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Thread: Why Statist ideology is against common sense

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    Private hospitals don't put guns to our heads and strip mine us of resources. It's not a 1:1 comparison.
    So because they have a gun on your head, they are required to pull off something not even the private corporations can pull off?



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    Private hospitals don't put guns to our heads and strip mine us of resources. It's not a 1:1 comparison.
    No, but if you are dependent on any medications your doctor does. They OWN you and can extort you as they wish with meds because everyone else you call says "sorry, we are not taking on any new patients". Going through this right now and about ready to hire an attorney. You are not a "customer" to satisfy, you are the property of your self appointed legal custodian, your doctor. They can make you or break you with one sentence in your records or one phone call to the local health and human services. They have far too much legal power.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    So because they have a gun on your head, they are required to pull off something not even the private corporations can pull off?
    If Universal Studios was taxpayer funded, they could have three Hulk rides and shorter lines.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    So is the lines that u used to see at DMVs. Good thing govts have for the most part solved this problem. You see, this is the part that annoys me, if say the govt hospitals doesn't treat every single person with a complicated illness on time, the masses scream govt cant do anything right. But private hospitals just raise their prices to eliminate the lines and the same crowd cheers them for efficiency. Its demand and supply when they do but inefficiency when govt encounters the same problem.
    Rediculous! A hospital exists because it was created by someone voluntary while a the DMV was created by statute as a way to force people to drive with a license. So where’s the obvious analogy?


    BTW, a government program doesn’t exist because of supply and demand. It exists because of law and I said that in my original post. You lack common sense and so you prove my point!
    Last edited by dude58677; 04-20-2019 at 02:40 PM.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    So is the lines that u used to see at DMVs. Good thing govts have for the most part solved this problem. You see, this is the part that annoys me, if say the govt hospitals doesn't treat every single person with a complicated illness on time, the masses scream govt cant do anything right. But private hospitals just raise their prices to eliminate the lines and the same crowd cheers them for efficiency. Its demand and supply when they do but inefficiency when govt encounters the same problem.
    Let me share something with you I went through just yesterday with Dad and some lab work. The problem with our health care system is fraud that does not get reported because when it is free no one questions or places any value on what they are receiving. Nor do they care to question it, What the hell? it's free so who cares right?

    So dad's doctor made it a very "heavily" suggested fact to him that he must use the local hospital lab services because "they are who she is set up with". Yesterday I interrogated the process of how they are billing both him and medicare. This test was a simple one vial blood test that could be had down the street at a private "in and out" lab for about $100. But what this hospital was doing for access to their lab work was actually defrauding the system by "admitting " him as a patient into the hospital to access the lab for this work. As soon as the concept of being admitted to the hospital was included to the mix the billing was an immediate $1000. This is what happens and the difference between "socialized" medicine and private capitalist free market competition. If we go socialist it will ALL be like how the hospital is defrauding and padding the billing as they do with fraudulent classification of status. And you are paying right now for that fraud, wait until it is mandatory, you will be paying four times over for that fraud.

    Brilliant! way to go for being ignorant!

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Same can be aid for DMV, wait lines at private and public owned hospitals etc. At the DMV, people are waiting in the face of alternative private and public options tells me that whatever service they are providing must be very popular relative to the alternative. That is just how popularity works.
    WHAT private and - wait, what - public options?!

    Nah. People are there because they have to be. And - of course - you know this. There's no comparison at all. Come on...

    No, they are not forced to do anything, anyone can use public transport, hire a driver, rent a car, hire someone to register their car for them, go online and do it themselves etc etc. Nobody has to go to the DMV to survive in this society but going there yourself might make life more enjoyable.
    lol. You don't know what it's like to live in rural America, do you? Obviously you do not.

    Buying the easy pass doesn't actually eliminate the lines, it just shortens it. Its a bandaid to a problem that has been plaguing amusement park goers for decades now.

    Nothing about physics says Universal cannot open up new parks and greatly lessen the congestion. The same way a DMW can open more stations and hire more workers, the same option is available for amusement park companies and yet they rarely use this option.
    Again, they've proposed a mediation to the "problem" that you've perceived. You don't like it. Fine. I'll tell you what - DON'T GO. That'll signal that their solutions are inadequate.

    My issue is that people like you would make all sorts of excuses for private companies but would not even dare play devil's for DMV lines. Short time, but I would continue when I get back
    Whatever... here's the ACTUAL problem - you don't understand the nature of the relationship between people and the State. You don't understand that every interaction with the State is 100% predicated upon FORCE. Until you get that, you're just going to keep sounding like a fool.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Let me share something with you I went through just yesterday with Dad and some lab work. The problem with our health care system is fraud that does not get reported because when it is free no one questions or places any value on what they are receiving. Nor do they care to question it, What the hell? it's free so who cares right?

