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Thread: R.P. on animal cruelty?

  1. #1

    R.P. on animal cruelty?

    As I've been trying to bring people into the Paul camaign, I've found a lot of online-activists who are about ending animal cruelty. I want to know if Dr. Paul has an opinion on this. At first I presumed from a libertarian point, he might not even care, but I really don't think Dr. Paul is that kind of person.

    If anyone can help me, it might allow me to bring in some new web supporters. We need everyone we can get. Thanks!
    "One thing at a time, is my motto - and just play that thing for all it is worth, even if it's only two pair and a jack."
    Mark Twain

    # of "undesireables" exterminated by Nazi Germany: 11,000,000. / # of Soviet citizens purged by Stalin: 40-60,000,000. / # of Chinese killed in Mao Tse-Dong's Revolutions: 70-80,000,000. / Living in Freedom: Priceless.

    R[ƎVO˩]UTION!



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  3. #2
    Crimes of violence = State issue

  4. #3

  5. #4
    I am not an expert on the Constitution but ROn Paul's personality will mean he will stand up virgoursly against animal cruelty. And he will use the full extend of the powers given by the Constitution and by congress to prevent animal cruelty across the nation.

    Where his powers are limited and the States are able to rule, Ron Paul will go further and use politics to seek to guide the States towards the right behaviour.

    That is wisdom. Currently the stance is to just impose everything willy nilly on the States.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by freedom-maniac View Post
    As I've been trying to bring people into the Paul camaign, I've found a lot of online-activists who are about ending animal cruelty. I want to know if Dr. Paul has an opinion on this. At first I presumed from a libertarian point, he might not even care, but I really don't think Dr. Paul is that kind of person.

    If anyone can help me, it might allow me to bring in some new web supporters. We need everyone we can get. Thanks!
    States decide.

  7. #6
    Not in the constitution.
    Cheers,
    mark...




  8. #7
    I like my animals on my plate. Ron Paul, being a hunter, I'm sure he does too.

  9. #8



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  11. #9
    um animals don't have rights. Animal 'cruelty' may be disgusting but it isn't a violation of anyone's rights. (Unless of course someone is harming your animals)
    "It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance." - Murray N. Rothbard

  12. #10
    Is there a story behind that picture?
    Ron Paul's best political writing? (link)

    "The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
    -Robert A. Heinlein

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Is there a story behind that picture?
    Isn't it obvious? The woman's pet deer got sick after eating Tide laundry detergent.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by freedom-maniac View Post
    At first I presumed from a libertarian point, he might not even care, but I really don't think Dr. Paul is that kind of person.
    Your assertion that the libertarian viewpoint is uncaring is inaccurate. It can be argued that the libertarian viewpoint is the only caring one, because it takes into consideration all of the effects of a decision, not just the end goal in a vacuum. Libertarians do not subscribe to an uncaring philosophy.

    The Constitution doesn't grant the federal government the authority to legislate animal cruelty. This is up to the states, and it is therefore up to the people within each state to pressure their local governments into adopting the policies about animal cruelty that they wish to promote.

  15. #13
    Whats he doing ,trying to give first aid. Looks like he's feeling for a pulse.

  16. #14

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by murrayrothbard View Post
    um animals don't have rights. Animal 'cruelty' may be disgusting but it isn't a violation of anyone's rights. (Unless of course someone is harming your animals)
    This is an opinion in the same way someone saying "interest rate cuts are good, they help the stock market" is. A lot of people do think that animals have some rights, in many cases people believe they have God-given rights just as people may have. This is debatable, but you shouldn't dismiss it out of hand and be one of those types of people we constantly deal with as Ron Paul supporters.

    As a girl who supports both Ron Paul AND animal rights, I've noticed that many of the libertarian-minded girls who support Ron Paul are vegetarian, vegan, or supportive of animal rights. Liv the Ron Paul Girl is a vegan, as is Vegan Girl from vegangirl.com, who supports Ron Paul.

