in Venezuela is appalling. I hope both sides can resolve their differences peacefully. However, if the American people support engaging in military action in the region, then the Constitution requires proper congressional approval first.
    Massie added:
    That is why I’m an original cosponsor (the only Republican) of H.R. 1004, a bill that would require congressional authorization for any military action in Venezuela. You can read H.R. 1004 here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1004?q={%22search%22:[%22H.R.+1004%22]}&r=2&s=1


    More at: https://bigleaguepolitics.com/thomas...ezuela-crisis/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    On May 1, 2019, Thomas Massie issued a proclamation on Twitter declaring that any military action in Venezuela must be conducted in a constitutional manner.
    Ever since Venezuelan president Interim President Juan Guaidó’s attempted uprising on April 30th, 2019, there has been significant chatter about a potential military intervention in the country.
    In an interview with Fox Business, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo did not rule out a military option to deal with the Venezuelan crisis.
    Liberty-minded Representative Thomas Massie commented on the Venezuelan crisis. The Kentucky Congressman stated:


    The violence in Venezuela is appalling. I hope both sides can resolve their differences peacefully. However, if the American people support engaging in military action in the region, then the Constitution requires proper congressional approval first.
    Massie added:
    That is why I’m an original cosponsor (the only Republican) of H.R. 1004, a bill that would require congressional authorization for any military action in Venezuela. You can read H.R. 1004 here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1004?q={%22search%22:[%22H.R.+1004%22]}&r=2&s=1


    More at: https://bigleaguepolitics.com/thomas...ezuela-crisis/
    This is a republic in nutshell. You wanna hold an innocent woman down and rape then kill her? take their guns? violate their freedom of speech? kidnap and torture them? etc etc well just do it in a constitutional way and you are fine. It doesn't even matter that you are not supposed to violate someone's sovereignty who didn't attack you. Just go through the constitutional method and any sin is permissible.

    Btw, this is the best we can get.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  4. #3
    Summary: H.R.1004 — 116th Congress (2019-2020)

    There is one summary for H.R.1004. Bill summaries are authored by CRS.

    Shown Here:

    Introduced in House (02/06/2019)


    Prohibiting Unauthorized Military Action in Venezuela Act

    This bill prohibits funds made available to federal departments or agencies from being used to introduce the Armed Forces of the United States into hostilities with Venezuela, except pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) a specific statutory authorization that meets the requirements of the War Powers Resolution and is enacted after the enactment of this bill, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States or the Armed Forces.


    The correct link for the bill:
    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...ouse-bill/1004
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  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    This is a republic in nutshell. You wanna hold an innocent woman down and rape then kill her? take their guns? violate their freedom of speech? kidnap and torture them? etc etc well just do it in a constitutional way and you are fine. It doesn't even matter that you are not supposed to violate someone's sovereignty who didn't attack you. Just go through the constitutional method and any sin is permissible.

    Btw, this is the best we can get.
    What would you suggest?
    An absolute ban on declaring war?
    That won't work out well, every other country will take advantage of you in countless ways.

    We can try to structure government in ways that are advantageous to liberty and peace but in the end government is composed of people and people will have to make decisions like whether to declare war or not.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    This is a republic in nutshell. You wanna hold an innocent woman down and rape then kill her? take their guns? violate their freedom of speech? kidnap and torture them? etc etc well just do it in a constitutional way and you are fine. It doesn't even matter that you are not supposed to violate someone's sovereignty who didn't attack you. Just go through the constitutional method and any sin is permissible.

    Btw, this is the best we can get.
    Tell us about the system that is better...
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Tell us about the system that is better...
    What's wrong with this system? We get to bomb a new country every 2-3 years.

    It's great just how it is.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What would you suggest?
    An absolute ban on declaring war?
    That won't work out well, every other country will take advantage of you in countless ways.

    We can try to structure government in ways that are advantageous to liberty and peace but in the end government is composed of people and people will have to make decisions like whether to declare war or not.
    My suggestion would be a system where the govt is not given the opportunity to attack innocent people and countries who are minding their own business. But I am guessing that would be a pipe dream even for a democratic republic. But Massie is essentially calling for mob rule, he wants the people through their reps to debate the merit of war in Venezuela and after that, take a vote where the winner gets to decide. No protection whatsoever offered by the republic would spare then once the majority(if neocons) makes their decision for war.

