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Thread: Illegal Migrants Come Here as Ready-made Democrats — Here’s Why

  1. #1

    Illegal Migrants Come Here as Ready-made Democrats — Here’s Why

    “The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next,” goes the apocryphal saying. This may explain why leftist Mexican president Andrés Manuel López Obrador, doing the bidding of a leftist teachers’ union, has halted reform of his nation’s wanting education system. After all, the philosophy in it has long been his.
    This is “significant for us, because Mexico has already sent us large numbers of the products of this educational system,” writes American Thinker’s Monica Showalter. “And the World Bank confirms that Central America’s educational system is pretty much just like it. For Democrats here, though, it’s the perfect formula for new voters.”
    As Showalter explains, many Mexicans aren’t just poorly educated — they’re miseducated, indoctrinated full-bore with Marxism. Along with their sub-literacy, this makes them easy prey for leftist demagogues.
    Showalter then cites a 2013 Wall Street Journal article detailing just how corrupt and politicized education is in southern Mexico. As the writer José de Córdoba reported:
    SAN LUCAS QUIAVINI, Mexico — During a recent teachers strike in this Zapotec Indian town in the poor southern state of Oaxaca, parents who brought in replacement instructors discovered that the children hadn’t been taught the words to Mexico's national anthem. Instead, they had been trained to sing a popular leftist song which acts as an unofficial anthem to a local chapter of the teachers union.
    “We don’t know the words to the Mexican anthem,” said Leticia Diego, a student, apologizing to a visitor one recent morning. About a dozen seventh-graders then shyly sang the leftist anthem, “The People United Will Never Be Defeated.”
    The union here is the National Coordinator of Educational Workers, or CNTE, a radical and powerful wing of the country’s national teachers union. Analysts say it has long maintained an iron grip over some of Mexico’s poorest states — one that goes beyond what children are taught, and extends to lengthy strikes, disruptive protests and violent clashes.
    De Córdoba also writes, Showalter summarizes,
    that the teachers go on strike for so long it amounts to an effective school year, depriving students of any education at all. They are massively overpaid, too, and strike because they want more. Like true commissars, they penalize any teachers who resist their efforts to strike or indoctrinate, with lost privileges, loans, job changes, and promotions. They collude with leftist guerrilla groups aiming to overthrow the government. And they steal like thieves — forcing the government to shovel cash into their left-wing projects. They scream about “privatization'” and any effort to set school standards. They also abuse any parents who resist. Instead of learning to add or subtract, the students are forced to don black balaclavas and reenact the Marxist Chiapas [Zapatista uprising of 25] years ago. And these leftists treat their jobs as valuable sinecures, allowing their ignorant offspring to inherit them like cash cows, never mind the students who will have to endure such incompetent teachers.
    In other words, they are the perfect model of the modern Marxist criminal.

    Showalter claims that Central America’s miseducation system is even worse. This helps explain why Hispanic immigrants — who constitute upwards of 40 percent of all immigrants and a vast majority of illegal aliens — vote Democrat by 70- to 90-percent margins upon naturalization (and sometimes even before). It also explains why Democrats just love immigration, even if they don’t love immigrants themselves, which is why they want them in our nation but not their neighborhood.
    Examining this Mexican Marxism’s roots, Showalter writes that in “the wake of the Spanish civil war, rabid leftists fled the country and first landed in Puerto Rico. Some stayed, but Mexico extended to them the entire educational establishment at the university level, and from there, they spread into the school system, to the earliest levels. They converted what had been education to Marxist indoctrination, and in the absence of any other education, it was all the children of these countries ever learned.”
    While this no doubt must have had a devastating effect, hard-core Mexican leftism actually predates the Spanish Civil War (1936 and 1939). In fact, a vicious, anti-Christian Mexican regime that took power in the 1920s under President Plutarco Calles would often imprison people “for wearing religious items, saying ‘Adios’ in public (which literally means ‘with God’), or even questioning the laws. Public worship was a crime punishable by hanging or firing squad,” as The Catholic Gene relates.
    This led to the uprising of faithful peasants known as Cristero War, which claimed 90,000 lives and was movingly and accurately portrayed in the spectacular 2012 film For Greater Glory (trailer below).




