Rick Perry: Hydrogen is an energy carrier that can unite our Nations abundant energy resources

[Peace Piper]

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Today, the U.S. Department of Energy announced up to $31 million in funding to advance the H2@Scale concept. The focus of H2@Scale is to enable affordable and reliable large-scale hydrogen generation, transport, storage, and utilization in the United States across multiple sectors.

“Hydrogen is an energy carrier that can unite our Nation’s abundant energy resources,” said U.S. Secretary of Energy Rick Perry. “This funding opportunity and the H2@Scale Initiative will help the Department achieve our goals of strengthening energy security, resiliency, and a strong domestic economy.”

By producing hydrogen when power generation exceeds load, electrolyzers can reduce curtailment of renewables and contribute to grid stability. Hydrogen produced from existing baseload (e.g., nuclear power) assets can also be stored, distributed, and used as a fuel for multiple applications. Such applications include transportation, stationary power, process or building heat, and industrial sectors such as steel manufacturing, ammonia production and petroleum refining. Key challenges to the H2@Scale concept include affordability, reliability, and performance of emerging hydrogen and fuel cell technologies.

Topics under this funding announcement to advance H2@Scale include:

Topic 1: Advanced hydrogen storage and infrastructure R&D (up to $9M) including novel materials or hydrogen carriers for transporting and storing hydrogen, and materials for hydrogen infrastructure components.

Topic 2: Innovative concepts for hydrogen production and utilization (up to $12M) including advanced water splitting materials, affordable domestic hydrogen production technologies, co-production of hydrogen for additional sources of revenue, and reversible fuel cell technologies.

Topic 3: H2@Scale Pilot - integrated production, storage, and fueling systems (up to $10M) including innovative approaches that successfully integrate and optimize the complete system encompassing hydrogen production, storage, distribution, and use.

Concept papers are due April 8, 2019 and full applications are due May 29, 2019. More information, application requirements, and instructions can be found on the EERE Funding Opportunity Exchange web site... press release: https://www.energy.gov/articles/depa...dvance-h2scale

[Dr.3D]

Anybody know how efficient it is to convert electricity to hydrogen?

When I was a kid, I used to make hydrogen to fill balloons. I had to use a 12 volt power supply and electrodes in a slightly saline water solution and it took a lot of energy and time. Then I had to pump the hydrogen through desiccant, into a balloon.

Have they found a way to increase the efficiency of electrolysis to the point where this is practical?

[Dr.3D]

LOL, and Rick Perry was the one who wanted to abolish the Department of Energy.

[Stratovarious]

Anybody know how efficient it is to convert electricity to hydrogen?

When I was a kid, I used to make hydrogen to fill balloons. I had to use a 12 volt power supply and electrodes in a slightly saline water solution and it took a lot of energy and time. Then I had to pump the hydrogen through desiccant, into a balloon.

Have they found a way to increase the efficiency of electrolysis to the point where this is practical?

I don't have time to look it up now, but as I remember this is all about Electric Grids,
no practical efficiency unless its Electrical Grid related.
Same blsht , diff day.
Just like Solar, you get to sell it back to the grid , so long as it doesn't benefit you as much as
you're electric bill pays Corporations, to keep you on the grid, so you wind up with 15 or 20% off your
bill, and lose your ass on the infrastructure. net, net, lose, lose.

[dannno]

Anybody know how efficient it is to convert electricity to hydrogen?

When I was a kid, I used to make hydrogen to fill balloons. I had to use a 12 volt power supply and electrodes in a slightly saline water solution and it took a lot of energy and time. Then I had to pump the hydrogen through desiccant, into a balloon.

Have they found a way to increase the efficiency of electrolysis to the point where this is practical?

Wasn't there a video posted here about 10 years ago of some guy in New Jersey who ran his house off of either solar or a combination of wind and solar by converting the excess energy that was produced into hydrogen and stored in a tank so it could be used mainly in the winter when it was cloudy?

[Dr.3D]

Wasn't there a video posted here about 10 years ago of some guy in New Jersey who ran his house off of either solar or a combination of wind and solar by converting the excess energy that was produced into hydrogen and stored in a tank so it could be used mainly in the winter when it was cloudy?

Yes, I remember that. But was what he was doing, efficient to do with the electrical grid? Usually it's a load problem, where there is more produced than being used, but that supply should be regulated to the load to some extent and not be such a problem with power generation facilities.

Sort of like running a generator without a load on it, it uses less fuel to keep it running.

[Stratovarious]

Takes a hell of a lot of electricity to produce hydrogen, inefficient production, super high cost.
Take this video with a grain of salt though, it touts electric as somehow being clean and
renewable, carefully parsing words like 'could' etc,

The fact is , today we do not have Clean electricity in practical quantities, we have coal which
is much better than it was, and we have INSANE NUCLEAR power, Nuclear is where they will
put us , it is not clean.

So far solar, wind, hydro, just aren't efficient and in high enough production to justify the claims
that electrics' and the hydrogen/electrics are derived from a clean grid.
Some day efficiency will come , we are way too far off though to be thinking we are helping
the environment 'today' in some 'practical' way.