    So dad's doctor made it a very "heavily" suggested fact to him that he must use the local hospital lab services because "they are who she is set up with". Yesterday I interrogated the process of how they are billing both him and medicare. This test was a simple one vial blood test that could be had down the street at a private "in and out" lab for about $100. But what this hospital was doing for access to their lab work was actually defrauding the system by "admitting " him as a patient into the hospital to access the lab for this work. As soon as the concept of being admitted to the hospital was included to the mix the billing was an immediate $1000. This is what happens and the difference between "socialized" medicine and private capitalist free market competition. If we go socialist it will ALL be like how the hospital is defrauding and padding the billing as they do with fraudulent classification of status. And you are paying right now for that fraud, wait until it is mandatory, you will be paying four times over for that fraud.

    Brilliant! way to go for being ignorant!
    Your dad's doctor is getting a cut from the lab bill, that is why your dads bills are high and it doesn't follow that the same thing will happen when we have socialized medicine.

    I will tell you a story also, the pizza place at the Universal park has a slice of pizza for I think $7 but at dominos down the street, I can get a large 2 topping for $7.99. The reason why they are gouging you has a lot also to do with the fact that as a sick person, you are a captive customer i.e. they have you where they just want you and they(the private doc) will gouge you as much as he can get away with.

    Just saying

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    If Universal Studios was taxpayer funded, they could have three Hulk rides and shorter lines.
    You are right, I remember now, govts have unlimited resources. In addition to that, they could build anything they wanted combined with the fact that they have no incentive to improve their quality. And whenever you see a line in a govt run operation, just forget everything you know about demand and supply and pretend that it was there because they have no incentive to eliminate it.

    That is essentially the response I get from the opposition.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Your dad's doctor is getting a cut from the lab bill, that is why your dads bills are high and it doesn't follow that the same thing will happen when we have socialized medicine.

    I will tell you a story also, the pizza place at the Universal park has a slice of pizza for I think $7 but at dominos down the street, I can get a large 2 topping for $7.99. The reason why they are gouging you has a lot also to do with the fact that as a sick person, you are a captive customer i.e. they have you where they just want you and they(the private doc) will gouge you as much as he can get away with.

    Just saying
    Lol... I don't know how old you are... But it was not this way before O-bro care. Again you have no concept of rational mark up and fair business forced by competition.

    See... I have watched these slowly increment towards the bad for many many years now. And the reality of the facts are why they try to erase history.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Lol... I don't know how old you are... But it was not this way before O-bro care. Again you have no concept of rational mark up and fair business forced by competition.

    See... I have watched these slowly increment towards the bad for many many years now. And the reality of the facts are why they try to erase history.
    I never worked as a RN before O care but right now, the hospital I work in all do their lab draws in house, all of em and if you don't like it, you can wheel yourself down to the next hospital.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    You are right, I remember now, govts have unlimited resources. In addition to that, they could build anything they wanted combined with the fact that they have no incentive to improve their quality. And whenever you see a line in a govt run operation, just forget everything you know about demand and supply and pretend that it was there because they have no incentive to eliminate it.

    That is essentially the response I get from the opposition.
    If the State ran Universal Studios, no one would ever want to go there.

    There are lines at government agencies because those agencies do not experience competition - there are no price pressures on government agencies.

    There are lines at private companies because there is demand for their services.

    This is OBVIOUS. This is like 101 here. Even leftist economists don't deny this.

    What the hell are you even trying to get at with this line of argument!?

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I never worked as a RN before O care but right now, the hospital I work in all do their lab draws in house, all of em and if you don't like it, you can wheel yourself down to the next hospital.
    Healthcare in the US is a free market, now!? Good to know! In that case, you're right - the "free market" does not work. :LOL:

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I never worked as a RN before O care but right now, the hospital I work in all do their lab draws in house, all of em and if you don't like it, you can wheel yourself down to the next hospital.
    Here's the deal... They have advertised "walk in lab work". Yet as they write you up for "walk in lab work" as they are "checking you in" for a $1000 minimum like an emergency patient if you have medicare. and charging the cash deductible of $185 on top of that if it was your first visit of the new year period. For $100 worth of lab work. It's outright fraud... And this is happening all over the country because of "socialized" health care. The situation allows this predatory opportunity.

    I am old enough to have experienced what medical care was like before all this mess. A plastic pitcher was worth $3, now it's billed out at $55 or more. Why? Because the insurance companies won't pay the bill so they have to grossly inflate the prices. A free competitive market without any .gov/insurance control will adjust this back to where it should be and everyone will benefit from it.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    If the State ran Universal Studios, no one would ever want to go there.

    There are lines at government agencies because those agencies do not experience competition - there are no price pressures on government agencies.