    As to Mexican leftism, it not only didn’t start just when the Spanish Civil War ended; it also can’t be blamed entirely on formal (mis)education. (This is true of leftism everywhere.) Today, the media and entertainment, especially, play a huge role, as popular culture shapes popular thinking. These entities also influence the degree of virtue in the people — and virtue, or lack thereof, is what really informs about a society’s fate and fatal mistakes.
    This is why the Founding Fathers — part of America’s real greatest generation — so frequently stressed virtue. And here’s one short example of what happens when it’s lacking. British statesman Winston Churchill correctly called socialism the “gospel of envy,” and envy is a Deadly Sin. Sin characterizes vice-ridden people, who merely exhibit man’s default; that is, what fallen man naturally falls into unless he strives for virtue. Thus, it’s no surprise that America’s descent into decadence is accompanied by an embrace of socialism. (Read more on this here.)
    Importing ready-made socialists just exacerbates this problem, of course, and it’s not only Latin Americans. Given the leftism of Western Europe — and that, really, most all today’s immigrant groups are to the “left” of Middle America — it’s hard to find newcomers who actually do “enrich” our country, as the immigrationist selling point goes.
    This is why we’d be best served today by prioritizing exports over imports — with people being no exception.

    https://www.thenewamerican.com/world...ats-here-s-why


    It goes back into the 1800's
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #2
    Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador on April 16 ordered Interior Minister Olga Sanchez Cordero, Public Education Secretary Esteban Moctezuma and Finance Minister Carlos Urzua to halt enforcement of the education reforms approved by Congress in 2013. That constitutional reform of the country's education system had enacted accountability measures, including frequent performance evaluations and stricter sanctions for teachers who did not meet performance requirements.

    Lopez Obrador's decision matters for three main reasons. First, it sets the stage for a high-profile political conflict between the courts and political opposition against Lopez Obrador and his allies in the teachers' unions. The unions had long campaigned against education reform, and Lopez Obrador had made repealing the reform a campaign promise. Mexico's opposition is likely to challenge the decree in federal court, and a reversal of the president's decree is likely. Such a ruling would almost certainly spark major demonstrations, possibly leading to supply chain disruptions for companies that rely on the Pacific coast port of Lazaro Cardenas to import goods or manufacturing inputs. Mexico's combative teachers' unions have frequently blocked rail and road links to the port to voice their opposition to education reform.

    Regardless of how courts rule on the decree's legality, its existence alone will make it harder for future presidents to proceed under the 2013 education reforms; the unions have already tasted victory, and getting them to comply with reform will now be nearly impossible in some particularly fractious places. This, in turn, will make improving the skills of Mexico's workforce harder, something with negative implications for foreign investors.

    The move also creates uncertainty over what other laws Lopez Obrador might try to erase by presidential fiat even though he clearly does not have the power to overturn constitutional reforms or legislation by decree alone. Such actions will deepen the polarization separating supporters and opponents of reforms and legislation that the president targets; Lopez Obrador may be able to extract political capital from his supporters' inflamed sentiments over reform.

    More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/artic...cation-reforms
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    In the next presidential election, Hispanic voters will exceed black voters by six percent.
    And that demographic shift isn’t the only news in a Pew report about the 2020 election and who will vote in it.
    Reading between the lines shows that immigration is not only the reason for blacks losing second place to whites demographically, but also the reason the electorate is shifting left and headed toward a tipping point that will ensure perpetual Democratic rule.
    In other words, for Republicans, the numbers don’t bode well.
    Hispanic Ascendency, Foreign Voters
    “While demographic changes unfold slowly, it’s already clear that the 2020 electorate will be unique in several ways,” Pew analysts Anthony Cilluffo and Richard Fry wrote. “Nonwhites will account for a third of eligible voters — their largest share ever — driven by long-term increases among certain groups, especially Hispanics.”
    The writers anticipate that “Hispanics will be the largest racial or ethnic minority group in the electorate, accounting for just over 13% of eligible voters — slightly more than blacks.”
    Hispanics accounted for seven percent of voters in 2000 and nine percent in 2008, yet the black percentage, Cilluffo and Fry wrote, has been constant since 2000 at 12 percent.
    But by 2020, Hispanic voters will outnumber black voters 32 million to 30 million, or six percent. Asians too are growing as a portion of the electorate, the writers aver.