[brushfire]

Help him out, Ron!

[jkr]

how would HE know...

[Peace Piper]

Wasn't there a video posted here about 10 years ago of some guy in New Jersey who ran his house off of either solar or a combination of wind and solar by converting the excess energy that was produced into hydrogen and stored in a tank so it could be used mainly in the winter when it was cloudy?

~5 or so years ago

Mike Strizki is his name and he is one of the top hydrogen pioneers in the world.

Here is a good (long) video where he details his system



His website: http://hydrogenhouseproject.org/

The Scientific American article about Mike that introduced his system to the world

Inside the Solar-Hydrogen House: No More Power Bills--Ever

A New Jersey resident generates and stores all the power he needs with solar panels and hydrogen

By David Biello | June 19, 2008

EAST AMWELL, N.J.—Mike Strizki has not paid an electric, oil or gas bill—nor has he spent a nickel to fill up his Mercury Sable—in nearly two years. Instead, the 51-year-old civil engineer makes all the fuel he needs using a system he built in the capacious garage of his home, which employs photovoltaic (PV) panels to turn sunlight into electricity that is harnessed in turn to extract hydrogen from tap water.

Although the device cost $500,000 to construct, and it is unlikely it will ever pay off financially (even with today's skyrocketing oil and gas prices), the civil engineer says it is priceless in terms of what it does buy: freedom from ever paying another heating or electric bill, not to mention keeping a lid on pollution, because water is its only by-product...full article: https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ydrogen-house/

He stores hydrogen made from excess electricity in old propane tanks (@200 PSI) - proving H2 isn't hard to store like many keep saying.

I kept telling a colleague about this guy and finally he got tired of hearing my blather and he went to see him (he lives in the same state). He was blown away and said he now understands why I keep talking about hydrogen. He's having Mike on his radio show and now is an active hydrogen advocate.

Hydrogen is the next big thing around the world. It is energy self sufficiency- every single Ron Paul fan would be a hydrogen advocate too if they knew what hydrogen offered. It is not being discussed much in the US Media, one can only guess why (it is truly disruptive, that's why).

[Peace Piper]

Takes a hell of a lot of electricity to produce hydrogen, inefficient production, super high cost.
Take this video with a grain of salt though, it touts electric as somehow being clean and
renewable, carefully parsing words like 'could' etc,

The fact is , today we do not have Clean electricity in practical quantities, we have coal which
is much better than it was, and we have INSANE NUCLEAR power, Nuclear is where they will
put us , it is not clean.

So far solar, wind, hydro, just aren't efficient and in high enough production to justify the claims
that electrics' and the hydrogen/electrics are derived from a clean grid.
Some day efficiency will come , we are way too far off though to be thinking we are helping
the environment 'today' in some 'practical' way.

First of all, the fact is, "we" (the US) Could have clean electricity but instead of that we drop bombs on wedding parties.

LA TIMES June 2017: California invested heavily in solar power. Now there's so much that other states are sometimes paid to take it

On 14 days during March, Arizona utilities got a gift from California: free solar power.

Well, actually better than free. California produced so much solar power on those days that it paid Arizona to take excess electricity its residents weren’t using to avoid overloading its own power lines.

It happened on eight days in January and nine in February as well. All told, those transactions helped save Arizona electricity customers millions of dollars this year, though grid operators declined to say exactly how much. And California also has paid other states to take power.

The number of days that California dumped its unused solar electricity would have been even higher if the state hadn’t ordered some solar plants to reduce production — even as natural gas power plants, which contribute to greenhouse gas emissions, continued generating electricity... https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-...tricity-solar/

That video is out of date and he doesn't really know about what he is talking about.

Here is a better one by someone who knows EXACTLY what he is talking about because he's been in the Hydrogen Fuel Cell business 20 years. Here he explains what China is doing and why they will dominate the tech very soon, because the Chinese can get things done, unlike present day Americans. Do you think an interstate highway system could be built today? No way. Present day Americans can only watch while their treasury is blown bombing, attacking and invading other nations 8,000 miles away.

This is long but worth every minute - one of the most important hydrogen videos ever made:



Hannover Messe 2019 is only a few weeks away- the biggest Hydrogen Fuel Cell expo in the world. Live streaming from the Tech and Public Forums every day

https://www.h2fc-fair.com/hm18/forum/index.html

Many don't realize- there is already a multi-billion dollar hydrogen business RIGHT NOW.

[jmdrake]

This belongs here.



So does this.



And this.



And this.

[fisharmor]

Takes a hell of a lot of electricity to produce hydrogen, inefficient production, super high cost.
Take this video with a grain of salt though, it touts electric as somehow being clean and
renewable, carefully parsing words like 'could' etc,

The fact is , today we do not have Clean electricity in practical quantities, we have coal which
is much better than it was, and we have INSANE NUCLEAR power, Nuclear is where they will
put us , it is not clean.