    The problem with democracy is people vote, the problem with a republic is people vote
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  9. #8
    The Senate version seems unconstitutional and unreasonable IMO, total prohibition of President's powers as CIC with regards to Venezuela.

    Sponsor: Sen. Merkley, Jeff [D-OR] (Introduced 02/28/2019)

    Cosponsor
    Date Cosponsored
    Sen. Sanders, Bernard [I-VT] 03/25/2019
    Sen. Coons, Christopher A. [D-DE] 04/01/2019


    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...-resolution/11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump is not ideal but he is the least of all possible goods
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    My suggestion would be a system where the govt is not given the opportunity to attack innocent people and countries who are minding their own business.
    How?

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    But I am guessing that would be a pipe dream even for a democratic republic.
    It is unless you can come up with a system and not just a desired result.



    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    But Massie is essentially calling for mob rule, he wants the people through their reps to debate the merit of war in Venezuela and after that, take a vote where the winner gets to decide. No protection whatsoever offered by the republic would spare then once the majority(if neocons) makes their decision for war.
    Massie is trying to throw any speedbump or roadblock he can in the way of war.


    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    The problem with democracy is people vote, the problem with a republic is people vote
    And the problem with any other system is that they don't get to vote.


    People are the problem whether it is the voting public or a ruling oligarchy or a monarch, since we can't eliminate people from the equation there will always be a problem that we must struggle against.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Tell us about the system that is better...
    A system that operates under the just war theory. But like I said, that would be too much to ask for. Imagine if I told you that there is a country where the govt routinely rapes and kills their women. But the country doesn't just do it in an uncivilized manner, in this imaginary country, they have a body where representatives voted by the people get to vote on when these women are to be raped and killed.

    I come around and complain how this process is immoral and wrong and then some supporters in that society asks me if I have a better plan. See it doesn't matter if I have a better process or not, wrong is just wrong. There shouldn't be an avenue open for these people to rape a violate any innocent woman.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    A system that operates under the just war theory. But like I said, that would be too much to ask for. Imagine if I told you that there is a country where the govt routinely rapes and kills their women. But the country doesn't just do it in an uncivilized manner, in this imaginary country, they have a body where representatives voted by the people get to vote on when these women are to be raped and killed.

    I come around and complain how this process is immoral and wrong and then some supporters in that society asks me if I have a better plan. See it doesn't matter if I have a better process or not, wrong is just wrong. There shouldn't be an avenue open for these people to rape a violate any innocent woman.
    You are complaining about philosophical issues while blaming a system even though all known systems face the same philosophical problems, until you explain how you can build your system to eliminate the philosophical problems (if such a thing can be done) you are just talking nonsense. (or you are deliberately attacking a system using a fallacy)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    This is a republic in nutshell. You wanna hold an innocent woman down and rape then kill her? take their guns? violate their freedom of speech? kidnap and torture them? etc etc well just do it in a constitutional way and you are fine. It doesn't even matter that you are not supposed to violate someone's sovereignty who didn't attack you. Just go through the constitutional method and any sin is permissible.

    Btw, this is the best we can get.
    Massie's going in the right direction on this one.

    The US has not engaged in a "constitutional" war since WWII- and even that war would never have happened if the US had stayed out of WWI.

    Every war since then has been from TPTB & called by the POTUS. Congress is supposed to declare war & must have a majority to do so. And a US war is supposed to be defense, not offense. Of course people are tricked into most wars, so having honest statesmen instead of politicians is an important factor in staying out of war.

    And a real republic is the best possible way to have a government, unless you are living in Utopia. A democracy is mob rule & complete $#@!, but most don't understand the difference.

    Democracy:
    2 wolves & 1 lamb deciding what's for dinner.

    Republic:
    2 wolves & 1 lamb deciding what's for dinner, but lamb's not on the menu.

    Massie is working to lead the country back to a real republic.
    There is no spoon.

  15. #13
    These days, I don't trust Congress. They have no integrity. They do not have any backbone or values. They change and flip flop like insane people.