    But here, for Republicans, is where the trouble lies: At least 33 percent of eligible voters will be nonwhite, up from 25 percent in 2000, largely thanks to immigration. Ten percent of voters in the next election will be foreign-born, the most since 1970, Cilluffo and Fry reported:
    The changing racial and ethnic composition of the electorate likely has political implications in part because nonwhites have long been significantly more likely than whites to back Democratic candidates. For instance, in the 2016 election, white voters favored Donald Trump by a 15 percentage point margin, while large majorities of blacks and Hispanics voted for Hillary Clinton.
    This truth explains why the Democrats favor open borders and refuse to provide the funding for the border wall President Trump promised. The “migrants,” if not future voters themselves, will bear children who will most likely vote for Democrats.
    Hispanic Voting
    The numbers partly explain why Republicans feel the urgent need to beg for the Hispanic vote, not least by pandering with ads in Spanish and mindlessly regurgitating the open-borders “nation-of-immigrants” myth.
    If they try hard enough, Republicans believe, they can seduce this growing block of voters.
    Trump proved that belief without merit in 2016, by winning two percent more of the Hispanic vote than Mitt Romney in 2012, and validated what Heather Mac Donald has explained for years about the GOP’s “Hispanic Delusion.”
    “If Republicans want to change their stance on immigration,” she wrote in 2012, “they should do so on the merits, not out of a belief that only immigration policy stands between them and a Republican Hispanic majority.”
    “It is not immigration policy that creates the strong bond between Hispanics and the Democratic party,” Mac Donald wrote, but “the core Democratic principles of a more generous safety net, strong government intervention in the economy, and progressive taxation.”
    In other words, Hispanics favor leftist policies.
    GOP economic policies, she wrote, “were a stronger turn-off for Hispanic voters in California than Republican positions on illegal immigration. Twenty-nine percent of Hispanic voters were suspicious of the Republican Party on class-warfare grounds — ‘it favors only the rich’; ‘Republicans are selfish and out for themselves’; ‘Republicans don’t represent the average person’ — compared with 7 percent who objected to Republican immigration stances.”
    Thus must Republicans abandon the fantasy that Hispanics crossing the border are so strong on “family values” they will reject the party of LGBT activism and abortion and vote GOP.
    “What Republicans mean by ‘family values’ and what Hispanics mean are two completely different things,” a top Hispanic marketing expert told Mac Donald. “We are a very compassionate people, we care about other people and understand that government has a role to play in helping people.”
    And why is that? Mac Donald explained that “U.S.-born Hispanic households in California use welfare programs at twice the rate of native-born non-Hispanic households.”
    In other words, if the choice is between free stuff and protecting the lives of the unborn or the sanctity of marriage, free stuff wins.

    https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...vertake-blacks
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    In other words, if the choice is between free stuff and protecting the lives of the unborn or the sanctity of marriage, free stuff wins.
    Especially when you have no skills to speak of.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Especially when you have no skills to speak of.
    But they are qualified for jobs Americans won't do................................................ .Like voting for communists Demoncrats.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Bump
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    So if you don't want immigrants, why are you shylling for the guy whose NWO foreign policy efforts in Latin America create more immigrants?
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    So if you don't want immigrants, why are you shylling for the guy whose NWO foreign policy efforts in Latin America create more immigrants?
    I oppose foreign intervention but Trump is doing more good than harm and he is certainly doing less harm than any of the viable alternatives would have done or will do.
    I've said it many times and I'll say it again: Let me know if a better option comes along.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    bump
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Bump
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    bump
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    bump



    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I oppose foreign intervention but
    Every single time I hear that [but] from you, or someone else, I guarantee myself the following: it costs us all more in liberty, and sinks us way, way further into debt.

    So, when I hear that word “but”, I equate it with lack of principle and stance, and communism.

    Did I mention I hate that word “but”, especially when it comes to politics?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Every single time I hear that [but] from you, or someone else, I guarantee myself the following: it costs us all more in liberty, and sinks us way, way further into debt.

    So, when I hear that word “but”, I equate it with lack of principle and stance, and communism.

    Did I mention I hate that word “but”, especially when it comes to politics?
    Life is full of "buts", if you can't handle them you will fail completely.

    When I hear people like you I equate them with not only failure to accomplish anything but also losing even more ground.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Here is a better question:

    Why do people vote Republican? What is the purpose?

    27 states have Republican governors and 23 states have Democratic governors.