    Check out what Vegan Girl had to say about why she supports the good doctor over other people like Dennis Kucinich (who is vegan):
    http://vegangirl.com/a-vegans-case-for-ron-paul.html

    ---------------------
    Libertarian Girl
    http://www.libertariangirl.com

  18. #16
    What issue are we speaking of here? Livestock, pets, or wild animals?
    If it is livestock, then it is a property issue, and no other. Those that own property tend to care for it in best interest, as this is what gives them greatest profit.
    When Humans become more palatable, I may consider them, but this is unlikely...
    If there's a New Way, I'll be the First in line...It better work this time!...Megadeth



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  20. #17
    There's hunting, and then there's animal cruelty. I'm sure Paul is fine with laws against the latter, if they're not federal (unless the Constitution was changed for some unlikely reason to allow for it). I know I am.

    Hell, even Paul's fellow paleocon Pat Buchanan is apparently sympathetic to animal rights: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Buc...Animal_welfare

  21. #18
    All those laughing about animal rights disappoint me. I don't think you have to be a vegetarian to be pro-animal rights. Animals are living creatures that feel pain and the indifference for unethical treatment of animals I liken to the indifference some felt for slaves a long time ago. Not that slaves and animals are equivalent...

    As has been said many times, though, this should be a state issue, not a federal issue.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by PennCustom4RP View Post
    What issue are we speaking of here? Livestock, pets, or wild animals?
    If it is livestock, then it is a property issue, and no other. Those that own property tend to care for it in best interest, as this is what gives them greatest profit.
    When Humans become more palatable, I may consider them, but this is unlikely...
    you won't win over the vegan/ar vote by voicing your opinion.

    Leave your personal opinion out of it, unless you are going to say something positive and empathetic. I don't believe RP has made any statements on the matter. We should tell people that and drop it, or offer to check with HQ.


    To an AR advocate, cruelty is cruelty regardless of when or where it occurs. And if you believe livestock is treated well, fairly, or humanely, you are VERY much mistaken. Factory farms are generally not great, and some are absolutely horrendous.

    And if killing or otherwise abusing a domesticated animal (ie: a dog) is a crime, regardless of ownership, should the same not apply to other animals?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by vegetarianrpfan View Post
    This is an opinion in the same way someone saying "interest rate cuts are good, they help the stock market" is. A lot of people do think that animals have some rights, in many cases people believe they have God-given rights just as people may have. This is debatable, but you shouldn't dismiss it out of hand and be one of those types of people we constantly deal with as Ron Paul supporters.

    As a girl who supports both Ron Paul AND animal rights, I've noticed that many of the libertarian-minded girls who support Ron Paul are vegetarian, vegan, or supportive of animal rights. Liv the Ron Paul Girl is a vegan, as is Vegan Girl from vegangirl.com, who supports Ron Paul.

    Check out what Vegan Girl had to say about why she supports the good doctor over other people like Dennis Kucinich (who is vegan):
    http://vegangirl.com/a-vegans-case-for-ron-paul.html

    ---------------------
    Libertarian Girl
    http://www.libertariangirl.com
    Thank you! Do you mind if I quote you! Many of the people I've come across are vegans too, and I believe they might be more supportive of R.P. by hearing it from another vegetarian.
    "One thing at a time, is my motto - and just play that thing for all it is worth, even if it's only two pair and a jack."
    Mark Twain

    # of "undesireables" exterminated by Nazi Germany: 11,000,000. / # of Soviet citizens purged by Stalin: 40-60,000,000. / # of Chinese killed in Mao Tse-Dong's Revolutions: 70-80,000,000. / Living in Freedom: Priceless.

    R[ƎVO˩]UTION!

  24. #21
    I understand the whole state's rights and property rights, but on a moral level, animal cruelty is wrong and everyone should work towards speaking for animals who can't speak for themselves like unborn babies cannot speak for themselves.

    I don't agree with PETA, I think they take it a little too far. But I will never stand by and let animal cruelty go unnoticed and I don't think anyone else should either.