    With that said, War should not be decided by the POTUS.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Massie's going in the right direction on this one.

    The US has not engaged in a "constitutional" war since WWII- and even that war would never have happened if the US had stayed out of WWI.

    Every war since then has been from TPTB & called by the POTUS. Congress is supposed to declare war & must have a majority to do so. And a US war is supposed to be defense, not offense. Of course people are tricked into most wars, so having honest statesmen instead of politicians is an important factor in staying out of war.

    And a real republic is the best possible way to have a government, unless you are living in Utopia. A democracy is mob rule & complete $#@!, but most don't understand the difference.

    Democracy:
    2 wolves & 1 lamb deciding what's for dinner.

    Republic:
    2 wolves & 1 lamb deciding what's for dinner, but lamb's not on the menu.

    Massie is working to lead the country back to a real republic.
    Republic is a 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. That sounds all fine and dandy until you realize that the item on the menu is a sheep named Venezuela who did nothing to the 2 wolves and sheep deciding and then you understand how silly the so called difference between a democracy and a republic is. They are the same thing. Even in a republic, u get enough wolves on the table and you will be able to put all the sheep on the menu. Its all a numbers game. All the rights protected by a republic can be repealed if the mob is big enough.

    I do understand putting up some speed bumps against govt aggression and its benefits but the fact that they still have the ability to do it worries me. Another part that annoys me is this belief that if its done in a constitutional manner it is OK. I don't care how its done but attacking a country who did nothing to us is wrong. This is why I compare it to hold an innocent woman down raping and then killing her, every body understands that doing that is wrong no matter how we come about that decision.

    I would like people like Massie to make it clear that regardless of what method is used, launching a military attack on Venezuela for minding their own dam business is wrong. Btw, attack against Germany during WWII was also wrong, the fact that it was declared means nothing to me.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    ...
    We can try to structure government in ways that are advantageous to liberty and peace but in the end government is composed of people and people will have to make decisions like whether to declare war or not.
    That.

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    My suggestion would be a system where the govt is not given the opportunity to attack innocent people and countries who are minding their own business. But I am guessing that would be a pipe dream even for a democratic republic. But Massie is essentially calling for mob rule, he wants the people through their reps to debate the merit of war in Venezuela and after that, take a vote where the winner gets to decide. No protection whatsoever offered by the republic would spare then once the majority(if neocons) makes their decision for war.

    The problem with democracy is people vote, the problem with a republic is people vote
    Sorry, eliminating people from the equation is not an option. The problem is abuse of power.

    Why does the “leadership” of a nation engage in war? Because they can. Why does Venezuela not engage in direct war against other nations? Because they can’t.

    Massie is doing whatever he can, and a dedication to the rule of law is one way to limit war. The majority of “leadership” has no problem violating the law, thus the problem.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I would like people like Massie to make it clear that regardless of what method is used, launching a military attack on Venezuela for minding their own dam business is wrong. Btw, attack against Germany during WWII was also wrong, the fact that it was declared means nothing to me.
    Rest assured, Massie would not vote for military action against Venezuela.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    This is a republic in nutshell. You wanna hold an innocent woman down and rape then kill her? take their guns? violate their freedom of speech? kidnap and torture them? etc etc well just do it in a constitutional way and you are fine.
    How can you get all that from what Massie said?

  21. #18
    Nice to see Massie trying to throw a wrench into trump's NWO foreign policy!
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Rest assured, Massie would not vote for military action against Venezuela.
    I hope so, but he says it like he would be OK with it if such a bill passes. That part worries me. Wrong is wrong and it doesn't matter the methods used to achieve it, due process, congress, arbitration etc etc
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    How can you get all that from what Massie said?
    For the most part yes.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I hope so, but he says it like he would be OK with it if such a bill passes. That part worries me. Wrong is wrong and it doesn't matter the methods used to achieve it, due process, congress, arbitration etc etc
    You can’t vote “no” if there is no vote, thus Massie wants a constitutionally required vote.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    For the most part yes.
    That's absurd.

    I'm not even sure what provision in the Constitution you think empowers the federal government to rape and kill women. But whatever you had in mind, obviously Massie wasn't talking about that. He was appealing to the Constitution as a means of reigning the government in by demanding that Trump keep his oath of office and not wage war without a declaration of war made by Congress, and respecting other similar constitutional limitations, not giving it a license to rape women or do anything else.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    That.



