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Thread: The new Jeep Gladiator and the death of the American Sedan

  1. #1

    The new Jeep Gladiator and the death of the American Sedan

    In Name . . . But Not in Price

    https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2019...-not-in-price/

    By eric - April 2, 201916455

    Jeep is bringing back the Gladiator – in name and spirit.

    But not, alas, in price.

    The resurrected Jeep pick-up (four doors this time rather than two – and a short rather than full-sized bed, as the original had) will be built off the existing Wrangler four-door and like its donor – and its ancestor – will be thoroughly Jeep. Meaning thoroughly capable. It will not be a light-duty “crossover” based on a front-wheel-drive passenger car. It will have ultra-rugged underpinnings and real four-wheel-drive, with a two-speed transfer case and Low range gearing.

    Hubba hubba.

    If you can afford it.

    Jeep announced the other day that the new Gladiator will start at $37,040. A Rubicon will sticker for ten grand more and – Jeep says – a “fully loaded” Gladiator Rubicon will crest $60,000.

    It takes the breath away.

    The original 1962 Gladiator stickered for just over $1,900 – equivalent, in today’s Weimarian-inflated dollars to just over $16,000 if the same vehicle were offered for sale today.


    Of course, such vehicles aren’t available today, partially because Uncle. No, entirely because Uncle.

    The reason the new Gladiator costs what it does is because Jeep needs to make money on the thing – because of all the money Jeep’s parent company, FiatChrysler, isn’t making selling cars.

    And not just Jeep, either.

    It is no longer profitable to sell cars in general – because people in general aren’t buying them. And they aren’t buying cars anymore because most of them have been Uncle-ized into functional uselessness by federal fatwas, most especially those demanding 30-plus MPGs at the pump and successful passing of myriad crash tests, to demonstrate how saaaaaaaaaaaaaafe they are.

    Americans once bought cars – almost exclusively.

    Very few of them bought trucks – as the original Gladiator was – and no one bought “SUVs” or “crossovers” because such things didn’t exist.

    There were a few 4x4s, models like the Jeep Willys and CJ, the International Scout, Toyota Land Cruiser and the original Ford Bronco – but these were as mass market then as an S-Class Mercedes is today. You saw one every now and then – usually in the woods, out in a field.

    They were not seen commuting.

    This was because they were 4x4s. Rough, rugged things designed to deal with conditions that would break cars. They were also very unlike cars, which even back then tended to have carpet and other luxuries usually lacking in a 4×4 – which had exposed metal floorpans, easier to hose out the insides.

    This was sensible, horses-for-courses policy. Many families had a car and a 4×4, to use for weekend forays, Boy Scout hauling and such.

    Along came Uncle.

    He insisted American cars achieve close to 30 MPG – rising, ever since – and meet M1 Abrams standards of impact-absorbing capacity. This political fatwa’ing created an engineering dilemma, since M1 Abrams tanks tend to be heavy and thus not capable of going 30 miles on a gallon of gasoline.

    Solution? Make cars smaller – which they have been, ever since. No more full-size sedans like they used to make ’em, nor the even fuller-sized wagons that were based on them.

    Sedans seat five now, rather than six (or nine, as old wagons were able to) and have tiny (by historical standards) trunks.

    Almost all of them are built on front-wheel-drive layouts and have four or six-cylinder engines. Almost none have V8s – or are built on a rear-drive layout – which renders them fine for commuting but useless for pulling a heavy trailer.

    Americans gradually began to turn away from cars as the federal fatwa’ing caused them to be downsized and today cars are on the precipice of extinction in favor of what are styled crossovers and SUVs, which have the room (and capability) which cars used to offer but no longer do.

    Even once-best-selling cars like the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord are slipping on the proverbial banana peel – because they are just too small – and not very useful – which they are because of Uncle’s fatwas.

    Let’s look at some stats.

    In 1970, a Camry-equivalent – a family sedan of that era – was the Chevy Chevelle/Malibu sedan. It was 201.1 inches long and could accommodate six people in its two rows of three-across seating. If featured body-on-frame construction, which made pulling a 5,000-plus pound trailer viable – and offered V8s all the way up to 454 cubic inches.

    The trunk was enormous, too.

    The 2019 Camry is a much smaller car, about a foot shorter overall and only seats five. It is built on a unibody/front-wheel-drive layout, which limits what it can pull. Its available V6 is very powerful – more powerful than the Chevy’s big-block V8 – but the car is much less capable.