    We with voices should speak for those without.
    Ron Paul For President 2008!
    Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.-Ron Paul
    Christianity-It's a RELATIONSHIP not a RELIGION.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by dmspilot00 View Post
    Isn't it obvious? The woman's pet deer got sick after eating Tide laundry detergent.
    LOL!
    “We’ve always been at war with Eastasia.”

  26. #23
    Someone copy and paste the part of the US Constitution or even one state's constitution that grants an animal rights.

    I don't care how you feel or what your personal convictions are. In the real world, animals do not have rights.

    Pets and livestock are property. Under the US Constitution property owners have rights... not the property.

    If RP were to take an Animal Rights stand then he would lose my vote and my support over that one issue. I would make it my personal goal to let every pet or livestock owner know where he stood from the American Kennel Club to the American Cattleman's Association.

    No one wants to see animals mistreated but you cannot equate them to people.

    Animals do not think... they do not reason... they do not make decisions. They act on instinct and learned behaviors.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by UnReconstructed View Post
    Someone copy and paste the part of the US Constitution or even one state's constitution that grants an animal rights.

    I don't care how you feel or what your personal convictions are. In the real world, animals do not have rights.

    Pets and livestock are property. Under the US Constitution property owners have rights... not the property.

    If RP were to take an Animal Rights stand then he would lose my vote and my support over that one issue. I would make it my personal goal to let every pet or livestock owner know where he stood from the American Kennel Club to the American Cattleman's Association.

    No one wants to see animals mistreated but you cannot equate them to people.

    Animals do not think... they do not reason... they do not make decisions. They act on instinct and learned behaviors.
    I'm not saying treat them as equals to people.

    You don't have to post a copy of the Constitution, I've understood every part of it since 4th grade. I know what the Constitution says, believe me, and I never said there should be special laws on the federal level, but as people we should understand that this does happen and we should try to stop it.

    But hey, if you could look into a dying dog's eyes after he's been bludgeoned almost to death and see nothing wrong with it, that's you.

    I am not advocating special laws or to put animals above humans, which is clear in my post, but to me, saying you don't care is heartless.

    I'm just glad there are people out there in this world that take their own time and money and put efforts to speak for the speechless.

    Oh, and animals do think, they feel, and they know what loyalty and love is.
    Ron Paul For President 2008!
    Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.-Ron Paul
    Christianity-It's a RELATIONSHIP not a RELIGION.



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  29. #25
    Freedom Maniac: I agree w/ you 100%. Animal welfare/rights are extremely important to me. I do plan to vote for RP but am concerned that I can't find anything he's written or a quote even on his stand re: animals. I am libertarian in my political views but do struggle w/ the lack of concern for animals that most independent-minded folks seem to have. I think it goes w/o saying that freedom for humans is the first priority but people that feel such indifference toward animal cruelty/neglect is disturbing.

  30. #26
    I'm on the vanguard of the new political movement that's sweeping the nation:

    ANIMAL RESPONSIBILITIES!

    Yes, animals have rights and those who are needlessly cruel to them should be strung up with a long rope and a tall tree. But when was the last time that your Schnauzer washed a load of dishes or your Persian cat held down a job to help pay for her Little Friskies? Yes, Animal Responsibilities is the coming thing - equal treatment for ALL!

  31. #27
    lol animal cruelty. Seriously? That's an issue? It's bad, done. What do you think he's going to do, endorse it? There are way bigger issues; War, the dying Economy, the worthless currency, NAU, NAFTA Super Highway, etc.
    Atheists for Ron Paul!

    "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"
    Written by George Washington Signed by John Adams

  32. #28

  33. #29
    animal rights is $#@!ing stupid. Animals = food

  34. #30
    This issue is akin to the pro-life, pro-choice debate. It is, in fact, the *same* issue when you get right down to the fundamental issue: What are rights, and who has them?

    I believe Paul would support this being a state issue.

    Personally, I love animals and abhor animal cruelty. I do not, however, believe that animals have rights, nor should they be legally protected entities.

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