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Thread: Border 'Crisis' Intensifies - Do We Need Radical Enforcement...Or Radical Policy Change?

  1. #1

    Border 'Crisis' Intensifies - Do We Need Radical Enforcement...Or Radical Policy Change?



    Trump has threatened to close the border with Mexico entirely. While Trump is considered an immigration hawk, it was Obama who deported more illegals than any president in history. Will keeping the same basic policy on immigration - but doing it harder - really solve the "crisis"? Or do we need a new approach? Watch Ron Paul's view in today's Liberty Report
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”



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  3. #2
    Before even watching....................Less government is the answer.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Before even watching....................Less government is the answer.
    Yep- pretty much what Ron says.

    No entitlements
    Stop the WoD
    Stop meddling in S & C America

    Work on the Libertarian principles of:
    Voluntarism;
    Private property rights;
    Getting along with people.
    There is no spoon.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Yep- pretty much what Ron says.

    No entitlements
    Stop the WoD
    Stop meddling in S & C America

    Work on the Libertarian principles of:
    Voluntarism;
    Private property rights;
    Getting along with people.
    Nothing if not consistent...

    Gotta love the good Dr.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Nothing if not consistent...

    Gotta love the good Dr.
    Yep- he definitely became my Morpheus- pulling into truth.
    There is no spoon.

  7. #6
    We need both.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We need both.
    You'll have better luck trying to convince me to vote for open season on messicans than trying to convince me of the need for more government.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    You'll have better luck trying to convince me to vote for open season on messicans than trying to convince me of the need for more government.
    It's not more government, it's the government being forced to do what it is already supposed to do and what is one of the basic legitimate duties of the smallest government.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's not more government,
    Bull$#@!.

  12. #10
    Isn't one of the responsibilities of the federal government to protect us from foreign enemies? Even if those enemies have resulted from acts or omissions of said government?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by navy-vet View Post
    Isn't one of the responsibilities of the federal government to protect us from foreign enemies? Even if those enemies have resulted from acts or omissions of said government?
    Absolutely.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by navy-vet View Post
    Isn't one of the responsibilities of the federal government to protect us from foreign enemies? Even if those enemies have resulted from acts or omissions of said government?
    Did you watch the video?
    There is no spoon.

  15. #13
    I fear that the consensus from legislators and the American people would be that building a wall is a better solution than ending entitlements, less government, or any practical liberty ideal. If push came to shove most people would want the wall over liberty and or less government.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    I fear that the consensus from legislators and the American people would be that building a wall is a better solution than ending entitlements, less government, or any practical liberty ideal. If push came to shove most people would want the wall over liberty and or less government.
    Including some on this board. Which is why we need to endorse the site mission and change the tone in this country.

    Welfare is bad, freedom to travel freely, right to private property and retaining and not disrupting companies which employ people are good.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Including some on this board. Which is why we need to endorse the site mission and change the tone in this country.

    Welfare is bad, freedom to travel freely, right to private property and retaining and not disrupting companies which employ people are good.
    The problem is that society will not go for liberty. The problem with this board is that no matter how good a concept it is never pure or good enough or we judge/dismiss the good a person offers for a bad stance. Let's face it, Ron Paul is wrong on some things yet he is the standard we use. There is no such thing as pure snow.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The problem is that society will not go for liberty. The problem with this board is that no matter how good a concept it is never pure or good enough or we judge/dismiss the good a person offers for a bad stance. Let's face it, Ron Paul is wrong on some things yet he is the standard we use. There is no such thing as pure snow.
    I have always found this truth ironic for supposed "individualists". Been watching it for years now and it is perplexing. Nice to see I am not the only one who has made this real world observation.



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  20. #17
    I listen to NPR on my commute (I guess I love to be infuriated ).

