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Thread: Italian protests over men cleared of rape because woman was 'too masculine'

  1. #1

    Italian protests over men cleared of rape because woman was 'too masculine'

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-too-masculine

    11 Mar 2019

    About 200 people protested outside a court of appeal in the Italian city of Ancona after it was revealed that two men were cleared of rape charges partly because the alleged victim looked “too masculine” to be a target of attraction.

    The reasons behind the 2017 ruling came to light only on Friday, when Italy’s highest appeal court scrapped the lower court’s verdict and ordered a retrial.

    The men had been convicted of raping a woman of Peruvian origin, who was 22 at the time of the attack in 2015, by a court of first instance in 2016. Her name was not made public under Italian law.

    They were then acquitted by the Ancona appeals court, with the judges’ reasoning document including a passage that said the woman’s story was not credible enough as she resembled a man and was therefore unappealing.

    The judges – who were all female – drew their conclusions from a photograph of the woman and because the defendants said they were not attracted to her, with one registering the victim’s number in his mobile phone under the name “Viking”.

    “I read this sentence in 2017 and that’s why we referred it to the supreme court,” Cinzia Molinaro, the woman’s lawyer, told the Guardian.

    “It was disgusting to read; the judges expressed various reasons for deciding to acquit them, but one was because the [defendants] said they didn’t even like her, because she was ugly. They also wrote that a photograph [of the woman] reflected this.”

    The case will be reheard by a court in Perugia. Molinaro claims the defendants spiked the woman’s drink with drugs after the group went to a bar following an evening class. Doctors said her injuries were consistent with rape and that there was a high level of benzodiazepines in her blood.

    Molinaro said the woman moved back to Peru after being ostracised by the community in Ancona because she reported the men.

    Luisa Rizzitelli, a spokesperson for Rebel Network, the women’s group that organised the Ancona protest, lambasted the judges’ ruling as “medieval”.

    “The worst thing is the cultural message that came from three female judges who acquitted these two men because they decided that it was improbable that they would want to rape someone who looked masculine,” said Rizzitelli.

    “It’s shameful. But to get almost 200 people at the protest was a miracle for Italy – fortunately, it shows that sensitivity towards such topics is becoming stronger.”



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  3. #2
    They were then acquitted by the Ancona appeals court, with the judges’ reasoning document including a passage that said the woman’s story was not credible enough as she resembled a man and was therefore unappealing.

    The judges – who were all female – drew their conclusions from a photograph of the woman and because the defendants said they were not attracted to her,

    What a bunch of sick bitches.
    There is only one kind of freedom and that's individual liberty. Our lives come from our creator
    and our liberty comes from our creator. It has nothing to do with government granting it. -Ron Paul

    RAND 20/20

  4. #3

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    And the Men were from?
    Racist.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    That's what the burka's for...
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
    In Washington you can see them everywhere: the Parasites and baby Stalins sucking the life out of a once-great nation.

  7. #6
    I actually have no problem with this. I have always hated the feminist and rape culture theory that rape is not about sex, that it is about power. Yes, it is about power but it is also a crime of opportunity and sex. I am not a rapist but there are some people I would never consider to rape if I was a rapist. I wouldn't rape someone who I wasn't attracted to, someone who could probably take me down and pound the hell out of me etc etc. Not saying there can never be an incident of a guy raping a butch manly girl, just that the chances of that happening is small.

    “It was disgusting to read; the judges expressed various reasons for deciding to acquit them, but one was because the [defendants] said they didn’t even like her, because she was ugly. They also wrote that a photograph [of the woman] reflected this.”
    But the tabloid trash that is the guardian decided to only tell us on of the reasons. I would like to know the ther reasons why the judges said alleged victim lacked credibility. But yes, no problem with this being one of them.

    DNA evidence anyone?
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fedupinmo View Post
    That's what the burka's for...
    And ofc, u have already convicted the men without any evidence. #metoo
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Racist.
    Sexist
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I have always hated the feminist and rape culture theory that rape is not about sex, that it is about power. Yes, it is about power but it is also a crime of opportunity and sex. I am not a rapist but there are some people I would never consider to rape if I was a rapist.
    But since you are not a rapist; how can you honestly think like a rapist? You are thinking like a normal non-rapist male. Perhaps they think differently and it really is about power? Just saying...

    I guess all we can do is legalize prostitution everywhere and see if rape incidents nosedive, then we'll have some real statistics on the issue.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    But since you are not a rapist; how can you honestly think like a rapist? You are thinking like a normal non-rapist male. Perhaps they think differently and it really is about power? Just saying...