    Clearly Republicans outnumber the democrats.

    Yet, most of those states STILL have Common Core, which is brainwashing our kids.

    So then I ask myself, what the f&ck is the difference. And then I answer myself, there isn’t any, other than a bone here and there to keep people coming back for more.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ates_governors
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Life is full of "buts", if you can't handle them you will fail completely.

    When I hear people like you I equate them with not only failure to accomplish anything but also losing even more ground.
    “But” is not part of my vocabulary, and I taught my offspring the same. I consider myself very successful in life, and so is my offspring.

    “But” is for cop-outs and excuse makers, plain and simple.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Here is a better question:

    Why do people vote Republican? What is the purpose?

    27 states have Republican governors and 23 states have Democratic governors.

    Clearly Republicans outnumber the democrats.

    Yet, most of those states STILL have Common Core, which is brainwashing our kids.

    So then I ask myself, what the f&ck is the difference. And then I answer myself, there isn’t any, other than a bone here and there to keep people coming back for more.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ates_governors
    @Swordsmyth

    When people vote Republican, what is the message they are trying to give? When “republicans” win and outnumber the democrats, isn’t that “the message”?

    Yet, here we are, immigrants not required.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Here is a better question:

    Why do people vote Republican? What is the purpose?

    27 states have Republican governors and 23 states have Democratic governors.

    Clearly Republicans outnumber the democrats.

    Yet, most of those states STILL have Common Core, which is brainwashing our kids.

    So then I ask myself, what the f&ck is the difference. And then I answer myself, there isn’t any, other than a bone here and there to keep people coming back for more.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ates_governors



    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    @Swordsmyth

    When people vote Republican, what is the message they are trying to give? When “republicans” win and outnumber the democrats, isn’t that “the message”?

    Yet, here we are, immigrants not required.
    @Swordsmyth


    So then I think to myself, if there really is no difference at all, why should I, and others, support republicans when all I [we] get is democrat policy.

    And the I [we] drop out of the system, and then you NEOCONS get upset because we have figured out the game, you cannot blame it on us, so then you blame others outside of our country.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”



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  20. #17
    ^^^^
    @Swordsmyth bump
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Here is a better question:

    Why do people vote Republican? What is the purpose?

    27 states have Republican governors and 23 states have Democratic governors.

    Clearly Republicans outnumber the democrats.

    Yet, most of those states STILL have Common Core, which is brainwashing our kids.

    So then I ask myself, what the f&ck is the difference. And then I answer myself, there isn’t any, other than a bone here and there to keep people coming back for more.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ates_governors
    In NH we passed a bill HR1744 that mandates an alternative test for any parent that requests it and prevents the state or school for "retribution" or penalties of any type and keeps the parents name private.

    I hate to have to keep defending the GOP but at the state level there is clearly a difference.

    This bill would never have happened under the current legislature of leftists that swept in at the end of last year.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Here is a better question:

    Why do people vote Republican? What is the purpose?

    27 states have Republican governors and 23 states have Democratic governors.

    Clearly Republicans outnumber the democrats.

    Yet, most of those states STILL have Common Core, which is brainwashing our kids.

    So then I ask myself, what the f&ck is the difference. And then I answer myself, there isn’t any, other than a bone here and there to keep people coming back for more.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ates_governors
    There are a lot of big differences, abortion, gun rights, taxes, regulations, religious freedom, freedom of speech, freedom to home school and much more, the differences are not as big as they should be but they get bigger every year.

    I'd much rather live in Idaho than Kalifornia for instance and you could make the same comparison between many other states.

    The Demoncrats have driven off the cliff and are plummeting into the bottomless pit while Republicans are actually improving.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    “But” is not part of my vocabulary, and I taught my offspring the same. I consider myself very successful in life, and so is my offspring.

    “But” is for cop-outs and excuse makers, plain and simple.
    Not having "but" in your vocabulary makes you a simpleton and limits any success you might ever have.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    In NH we passed a bill HR1744 that mandates an alternative test for any parent that requests it and prevents the state or school for "retribution" or penalties of any type and keeps the parents name private.

    I hate to have to keep defending the GOP but at the state level there is clearly a difference.

    This bill would never have happened under the current legislature of leftists that swept in at the end of last year.
    The leftists would had preferred endless migration waves and open borders.
    As their counterparts do in Europe.



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