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Thread: Justin Amash Votes in Support of Illegal Immigrantís Right To Vote

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    In federal elections? No.

    That's not what this was about.
    Why should they be allowed to vote in any elections?
    It may not be a federal issue but this vote did not attempt to make it one.
    Give me one good reason letting them vote at any level should not be condemned.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Why should they be allowed to vote in any elections?
    It may not be a federal issue but this vote did not attempt to make it one.
    Give me one good reason letting them vote at any level should not be condemned.
    I guess some states wish to allow non-citizens to vote in their local elections.

    If that's what they want, it would probably be covered by the 10th amendment.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    I guess some states wish to allow non-citizens to vote in their local elections.
    But why should that be?
    Is there any justification for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    If that's what they want, it would probably be covered by the 10th amendment.
    Yes, but that doesn't make it right and Congress condemning it isn't a violation of the 10thA.


    It is wrong to allow them to vote at any level and it should be condemned.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But why should that be?
    Is there any justification for it?
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
    I guess the question is, does the Constitution prohibit the States from allowing non-citizens the local vote? If not, then that decision is reserved to the State.
    Yes, but that doesn't make it right and Congress condemning it isn't a violation of the 10thA.


    It is wrong to allow them to vote at any level and it should be condemned.
    Well, if it's none of the business of Congress, they shouldn't have even had to vote on it.



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
    I guess the question is, does the Constitution prohibit the States from allowing non-citizens the local vote? If not, then that decision is reserved to the State.
    That is true but it doesn't make it right.




    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Well, if it's none of the business of Congress, they shouldn't have even had to vote on it.
    Just because it is a power reserved for the states doesn't make it absolutely none of the business of Congress even to express an opinion about, state and local elections select officials who control the voting process in federal elections and allowing foreigners (and even illegals) to vote in them affects their integrity.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That is true but it doesn't make it right.





    Just because it is a power reserved for the states doesn't make it absolutely none of the business of Congress even to express an opinion about, state and local elections select officials who control the voting process in federal elections and allowing foreigners (and even illegals) to vote in them affects their integrity.
    Does seem to pose a problem.

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Does seem to pose a problem.
    Congress does have the power to refuse to seat members and it should consider using that power against states that allow foreigners to vote and against states that allow practices like ballot "harvesting".

    The resolution to condemn this should include a warning that they will do so.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    This thread should be a Thumbs UP on a liberty forum.


    I fully support Justin on this.

    Lately when I speak to people they believe the Fed should control all voting. That is not the way that our system was intended to work. Local Precincts should have control, and if you are concerned about voter fraud, work the precinct yourself.

    As through history, once the people are slowly conditioned, power is moved up the ladder to state then Fed, biometrics and other central control mechanisms will be called for taking power away from the individual/local level.

    Here is Justinís response:



    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/republ...ng-in-america/


    People, please wake up out of your stupor. Justin has among the highest Constitutional Freedom Index Scores of anybody.
    +rep for principle over party and local control instead of federal domination.

    Paul/Amash 2020!
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Congress does have the power to refuse to seat members and it should consider using that power against states that allow foreigners to vote and against states that allow practices like ballot "harvesting".

    The resolution to condemn this should include a warning that they will do so.
    "Condemning is not harassing" -- until it is.

    Look who's affecting the integrity of elections now.

    If you don't like how our country is organized, then find one more in line with your ideas and stop trying to change America. We've gotten along fine with relatively DEcentralized power for our whole history.
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    I guess the question is, does the Constitution prohibit the States from allowing non-citizens the local vote? If not, then that decision is reserved to the State.


    Well, if it's none of the business of Congress, they shouldn't have even had to vote on it.
    Outta rep.
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    "Condemning is not harassing" -- until it is.

    Look who's affecting the integrity of elections now.

    If you don't like how our country is organized, then find one more in line with your ideas and stop trying to change America. We've gotten along fine with relatively DEcentralized power for our whole history.


    Refusing to seat members from states that have destroyed the integrity of their election process isn't harassment either and insisting on election integrity doesn't undermine it.

    If the founders had known that any state would be treasonous enough to allow foreigners and illegals to vote they would have made it a federal power to determine who was allowed to vote and defined it in the Constitution, our system of government is predicated on everyone "playing fair" and if certain states refuse to do so and are allowed to get away with it then the entire system will collapse and be replaced by a system that is less free and more centralized.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post


    If the founders had known that any state would be treasonous enough to allow foreigners and illegals to vote they would have made it a federal power to determine who was allowed to vote and defined it in the Constitution, our system of government is predicated on everyone "playing fair"and if certain states refuse to do so and are allowed to get away with it then the entire system will collapse and be replaced by a system that is less free and more centralized.
    So, to decentralize, we must centralize by voting Yay, violating the 10th.