    There are lines at private companies because there is demand for their services.

    This is OBVIOUS. This is like 101 here. Even leftist economists don't deny this.

    What the hell are you even trying to get at with this line of argument!?
    No, the govt run state fairs have a lot of demand and face competition and I would go to my state fair over Universal any day. In fact, I think this will be my last time ever coming to Universal Orlando. The cost, the time spend away from home and the long, long, long lines is not worth it.

    The lines at the DMV are there because many people are not expecting a posh experience when they go in for a car registration, they would take a low key, cheap and slow experience over a fast, more expensive one any day and that is a bigger issue than competition. There are lines at so many places run by private institutions and people still show up.

    Funny, you said lines at govt agencies are there because they don't have competition and then you say that demand for their services is the reason for the lines at private businesses. How come competition is not affecting the lines at private businesses? Maybe price people are willing to pay has a bigger effect that competition?

    I am trying to say that the lines at DMV cannot be easily explained away by just blaming lack of competition.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Healthcare in the US is a free market, now!? Good to know! In that case, you're right - the "free market" does not work. :LOL:
    I never said that, I am just saying that free market doesn't not always protect you from price gouging. The poster I was replying to was implying that all this would go away if the free market ran everything.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    If the State ran Universal Studios, no one would ever want to go there.

    There are lines at government agencies because those agencies do not experience competition - there are no price pressures on government agencies.

    There are lines at private companies because there is demand for their services.

    This is OBVIOUS. This is like 101 here. Even leftist economists don't deny this.

    What the hell are you even trying to get at with this line of argument!?
    Because real world economics are no longer taught in education facilities. Even the dumbest county bumpkin knows you can't get 7 gallons from a 3 gallon set of udders. No matter how hard you squeeze them. lol

    Man... It's not "rocket science". It's just practical common sense. lol

    Honestly? It's scaring the crap out of me...

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    So because they have a gun on your head, they are required to pull off something not even the private corporations can pull off?
    If we get caught running a business or driving a car without a license we could get fined and go to jail. We better obey the bad ass IRS/DMV which was enacted by statute to make sure we obey the bad ass laws or we go to the slammer. But it’s not forceful in anyway and customer satistifaction and performance is everything to the bad asses with guns and to the men in suits who write up these bad ass penalties! Right?

    Note the sarcasm!

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    No, the govt run state fairs...

    They might control the land and which vendors have access to it, but the vendors are private.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

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    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    They might control the land and which vendors have access to it, but the vendors are private.
    Same goes for Kaufmann stadium but I have been told that just because the govt owns it, they are responsible for the long lines at the bathrooms even though private contractors essentially run the stadium.

    Its hard for people to admit that people many times don't mind lines(be it govt or private ones) when it means they pay less.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I never said that, I am just saying that free market doesn't not always protect you from price gouging. The poster I was replying to was implying that all this would go away if the free market ran everything.
    Yes it would... Because it would only take a week to shut down the crooks by word of mouth. I have SEEN it happen, more than once, many times over now. But when you have the government regulating who can and who cannot operate and provide supply for a demand, this creates the opportunity for THEM ALL to screw you through this controlled regulation. I got news for you... If you don't think that price fixing is not a real thing I have a bridge to sell you.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Same goes for Kaufmann stadium but I have been told that just because the govt owns it, they are responsible for the long lines at the bathrooms even though private contractors essentially run the stadium.

    Its hard for people to admit that people many times don't mind lines(be it govt or private ones) when it means they pay less.
    Wait, private vendors run the bathrooms? You do know the government has stepped into this with requiring new Stadiums to have more bathrooms for female over men right?

    Ex: H.R. 4869, RESTROOM GENDER PARITY IN FEDERAL BUILDINGS ACT
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Yes it would... Because it would only take a week to shut down the crooks by word of mouth. I have SEEN it happen, more than once, many times over now. But when you have the government regulating who can and who cannot operate and provide supply for a demand, this creates the opportunity for THEM ALL to screw you through this controlled regulation. I got news for you... If you don't think that price fixing is not a real thing I have a bridge to sell you.
    There will always be pockets where a private business can hold you captive long enough to take clean you out. You see that with amusement parks, hospital, movie theatres etc etc.

    Btw, I do believe that private corporations are more efficient and more responsive to their customers but at the same time I believe that lines exists for reasons other than lack of competition aka because of govt.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    They might control the land and which vendors have access to it, but the vendors are private.
    They purchase a permit to use the grounds and sell guns if they like. lol

    Our local guns shows are on the fair grounds.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    There will always be pockets where a private business can hold you captive long enough to take clean you out. You see that with amusement parks, hospital, movie theatres etc etc.

