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Thread: Trump considers sending illegals to sanctuary cities

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Not if you are the worker.
    I was speaking objectively for the economy as a whole, not subjectively for any single winner or loser.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I was speaking objectively for the economy as a whole, not subjectively for any single winner or loser.
    You are a stinking commie and your claims about being objective about anything are laughable.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    The problem can be solved by free markets. Start offering wages at the level workers who are already here are willing to accept.
    Of course we will have to raise prices to pay for those higher wages. How much are you willing to pick vegetables for?


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I was speaking objectively for the economy as a whole, not subjectively for any single winner or loser.
    You were speaking for yourself and ignoring the indirect costs to the economy as a whole.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Of course we will have to raise prices to pay for those higher wages. How much are you willing to pick vegetables for?
    How much are you willing to inseminate cattle for?

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Of course we will have to raise prices to pay for those higher wages. How much are you willing to pick vegetables for?
    No, just cut back on the salary of management to compensate.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Not if you are the worker.
    Agreed. What a worker is compensated can go so low that they can not compete and maintain a livable wage. Then they turn around and blame the displaced worker for "living beyond his means". Rich get richer at the expense of exploiting the poor.

    Much like trying to compete with the Govt when it provides a "free" service. That is a big part of what destroys the Free Market is the inability to compete. No one can compete with Free, and the wet dream of so many employers is "free" labor, IE Immigrants, then Robots then AI.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Agreed. What a worker is compensated can go so low that they can not compete and maintain a livable wage. Then they turn around and blame the displaced worker for "living beyond his means". Rich get richer at the expense of exploiting the poor.
    While the welfare ticks of all kinds are subsidized so that they are willing to work for less than they can live on, out of taxes taken from the workers who still just barely support themselves no less.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    No, just cut back on the salary of management to compensate.
    They would rather cut your wages or raise prices.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Agreed. What a worker is compensated can go so low that they can not compete and maintain a livable wage. Then they turn around and blame the displaced worker for "living beyond his means". Rich get richer at the expense of exploiting the poor.

    Much like trying to compete with the Govt when it provides a "free" service. That is a big part of what destroys the Free Market is the inability to compete. No one can compete with Free, and the wet dream of so many employers is "free" labor, IE Immigrants, then Robots then AI.

    Maybe the government can pay them enough to have a "livable wage"? Or should they get paid as little as the employer can get away with and still hire enough workers?


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    They would rather cut your wages or raise prices.
    They can only do that if the labor market is manipulated.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Maybe the government can pay them enough to have a "livable wage"? Or should they get paid as little as the employer can get away with and still hire enough workers?
    That's the wrong question.

    The question is whether the rich should be able to distort the labor market and shift the costs of that onto everyone else.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They can only do that if the labor market is manipulated.
    If people are willing to work for that wage, how is the labor market manipulated?


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If people are willing to work for that wage, how is the labor market manipulated?
    Because excessive low skilled immigrants are allowed to come here in spite of the costs to the community at large.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Because excessive low skilled immigrants are allowed to come here in spite of the costs to the community at large.
    Shouldn't an employer be allowed to hire whomever he wants to? Even if they come from another country?


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Shouldn't an employer be allowed to hire whomever he wants to? Even if they come from another country?
    No.

    The number of immigrants allowed should be controlled to preserve the liberty of the citizens.


    There is more to it all as well, we have had an excessive low skill labor pool subsidized domestically for multiple generations.
    And the rest of the world is not the same as the US, even if we were to merge into a global economy it would have to take place slowly and in a controlled fashion, you can't just add an unlimited number of low skilled workers all at once without breaking the system, you would need to do it slowly over generations so that the economy could adapt and create more jobs for them all.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No.

    The number of immigrants allowed should be controlled to preserve the liberty of the citizens.


    There is more to it all as well, we have had an excessive low skill labor pool subsidized domestically for multiple generations.
    And the rest of the world is not the same as the US, even if we were to merge into a global economy it would have to take place slowly and in a controlled fashion, you can't just add an unlimited number of low skilled workers all at once without breaking the system, you would need to do it slowly over generations so that the economy could adapt and create more jobs for them all.
    So you don't like free markets but favor government interference.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So you don't like free markets but favor government interference.
    Internally we should have free markets, externally we must protect our citizens from foreign threats.

    Free markets only work if all participants not only play by the same rules but have done so for long enough that there are no destructive differences between them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Of course we will have to raise prices to pay for those higher wages. How much are you willing to pick vegetables for?
    Someone should invent a machine that can pick veggies of all kinds. That'll stop people from coming to pick our veggies.
    Last edited by Pauls' Revere; 04-13-2019 at 08:21 PM.
    - SUPPORT FREE TRADE, SMUGGLE -

    2 + 2 = 5.

  24. #50
    The guy that raised $20 million for the wall should offer to pay bus tickets. He raised $20 million. Bus ticket from El Paso to San Fran, District 12, $150 bucks. That's $15 million to ship every released detainee to Pelosi's District. For THIS month. With $5 million left over to ship the next wave to New York District 12. I'll kick in $150 for that wave.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    The guy that raised $20 million for the wall should offer to pay bus tickets. He raised $20 million. Bus ticket from El Paso to San Fran, District 12, $150 bucks. That's $15 million to ship every released detainee to Pelosi's District. For THIS month. With $5 million left over to ship the next wave to New York District 12. I'll kick in $150 for that wave.
    Might be cheaper to put them on a train.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Maybe the government can pay them enough to have a "livable wage"? Or should they get paid as little as the employer can get away with and still hire enough workers?
    How about Govt does its $#@!ing job and not let every illegal into the country to compete for the bottom of the barrel $#@! jobs? Maybe that gives the workers some leverage when negotiating wages with employers, thus allowing them to both agree on what the employee gets paid instead of Slavery? Its called Free Market, which does NOT have Slavery.

    The Govt solution to any problem is far too often worse than the original problem itself.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Might be cheaper to put them on a train.
    I'm sure a bulk discount could be made.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So you don't like free markets but favor government interference.
    RPF presents: Zippy and his dumb questions. So you like dildos, but not really the big ones!

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I'm sure a bulk discount could be made.
    And an infrastructure investment + tax credits to address the growing need.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Shouldn't an employer be allowed to hire whomever he wants to? Even if they come from another country?
    No.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    And an infrastructure investment + tax credits to address the growing need.
    Was talking GoFundME. Not a government expenditure.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    How about Govt does its $#@!ing job and not let every illegal into the country to compete for the bottom of the barrel $#@! jobs? Maybe that gives the workers some leverage when negotiating wages with employers, thus allowing them to both agree on what the employee gets paid instead of Slavery? Its called Free Market, which does NOT have Slavery.

    The Govt solution to any problem is far too often worse than the original problem itself.
    Well, see. THAT is the solution. How do you destroy a middle class that is conservative in nature? You undercut it.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Was talking GoFundME. Not a government expenditure.
    It would be a mistake. Why wouldn't you want to milk this cow? Uncle Sam is always looking to increase the budget. As a good citizen you should always help the state to waste money. Look at the disparity of income between the blue and red states.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    It would be a mistake. Why wouldn't you want to milk this cow? Uncle Sam is always looking to increase the budget. As a good citizen you should always help the state to waste money. Look at the disparity of income between the blue and red states.
    Disagree. 100k indigents showing up on Pelosi's or Shumer's doorstep would be the best thing in the world. The more, the sooner, the better.

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