    This is another instance of standing on principle. But one must first agree with the fundamental, which is read my signature.

    “Illegal” is a recent and statist term. Refer to Walter Block where the Fed (BLM) has no right to land. Land is open and free until homesteaded, at which point it becomes Private Property.

    This is a country of immigrants, who freely traveled to escape their kings and bondage, sought a free life, hoping to own the fruits of their labor.

    Those immigrants bartered, purchased and traded, forming communities, free to vote concerning their own local communities of which they live.

    The problem is not with immigrants; the problem is the Fed, which provides free handouts and Welfare and the destruction of Private Property. Address the actual problem and the rest will resolve on their own.
    Last edited by PAF; 03-14-2019 at 06:52 PM.
    ďThe right to life is the source of all rightsóand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.Ē



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    So, to decentralize, we must centralize by voting Yay, violating the 10th.

    This is another instance of standing on principle. But one must first agree with the fundamental, which is read my signature.

    “Illegal” is a recent and statist term. Refer to Walter Block where the Fed (BLM) has no right to land. Land is open and free until homesteaded, at which point it becomes Private Property.

    This is a country of immigrants, who freely traveled to escape their kings and bondage, sought a free life, hoping to own the fruits of their labor.

    Those immigrants bartered, purchased and traded, forming communities, free to vote concerning their own local communities of which they live.

    The problem is not with immigrants; the problem is the Fed, which provides free handouts and Welfare and the destruction of Private Property. Address the actual problem and the rest will resolve on their own.
    Where is the logic that says foreign nationals should have any right at all to participate
    in our elections.
    So Russia Collusion looks good to you now?

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    So, to decentralize, we must centralize by voting Yay, violating the 10th.
    A yay vote doesn't violate the 10thA and even refusing to seat Congressmen as I suggested wouldn't either because the state would be free to continue to allow foreigners to vote or to set any other voter rules it wanted to.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    This is another instance of standing on principle. But one must first agree with the fundamental, which is read my signature.
    Your "principle" is nonsense, this vote wouldn't have violated the 10thA.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    “Illegal” is a recent and statist term. Refer to Walter Block where the Fed (BLM) has no right to land. Land is open and free until homesteaded, at which point it becomes Private Property.
    Entering our territory in violation of our rules is illegal and it is an invasion, if you prefer the older term then call them invaders, I won't mind.
    Land is free and open TO OUR CITIZENS until homesteaded, it is part of our territory ever since we established our control over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    This is a country of immigrants, who freely traveled to escape their kings and bondage, sought a free life, hoping to own the fruits of their labor.

    Those immigrants bartered, purchased and traded, forming communities, free to vote concerning their own local communities of where they live.

    The problem is not with immigrants; the problem is the Fed, which provides free handouts and Welfare and the destruction of Private Property. Address the actual problem and the rest will resolve on their own.
    Those immigrants came in accordance with our rules at the time and they were closer to our political culture than current immigrants are, and yet they still contributed to a decay of our liberty culture so we tightened our rules about immigration in order t better protect the rights of our citizens.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    ...

    The problem is not with immigrants; the problem is the Fed, which provides free handouts and Welfare and the destruction of Private Property. Address the actual problem and the rest will resolve on their own.

    Why do you insist on changing the topic to Immigrants, the topic is illegals period, has
    nothing to do with 'immigrants' .

  19. #76
    @Swordsmyth

    No, SwordShill. That wasn’t until the Centralist Federalists took over to enslave the people once again, and then began the process of converting people like you, taxing, justifying, establishing “laws” which are not Natural Laws weakly outlined in the Bill of Rights.

    I am no fan of the Constitution, but to abide by the Constitution one must vote it. Justin’s vote was in accordance to the Constitution plain and simple. You just don’t like the outcome is your problem. Because as always, you slant and try to convince to coerce the statist ways.

    By the way - great article on Justin, who has among the highest Constitutional Freedom Scores of anybody, all they had to do was throw Soros’ name around here and there and now everybody wants to oust his ass. Just wonderful. /sarc
    ďThe right to life is the source of all rightsóand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.Ē

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Why do you insist on changing the topic to Immigrants, the topic is illegals period, has
    nothing to do with 'immigrants' .
    I wouldn't have pegged you for the sort that wants to repeal all immigration laws.