    I guess all we can do is legalize prostitution everywhere and see if rape incidents nosedive, then we'll have some real statistics on the issue.
    I think we are both right. I think there are many kinds of rapists, there are the ones with some power whose main motivation is to lorde over their victims. This is the kind many rape culture advocates want to make you believe is the typical rapist. Another kind is the opportunist regular Joe person who is just like you and me, they think they should be able to get a higher grade of women than he is getting atm or get a woman at all who he is attracted to. This kind of rapist is who I think is the norm for rapist.

    These guys would generally avoid people they consider to be vikings. Just saying......

    And if you legalize prostitution rape rate will drop because the majority of rapists who are regular people would just pay for the sex rather than risk shame and jail time.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Another kind is the opportunist regular Joe person who is just like you and me, they think they should be able to get a higher grade of women than he is getting atm or get a woman at all who he is attracted to...

    And if you legalize prostitution rape rate will drop because the majority of rapists who are regular people would just pay for the sex rather than risk shame and jail time.
    Well, this is an interesting insight into your mind. But you have no call to include specs in any of that. He may not objectify women that way.

    It's not as easy to do as you seem to think for those of us not raised in Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Only Q or a civil war will save us

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    And if you legalize prostitution rape rate will drop because the majority of rapists who are regular people would just pay for the sex rather than risk shame and jail time.
    And the reason rapists don't just pay for sex now is because it's illegal?

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Well, this is an interesting insight into your mind. But you have no call to include specs in any of that. He may not objectify women that way.

    It's not as easy to do as you seem to think for those of us not raised in Africa.
    Its not really that interesting if you asked me. Yea, he may or may not have objectified the alleged victim in that way. This is what I am saying that it is foolish to dimiss the idea that he may have objectified the alleged victim in that way and decided not to rape.

    I have no idea what raised in Africa got to do with any of this, but you can explain a bit further in your reply.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    And the reason rapists don't just pay for sex now is because it's illegal?
    I said rates would drop not disappear. I have seen studies that showed that rape rates reduced with the advent of free and easily accessible porn. This is just common sense and I didn't get this idea because of my upbringing in Africa
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  17. #15
    Hmm. A "regular Joe" rapist?

    okey dokey.
    There is only one kind of freedom and that's individual liberty. Our lives come from our creator
    and our liberty comes from our creator. It has nothing to do with government granting it. -Ron Paul

    RAND 20/20

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    And the reason rapists don't just pay for sex now is because it's illegal?

    Its about opportunity and risk assessment. One might think they can get away with a date rape for example; but not want to take the risk of walking into a cop sting looking for a pro. Of course this is just me guessing, not being a rapist.
    Last edited by specsaregood; 03-14-2019 at 09:37 AM.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PursuePeace View Post
    Hmm. A "regular Joe" rapist?

    okey dokey.
    Also a white supremacist in all likelihood.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    This is what I am saying that it is foolish to dimiss the idea that he may have objectified the alleged victim in that way and decided not to rape.
    Decides not to rape because they don't see the victim as a human?

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I have no idea what raised in Africa got to do with any of this, but you can explain a bit further in your reply.
    I sincerely doubt I can come up with an explanation you'd understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Only Q or a civil war will save us

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Decides not to rape because they don't see the victim as a human?
    You are correct, I don't think objectification in the target needs to occur before a rapist decides to rape. I guess I was trying to say is that it is foolish to dismiss sexual attraction or lack of it in the rapists motivation to rape.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I sincerely doubt I can come up with an explanation you'd understand.
    Try me.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    You are correct, I don't think objectification in the target needs to occur before a rapist decides to rape. I guess I was trying to say is that it is foolish to dismiss sexual attraction or lack of it in the rapists motivation to rape.



    Try me.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I sincerely doubt I can come up with an explanation you'd understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Try me.
    Yes, inquiring minds would like to know.
    Were you being racist? Or culturalist?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Pics or GTFO

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I sincerely doubt I can come up with an explanation you'd understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Try me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, inquiring minds would like to know.
    Were you being racist? Or culturalist?
    We are still waiting, in addition to the clarification about whether you are a racist or a culturalist we would also like to know why you don't think you can come up with an explanation Jules would understand, are you saying you aren't smart enough to explain your position or that he isn't smart enough to understand?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    You called it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We are still waiting, in addition to the clarification about whether you are a racist or a culturalist we would also like to know why you don't think you can come up with an explanation Jules would understand, are you saying you aren't smart enough to explain your position or that he isn't smart enough to understand?
    What do I owe the Nigerian? What do I owe the divide and conquer spamming, bullying shylls?