    Sorry, eliminating people from the equation is not an option. The problem is abuse of power.

    Why does the “leadership” of a nation engage in war? Because they can. Why does Venezuela not engage in direct war against other nations? Because they can’t.

    Massie is doing whatever he can, and a dedication to the rule of law is one way to limit war. The majority of “leadership” has no problem violating the law, thus the problem.

    Why does the wolf eat the sheep? because it can. We are back to square one, I am criticizing the whole idea spread around here that republic is so much better that a democracy when they are virtually the same. All republics that have ever existed are democracies.

    Btw, good for him for trying. I just think he is giving minimal effort in the task which sadly is better than anyone else on the republican side. I would like him to speak more like Tulsi, not just ask for the govt to follow the processs but speaking about how wrong the plan is. We should have no business fighting Venezuelans.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I am criticizing the whole idea spread around here that republic is so much better that a democracy when they are virtually the same.
    By all means keep making that point. I completely agree. But I don't see how that applies to Massie.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    That's absurd.

    I'm not even sure what provision in the Constitution you think empowers the federal government to rape and kill women. But whatever you had in mind, obviously Massie wasn't talking about that. He was appealing to the Constitution as a means of reigning the government in by demanding that Trump keep his oath of office and not wage war without a declaration of war made by Congress, and respecting other similar constitutional limitations, not giving it a license to rape women or do anything else.
    You miss the point, its a vote to do something far worse than holding down an innocent woman, rape her and the kill her. War against an innocent nation who hasn't done anything to you is far worse than that. But as we know it, there is a constitutional process by which the people by way of their representatives can vote to commit this heinous act. And Massie is acting like he would be just OK with it as long as the proper method is used.

    I am not OK with it
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    You miss the point, its a vote to do something far worse than holding down an innocent woman, rape her and the kill her.
    Which part of Massie's quote indicates that he would vote to do that?

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Which part of Massie's quote indicates that he would vote to do that?
    He supports the vote to decide if the US should start a war in Venezuela. Now imagine him saying something like this

    The violence in Morrison household is appalling. I hope both sides can resolve their differences peacefully. However, if the American people support engaging in rapey action in the Morrison's household, then the Constitution requires proper congressional approval first.
    That would be a "hell no" from me, you do not have the right to rape anyone no matter the process used. Full stop. But Massie seems to be OK with the vote which I believe would likely pass.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Tell us about the system that is better...
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Aww Angeltc, the past 2 days must have been really rough for u. Your blood thirty imperialist mercs failed in their attempt to take over and dominate another independent country. Don't give up hope, drop the razor blade cos the US govt just like a powerful and determined rapist doesn't take no for an answer. They will pressing until they penetrate their victim. At that point, you can pop your champagne and celebrate.

    The weak are meat for the strong to eat, that is the sad reality of life. It makes no difference if the nation eating is democratic, republic or a mix of both.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Republic is a 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. That sounds all fine and dandy until you realize that the item on the menu is a sheep named Venezuela who did nothing to the 2 wolves and sheep deciding and then you understand how silly the so called difference between a democracy and a republic is. They are the same thing. Even in a republic, u get enough wolves on the table and you will be able to put all the sheep on the menu. Its all a numbers game. All the rights protected by a republic can be repealed if the mob is big enough.

    I do understand putting up some speed bumps against govt aggression and its benefits but the fact that they still have the ability to do it worries me. Another part that annoys me is this belief that if its done in a constitutional manner it is OK. I don't care how its done but attacking a country who did nothing to us is wrong. This is why I compare it to hold an innocent woman down raping and then killing her, every body understands that doing that is wrong no matter how we come about that decision.

    I would like people like Massie to make it clear that regardless of what method is used, launching a military attack on Venezuela for minding their own dam business is wrong. Btw, attack against Germany during WWII was also wrong, the fact that it was declared means nothing to me.
    I agree- but the problem is NOT a real republic- the problem is TPTB making their own rules. Massie is trying to educate people back to original intent. THAT is a move in the right direction.
    There is no spoon.

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