    Į\
    _(ツ)_/Į
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    I wouldn't have pegged you for the sort that wants to repeal all immigration laws.

    Į\
    _(ツ)_/Į
    Do you have a clue as to what you are trying to say?

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Why do you insist on changing the topic to Immigrants, the topic is illegals period, has
    nothing to do with 'immigrants' .

    - Rep because you know full well that “illegal” is a recent and statist term which violates everything to do with liberty, NAP and Free Markets.

    Statist forums are that-a-way —->
    ďThe right to life is the source of all rightsóand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.Ē

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    @Swordsmyth

    No, SwordShill. That wasn’t until the Centralist Federalists took over to enslave the people once again, and then began the process of converting people like you, taxing, justifying, establishing “laws” which are not Natural Laws weakly outlined in the Bill of Rights.
    LOL, there were states/colonies with laws before the Constitution and they too would have ended up controlling immigration if the Constitution never existed.


    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I am no fan of the Constitution, but to abide by the Constitution one must vote it. Justin’s vote was in accordance to the Constitution plain and simple. You just don’t like the outcome is your problem. Because as always, you slant and try to convince to coerce the statist ways.
    The Constitution has nothing to do with this, voting to condemn allowing foreigners to vote in no way violates the 10thA.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    By the way - great article on Justin, who has among the highest Constitutional Freedom Scores of anybody, all they had to do was throw Soros’ name around here and there and now everybody wants to oust his ass. Just wonderful. /sarc
    Jeff Flake used to have a record just as good, as long as Amash keeps his record intact I will oppose ousting him but I will continue to point out any time that he is wrong.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    - Rep because you know full well that “illegal” is a recent and statist term which violates everything to do with liberty, NAP and Free Markets.

    Statist forums are that-a-way —->
    That is nonsense.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That is nonsense.

    Oh, and I should just now start believing you. You are funny.
    ďThe right to life is the source of all rightsóand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.Ē

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Oh, and I should just now start believing you. You are funny.
    I don't care what you believe.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    - Rep because you know full well that “illegal” is a recent and statist term which violates everything to do with liberty, NAP and Free Markets.

    Statist forums are that-a-way —->
    NEG REP ?

    You must be kidding me, NEG REP for opinions and fact?

    :facepalm:

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Oh, and I should just now start believing you. You are funny.
    Mr neg rep, what is your favorite COUNTRY that has OPEN BORDERS?

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't care what you believe.
    Ok, here’s what I don’t “believe”, just to appease you. I will tell you what I know:

    Had there not been a “Freedom Index Score” by which to gauge and prove based upon the facts, you would have rebuked every vote Justin ever made. Because he is a freedom fighter like me. And that really chaps your ass ;-)
    ďThe right to life is the source of all rightsóand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.Ē

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Ok, here’s what I don’t “believe”, just to appease you. I will tell you what I know:

    Had there not been a “Freedom Index Score” by which to gauge and prove based upon the facts, you would have rebuked every vote Justin ever made. Because he is a freedom fighter like me. And that really chaps your ass ;-)
    LOL
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    NEG REP ?

    You must be kidding me, NEG REP for opinions and fact?

    :facepalm:

    Read my sig. Really, really think about it. Once you have, try to think how it applies to immigrants, welfare, the Fed, eminent domain, free market, NAP.

    Really, think hard about that. My sig is the foundation, and the solution, to every problem that we are facing.
    ďThe right to life is the source of all rightsóand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.Ē



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Read my sig. Really, really think about it. Once you have, try to think how it applies to immigrants, welfare, the Fed, eminent domain, free market, NAP.

    Really, think hard about that. My sig is the foundation, and the solution, to every problem that we are facing.

    Illegals don't belong here.


    What is your favorite Country with OPEN BORDERS?

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Read my sig. Really, really think about it. Once you have, try to think how it applies to immigrants, welfare, the Fed, eminent domain, free market, NAP.

    Really, think hard about that. My sig is the foundation, and the solution, to every problem that we are facing.
    You can't expect people to have complex philosophical thoughts about what rights are or where they come from. Most people here can't even figure out the freaking etymology of the word, much less apply it to principles.

    All you should expect from that one is "Orange man gooder than Hillary man."
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

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