    And it is typical of today’s cars.

    They are thus less practical and so harder to sell – and as a result, there is less money to be made selling them. The profit margin on the sale of a typical new car is so little – about 3 percent, net – it’s hardly worth selling them. Which is why GM and Ford have decided to stop selling them almost entirely.

    Toyota and Honda and the rest may follow, too.

    Back to Jeep.

    That is where the money is.

    Jeep – and Ram trucks, which sells similar vehicles; i.e., not puny passenger cars – is the bread and butter of FiatChrysler, just as the F-150 and Expedition are where Ford makes money and the Chevy Tahoe and derivatives where GM makes its money.

    Double digit profit margins.

    The money made on the sale of these vehicles makes up for the money passenger cars aren’t making.

    Which brings us back to Gladiator – and not just Gladiator. Note that the Wrangler it’s based on isn’t a cheap date, either. It’s almost $30,000 to start. Try and by a new 1500 truck with a V8 and 4WD for less than that.

    Good luck.

    So, the deal is, we’re being mulcted indirectly by Uncle – via Jeep, et al – to make up the compliance costs imposed on cars by Uncle. The car industry’s lifeblood is the truck/SUV, so they sink their fangs deep and drink hearty.

    It is why there is no longer such a thing as a $16,000 Gladiator – or even a $26,000 one.

    The money has to be made up somewhere.

    Here’s looking at you, kid.



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  3. #2

  4. #3
    yeah, im the target demographic and was looking into these, but think I will pass.

    but as to your interests AF, Jeep does have a Version of the gladiator coming out next year with a turbo diesel engine.

  5. #4

  6. #5
    the Chevy Tahoe and derivatives where GM makes its money.
    No kidding. Chevy is doing a good job in the SUV/Crossover arena. Equinox, Traverse, Tahoe take your pick. Go big with a Suburban or go sporty with the new Blazer.

    None will be inexpensive. Tahoe starts at $50k + taxes. Top of the line and it’s $80k.
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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    No kidding. Chevy is doing a good job in the SUV/Crossover arena. Equinox, Traverse, Tahoe take your pick. Go big with a Suburban or go sporty with the new Blazer.

    None will be inexpensive. Tahoe starts at $50k + taxes. Top of the line and it’s $80k.
    Buy used.
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  8. #7

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Thanks, looks like 1947 , but I guess that's selling now days.
    There are so many better looking crew cabs imv.........

    I would much rather have the actual '47 'whatever' , any make/model.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    It is why there is no longer such a thing as a $16,000 Gladiator – or even a $26,000 one.
    After I balked at the price of the gladiator, I went and did a quick price check on the new Ford Ranger which has a base price about $10k less. But as soon as you add things that come stock on the bottom of the line gladiator onto the bottom of the line ranger (eg: full size doors, 4wd), it pretty much is up to the same price.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    After I balked at the price of the gladiator, I went and did a quick price check on the new Ford Ranger which has a base price about $10k less. But as soon as you add things that come stock on the bottom of the line gladiator onto the bottom of the line ranger (eg: full size doors, 4wd), it pretty much is up to the same price.
    Pretty soon I am going to need to replace one at some point . I have been looking at , say three yr old F 150 4X4 extended cabs and think I can still get another one of those under 20K like I did when I bought one in 2011 ( found a low mileage , one owner for about 17k or about half the new price in '04) 2004 . Thats about as much as I am willing to do . If they could turn that Jeep out for that I would be interested . I got muh roll of Weimar money.
    Do something Danke

  13. #11
    Last summer I bought one of these full loaded for $6000, no rust 2003 with 118,000 miles:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2003-chevrolet-suburban 1500-rearside_ctsu103b.jpg 
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ID:	6366

    A brand new one would be close to $60,000.

    I don't drive much, $#@!, I'm saving a lot of money on insurance to over a new vehicle. I may be able to afford to buy the Injun some whiskey now.
    Last edited by Danke; 04-02-2019 at 05:24 PM.
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  14. #12
    Bourbon for Oyarde . Hell yeah .
    Do something Danke

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Last summer I bought one of these full loaded for $6000, no rust 2003 with 118,000 miles:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2003-chevrolet-suburban 1500-rearside_ctsu103b.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	30.2 KB 
ID:	6366

    A brand new one would be close to $60,000.

    I don't drive much, $#@!, I'm saving a lot of money on insurance to over a new vehicle. I may be able to afford to buy the Injun some whiskey now.
    I have a jeep Cherokee , so no hate for jeep, but I'd rather have this Suburban or Yukon x's 1000 than the 'Gladiator' , no
    question about it.