So far solar, wind, hydro, just aren't efficient and in high enough production to justify the claims
that electrics' and the hydrogen/electrics are derived from a clean grid.
Some day efficiency will come , we are way too far off though to be thinking we are helping
the environment 'today' in some 'practical' way.

The guy creating those videos is a hardcore leftist. Don't let the production values fool you... And there are a ton of other engineers making videos that don't spout leftist crap that deserve our views a lot more.

[axiomata]

"Hydrogen production is the family of industrial methods for generating hydrogen. Hydrogen is primarily produced by steam reforming of natural gas. Other major sources include naphtha or oil reforming of refinery or other industrial off-gases, and partial oxidation of coal and other hydrocarbons. A small amount is obtained by water electrolysis and other sources."

[Stratovarious]

The guy creating those videos is a hardcore leftist. Don't let the production values fool you... And there are a ton of other engineers making videos that don't spout leftist crap that deserve our views a lot more.

You sound like you don't believe my intentions, show me some real efficiency, all I care about
is truth, lets see something worthwhile.

No one so far has 'fooled' me, including you .

Go , show me something much better than this puissant propaganda , marketing garbage.

[Stratovarious]

This belongs here.



So does this.



And this.



And this.

ionization is another one, I'd love to see this stuff come of age , but not just 'sold' to us 'because' ,
lets get some real green energy , that is efficient.
Of course anyone that comes up with it will probably die in a small plane crash.

[Stratovarious]

Rick Perry, isn't he the one that wanted to mandate Gardasil for boys?

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.theskepticsguide.org/sal...ar-not-so-fast

Salt Water Car? - Not So Fast

The Discovery Channel is still under heavy criticism for their fake documentaries involving sharks that never existed, and mermaids. Their D News YouTube channel is having some credibility issues as well. On a recently posted video, hipster host Julian Huguet gushes over a new car that “runs on salt water.”

After some reasonable background information on the limitations of fossil fuel and current battery technology, Huguet introduces the QUANT e-Sportlimousine concept car, which he claims can run on salt water, producing only water as a byproduct – no carbon emissions. Huguet further explains that while electric cars run on clean electricity, that electricity has to come from somewhere, and in the US it is likely to be a coal burning plant.

This is all correct – but he completely misses a critically important point: the exact same issue exists with the QUANT e-Sportlimousine.

There have been previous claims for engines that can run on salt water or fresh water. These claims are usually based on the electrolysis of water into hydrogen and oxygen, then using that hydrogen as fuel, burning it back with oxygen to make energy and water. The problem with using electrolysis of water as fuel is thermodynamics – it has to take more energy to split the water in the first place then you can possibly get back by burning the hydrogen back with the oxygen.

The QUANT e, however, does not use this method. Rather, it uses nanoflowcell technology. This is essentially a battery that uses salt water solutions to store electrolytes that can undergo reactions to produce electricity.

“Liquid electrolytes circulate through two separate cells in which a “cold burning” takes place, during which oxidation and reduction processes happen in parallel and thereby produce electrical power for the drive train.”

When the nanoflowcell battery is running low, you could just replace the electrolyte fluid to “recharge” the battery in about the same amount of time as filling a tank with gas (although you would have to refill two tanks with 200 liters each). This is an interesting approach, but is not a concept new to the nanoflowcell. The company claims a projected range of 400-600km (250-375 miles). With a respectable range and reasonably fast recharge, this kind of technology could make all electric cars feasible for the general market.

But – Huguet implied that the car would be “running on salt water” and would have an advantage over conventional batteries that have to be powered by coal burning power plants. The electrolyte fluids in the nanoflowcell would also have to be recharged, and this energy would have to come from somewhere (such as a power plant) like any other battery.

While the nanoflowcell is an interesting approach, and we may see cars with this type of battery in production in the future, this technology is not a solution to our energy needs. The salt water electrolyte fluids are not fuel. They are not a source of energy. They are simply an energy storage medium, just like any battery. And that energy has to come from somewhere.

It seems that Discovery needs to invest in better science writers.

https://eluxemagazine.com/homestech/...portlimousine/

The technology behind the performance is called a flow cell battery, and the QUANT is the first automobile to harness it. Flow cell batteries can safely and stably store significant amounts of energy, as much as five times that of lithium-ion batteries.

Here’s how the technology works: A liquid electrolyte (i.e., saltwater) fuel is contained in a pair of 200-litre tanks separated by a membrane. As each container’s fluids–one positively charged and one negatively charged–pass through the membrane, they react with each other, thus generating electricity, up to 600V worth of the stuff. The electricity powers four motors, one for each wheel, offering a maximum output of 680kW and about 920hp. To recharge the car, just swap the used electrolytic fluid for newer stuff, which can be charged outside the vehicle. Two full tanks provide the vehicle with a range of up to 600km.

Two 400 liter tanks will hold 100 gallons of water. That is a very big battery. And that battery still needs charged somehow.

[Dr.3D]

how would HE know...

Well, politicians always have all the answers.

They are so smart, they can violate the laws of physics and get away with it.