    Btw, I do believe that private corporations are more efficient and more responsive to their customers but at the same time I believe that lines exists for reasons other than lack of competition aka because of govt.
    WAKE UP! You have the option to not participate. They fold and we try the new one that might be smart enough to see the mistake the last one made. Sooner or later someone smart will finally "get it". lol Honestly... I seen it happen. The first time it was a drive in theater that went Nazi and started making folks open trunks to look for human smuggling into the theater. Over a one year period they caught 5. In the mean time they had pissed off enough regular users that they had to shutdown because of loss of participation. So for "5" who didn't pay to get in they lost everything.

    Friggen stupid...

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    There will always be pockets where a private business can hold you captive long enough to take clean you out. You see that with amusement parks, hospital, movie theatres etc etc.

    Btw, I do believe that private corporations are more efficient and more responsive to their customers but at the same time I believe that lines exists for reasons other than lack of competition aka because of govt.
    The moral of the story is... Someone else came in and bought the place lowered the rates, and kicked ass because they didn't waste profits and time to "micromanage" it. In fact they did very well up until folks just did not go to drive-ins anymore.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Wait, private vendors run the bathrooms? You do know the government has stepped into this with requiring new Stadiums to have more bathrooms for female over men right?

    Ex: H.R. 4869, RESTROOM GENDER PARITY IN FEDERAL BUILDINGS ACT
    I think they just own the building but contract out the day to day running to private institutions. And if I am right then one would expect them to use their one size fits all approach by creating a fast lane and/or charging extra for the privilege of using the restroom. But no, they just allow their paying customers to suffer through long bathroom lines

    Actually that would help resolve the long lines. We all know women have smaller bladders, take a longer time to do their business and mix these 2 combos with the fact that alcohol which is served at these events is a diuretic. Building more restrooms maybe a sol that works.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    The moral of the story is... Someone else came in and bought the place lowered the rates, and kicked ass because they didn't waste profits and time to "micromanage" it. In fact they did very well up until folks just did not go to drive-ins anymore.
    That is amazing, just about every theatre around here that show latest movies all have expensive concession prices.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    If we get caught running a business or driving a car without a license we could get fined and go to jail. We better obey the bad ass IRS/DMV which was enacted by statute to make sure we obey the bad ass laws or we go to the slammer. But it’s not forceful in anyway and customer satisfactions and performance is everything to the bad asses with guns and to the men in suits who write up these bad ass penalties! Right?

    Note the sarcasm!
    In your OP you said govt agencies have no incentive to function, is that sarcasm too?

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    That is amazing, just about every theatre around here that show latest movies all have expensive concession prices.
    Key here is "drive in theater". those were quite awhile back when folks were not thieves and did "fair" business. 30% mark up instead of 300% mark up.

  35. #60
    Sigh...

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    No, the govt run state fairs have a lot of demand and face competition and I would go to my state fair over Universal any day.
    Generally, demand does not indicate that state/county fairs are higher value venues than Universal.

    Also, that you prefer the shakedown artists, poorly constructed "rides", and "food" of a state fair over a well designed, amazing experience like Universal seems, to me at least, to be bullsh!t. I guess to each his own, however. Good for you.

    In fact, I think this will be my last time ever coming to Universal Orlando. The cost, the time spend away from home and the long, long, long lines is not worth it.
    Okay. Good for you. If enough people feel the same way, Universal WILL respond to the market pressures they detect. That's a great thing about free markets - because there is no compulsion, private companies must react or diminish and fail.

    The lines at the DMV are there...
    Let me stop you right there: The ONLY reason ANYONE is at the DMV is because they are COMPELLED to be there BY the state. That's it. That's all the further you need to take it. NO ONE is there because of any other reason. This is indisputable to anyone with a lick of sense...

    Funny, you said lines at govt agencies are there because they don't have competition
    I was contrasting the market experience of a private, voluntary service against a "public", compelled entity; I did so ham-fistedly, admittedly. The point is that the "public", compelled entities experience no market forces which encourage them to improve their service...

    and then you say that demand for their services is the reason for the lines at private businesses. How come competition is not affecting the lines at private businesses? Maybe price people are willing to pay has a bigger effect that competition?
    ...and you said yourself that Disney/Universal made options to improve the experience available to their customers.

    Also, again - Disney/Universal has built entertainment which has become very highly demanded by the general public. That is a resource which is limited, which results in higher prices, and limited availability. Until the public tires of the product to such a degree that general demand for that service goes down to a point at which it makes sense for management to lower prices and/or increase availability, you're going to deal with lines.

    This is a wholly separate reality from what you experience at the fcking DMV. NO ONE is there because they want to be there, and are looking forward to the experience and are willing to pay for it.
    Last edited by A Son of Liberty; 04-21-2019 at 10:27 AM.

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