    Enjoy waiting. I hope you keep your panties in this knot a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Well, all but one person here has that much sense. And he's not contributing a damned thing but childish attacks aimed a different direction.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-15-2019 at 07:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Only Q or a civil war will save us

  30. #26
    So I searched Italian city of Ancona + rape on google and scanned through all 82 of the search result. What I found was very troubling.

    Number one, none of the website had any information about the other reasons the judges came up with to acquit the defendants
    Number two, all the websites used victims and rapists to refer to the alleged victim and accused rapist. Essentially, the reporters have already convicted them even after they were exonerated.

    This is very bad journalism and this should scare people who care about justice which is sadly not always the same as the rule of law. The Italian justice system are going to retry this case and most likely give into the mobs calling for their heads. There are journalists that investigate these sort of crimes and I will wait to get the other side of the case before I make my mind up. Right now I see no reason to believe they committed the crime.

    As if men aren’t raped. As if the elderly aren’t raped, as if the deformed, disabled, transgender people aren’t raped. The three female judges seem to have not learned that rape is not about sexual gratification, it is about power.
    From one of the articles that covered this story. The bolded part is the one that annoys the hell out of me. Its not just about power, there can be many motivations behind rape.



    Diana Davison is one such journalist, I really hope she does her very thorough and alternative invstigation on this case. I want to know what information they are holding back
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  31. #27
    I think theyre taking one of the points they used as a "defense" and are focusing on it?

    They were then acquitted by the Ancona appeals court, with the judges’ reasoning document including a passage that said the woman’s story was not credible enough as she resembled a man and was therefore unappealing.

    The judges – who were all female – drew their conclusions from a photograph of the woman and because the defendants said they were not attracted to her, with one registering the victim’s number in his mobile phone under the name “Viking”.
    But if they actually highlighted this point as a legit defense and part of their reasoning for the acquittal, errrrr....
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    What do I owe the Nigerian? What do I owe the divide and conquer spamming, bullying shylls?

    Enjoy waiting. I hope you keep your panties in this knot a long time.
    You put your foot in your mouth and I am done pointing it out.
    You run around nitpicking anyone you don't like and yet you tried to weasel out of an obvious gaff you made, it was funny.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You put your foot in your mouth and I am done pointing it out.
    You run around nitpicking anyone you don't like and yet you tried to weasel out of an obvious gaff you made, it was funny.
    Uh huh.

    And his attitude is so foreign to normal people I've already seen it in someone's sig.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-15-2019 at 03:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Only Q or a civil war will save us

  34. #30
    I know specs has been waiting with bated breath for me to make my entry into this thread.

    You can all applaud now.










    Done?

    Ok. Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Its not just about power, there can be many motivations behind rape.
    And that would be.. one of the most normal things in the entire world, as Scott Adams would say.

    Some people like coffee because it tastes good. Some people like coffee because it is hot and it warms them up. Some people like coffee because it wakes them up.

    The lesson is that different people liking the same thing for different reasons is one of the most normal things in the world.

    What would be abnormal, imo, is if every rapist had the same exact motivation.

    What amazes me is when someone like myself or jules will say that some rapists rape because they want sex, others come out and say, "how do YOU know what rapists want?"

    It's like, wow, ok.. why not reverse the question on them? If you are so sure that rape is all about "power", and only "power", every single time, and sex has nothing do with it.. is that because YOU are a rapist? Of course not. But in many cases there is something interesting going on there with the power dynamic.

    The thing about the view that all rape is just about "power" and not sex is that it seems that a lot of women tend to latch onto it. I would guess it is probably because it is closer to their realm of understanding. Afterall, a lot of women use sex to control men. So to them, it would be closer to their realm of understanding for men to rape because of power as opposed to sex. Women tend to seek power over men as opposed to sex. Not saying women don't like sex, just that for them it is a dime a dozen, for the most part they can get it whenever they want.

    I think there are men out there who are very damaged and who prefer to hurt women and have sex with them in a very stressful, violent confrontation. There could be a number of reasons for that, likely stemming from childhood trauma.

    But I think it is also likely that in many cases men who commit rape are being opportunistic. Maybe they don't want to have sex with a prostitute because a lot of prostitutes have had sex with hundreds or thousands of men. Maybe they want to have sex with a woman who has had a more normal amount of sex partners. Maybe they have read about so many prostitution stings and ended up seeing the men's photos on the front page of the newspaper and they didn't want to be one of them. Maybe it is because the opportunity is in front of them at the time. Who knows.

    I do think legalized prostitution would make a pretty significant dent in the rape statistics, but rape is already down drastically over the last few decades since porn became widely available.
    Last edited by dannno; 03-15-2019 at 05:30 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

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