    The mayor of El Paso was interviewed. https://www.npr.org/2019/03/28/70750...er-with-mexico

    One of the interesting things that he claimed has been pretty much ignored by NPR, but I found it interesting, fwiw (MARGO is the mayor, GREENE is the interviewer):

    MARGO: Well, the problem is the numbers that he referred to. You know, in fiscal year 2017, we had 12,000 come north from Central America that affected it in our fiscal year for El Paso. In '18, we had 18,000. Our fiscal year is 9-1 to 8-31. Since 9-1 of last year, to date, we've had 50,000 in El Paso. And it's all as a result of - excuse me - the laws. CBP's doing all they can do. ICE is doing all they can do. But people don't understand that there wasn't - the Trafficking Victim Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008...

    GREENE: OK.

    MARGO: ...Which was a magnanimous gesture on behalf of our nation because of Central American youth and unaccompanied minors coming through Mexico up to the United States - we were concerned about the Mexican cartels grabbing these children or young people and turning them into drug mules or human trafficking that we made it easier to have asylum declared at our borders from Central America. The irony of it is that this law doesn't apply to Mexico. That's why we're not having the Mexicans come across.

    GREENE: But you're saying that that law is what's leading to these big numbers that we're seeing today?

    MARGO: I can guarantee it is. It is. It makes it too easy to...

    GREENE: What is the solution?

    MARGO: ...Except for asylum.

    GREENE: What is the solution? What are you calling on Congress to do, if that's who you're pointing the finger at here?

    MARGO: Well, they've got to revamp this law and the whole immigration process. They've not done anything for 30 years. There's been no intestinal fortitude exhibited on either side of the aisle, and our president needs to take the lead there. That's the humanitarian crisis, is changing the law. That's the problem.

    GREENE: Can I just ask you - I mean, one person who has thought about this, the border, a lot is President Trump. And he just sent out a tweet just a few minutes ago. I mean, he said Mexico is doing nothing to help stop the flow of immigrants, that they're all talk and no action, and he says may close the southern border, exclamation point. Would that be helpful?

    MARGO: From my vantage point, no. We have a hundred billion-plus in trade back and forth in imports and exports. We have six of the 28 bridges that cross from Texas to Mexico. They're taking people off our bridges. The wait time - we have 23,000 legal pedestrians that come north every day. We've got 13 million vehicles that come north every year. It affects us all the way around, from commerce - and the wait times on the bridges are approaching two hours. That's an environmental issue, while cars are just sitting there idling. It's a major problem. But the issue is not just Mexico and whatever they're doing. The issue is the lack of action by our Congress to deal with this.
    One note: I think the transcription of "...Except for asylum" should be "...accept for asylum."

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The problem is that society will not go for liberty. The problem with this board is that no matter how good a concept it is never pure or good enough or we judge/dismiss the good a person offers for a bad stance. Let's face it, Ron Paul is wrong on some things yet he is the standard we use. There is no such thing as pure snow.
    On the video, Ron says his thoughts on this are far from perfect BUT they do support a liberty perspective. He also shows how the gov has been doing the same thing over & over- getting the same results while always expecting a difference- definitely Einstein's definition of insanity.

    Getting rid of entitlements is absolutely the right thing & would take care of most of the immigration problems. Our problem is that gov will not make itself smaller & stay out of people's lives- at least not w/o a big pushback from Americans.

    Unfortunately everyone is pretty much in The Matrix and many want to stay there.
    Last edited by Ender; 04-10-2019 at 11:16 AM.
    There is no spoon.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    On the video, Ron says his thoughts on this are far from perfect BUT they do support a liberty perspective. He also shows how the gov has been doing the same thing over & over- getting the same results while always expecting a difference- definitely Einstein's definition of insanity.

    Getting rid of entitlements is absolutely the right thing & would take care of most of the immigration problems. Our problem is that gov will not make itself smaller & stay out of people's lives- at least not w/o a big pushback from Americans.

    Unfortunately everyone is pretty much in The Matrix and many want to stay there.
    The unfortunate reality of the bigger picture...



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