  16. #14
    Sedans seat five now, rather than six (or nine, as old wagons were able to) and have tiny (by historical standards) trunks.
    I recently was in the market for an automobile for my wife. She was a stickler for a sedan....didn't want a truck, SUV, and I wasn't gonna buy a crossover. We have 3 kids....and maybe we'll have more who knows, but I was gonna find a six seater or I wasnt buying a sedan. I combed through East Texas and finally found an 2010 impala that had a bench seat in the front.

    I miss bench seats being more common. Plus I miss station wagons. I'd buy the heck out of a station wagon, problem is modern station wagons only seat 5. Why does everything seat 5? Its hard to even find a pickup past 2015 that seats 6.
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  17. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    I recently was in the market for an automobile for my wife. She was a stickler for a sedan....didn't want a truck, SUV, and I wasn't gonna buy a crossover. We have 3 kids....and maybe we'll have more who knows, but I was gonna find a six seater or I wasnt buying a sedan. I combed through East Texas and finally found an 2010 impala that had a bench seat in the front.

    I miss bench seats being more common. Plus I miss station wagons. I'd buy the heck out of a station wagon, problem is modern station wagons only seat 5. Why does everything seat 5? Its hard to even find a pickup past 2015 that seats 6.
    They don't want you to have more kids.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Last summer I bought one of these full loaded for $6000, no rust 2003 with 118,000 miles:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2003-chevrolet-suburban 1500-rearside_ctsu103b.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	30.2 KB 
ID:	6366

    A brand new one would be close to $60,000.

    I don't drive much, $#@!, I'm saving a lot of money on insurance to over a new vehicle. I may be able to afford to buy the Injun some whiskey now.
    Oh hell, what about me?

    Don't be such a skinflint, United pays top dollar.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Oh hell, what about me?

    Don't be such a skinflint, United pays top dollar.
    Well, it does have third row seating....OK.
    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    I recently was in the market for an automobile for my wife. She was a stickler for a sedan....didn't want a truck, SUV, and I wasn't gonna buy a crossover. We have 3 kids....and maybe we'll have more who knows, but I was gonna find a six seater or I wasnt buying a sedan. I combed through East Texas and finally found an 2010 impala that had a bench seat in the front.

    I miss bench seats being more common. Plus I miss station wagons. I'd buy the heck out of a station wagon, problem is modern station wagons only seat 5. Why does everything seat 5? Its hard to even find a pickup past 2015 that seats 6.
    Uncle Sucker...again.

    Anti whiplash and head restraint safeeeeetteeeee fatwas on front seats limit/prohibit a low slung three person bench seat.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    I have a jeep Cherokee , so no hate for jeep, but I'd rather have this Suburban or Yukon x's 1000 than the 'Gladiator' , no
    question about it.
    Cherokee



    Or "Cherokee"?



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  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by fedupinmo View Post
    Cherokee



    Or "Cherokee"?



    I have the bottom one , but it's not red, and I have different sun glasses.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    I have the bottom one , but it's not red, and I have different sun glasses.
    I have one too, 97. I really like my XJ.


  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    I have one too, 97. I really like my XJ.

    Nice, I've always like those, still do.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Nice, I've always like those, still do.
    Thank you, Simple and easy to work on. they are pretty indestructible with the time proven inline 6.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    Thank you, Simple and easy to work on. they are pretty indestructible with the time proven inline 6.
    I really liked that inline 6. Loads of torque and with the short gear ratio, I took many a little sporty rides off the line leaving em eating my dust. Sure, they could easily overtake in longer distance but not on take off.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I really liked that inline 6. Loads of torque and with the short gear ratio, I took many a little sporty rides off the line leaving em eating my dust. Sure, they could easily overtake in longer distance but not on take off.
    They are definitely quick off the line and midrange. But more important as you say is the torque, they are little tractors. I can pull my loaded car trailer as well as with my truck. That particular 6 design has a long history that evolved from Hudson, Nash and AMC before it was Chrysler.

  30. #26
    We are past grandchild capacity in our vehicle. Now that the oldest is 12 and can sit in front, I can carry 4, but not the baby. Or another adult. If we ever move closer to them, we would probably sell one car and buy a minivan to hold them all. I’m not turning loose of my 06 Honda CR-V until they pry the keys from my cold, dead fingers.
    Do something Dodgers.



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