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Thread: Rand Paul Introduces ‘BE SAFE’ Act to Fund Border Security

  1. #1

    Rand Paul Introduces ‘BE SAFE’ Act to Fund Border Security

    Rand Paul Introduces ‘BE SAFE’ Act to Fund Border Security
    https://www.paul.senate.gov/news/dr-...order-security
    March 4, 2019

    WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, U.S. Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) introduced the Border Enforcement, Security, And Funding Enhancement (BE SAFE) Act to strengthen border security and improve other aspects of our broken immigration system.

    The legislation would impose a $2,500 border security fee on each new green card issued to fund the construction of new border walls or physical barriers and other immigration-related improvements.

    “As both sides debate the path forward on reforming our immigration system, the BE SAFE Act provides a constitutional answer that guarantees funding for our needs on the border without taking away from other priorities or increasing the burden on American taxpayers,” said Dr. Paul.

    Since 1998, the U.S. government has handed out just over 1 million green cards on average per year. At this level of demand, the BE SAFE Act will generate some $2.5 billion annually in new revenue.

    You can find more details and the entire bill below:

    Dr. Rand Paul’s BE SAFE Act

    Requires each new lawful permanent resident to pay an additional $2,500 fee to U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services (USCIS)

    Establishes a Border Security Enhancement Fund at Treasury

    Directs USCIS to deposit all fees paid under the BE SAFE Act into the Border Security Enhancement Fund

    Authorizes the president to use Border Security Enhancement Fund for certain immigration-related purposes

    Enumerates the authorized uses of funds in the Border Security Enhancement Fund, including: border barriers, fencing or wall construction; enforcement, detention, and removal operations; counter-trafficking; improving ports of entry; reducing visa overstays; conducting oversight of student visa holders, refugees, and asylees; expanding trusted traveler programs; reducing immigration court backlogs; completing a biometric entry-exit system.

    https://www.paul.senate.gov/news/dr-...order-security

    Read Dr. Rand Paul's BE SAFE (Scribd) https://www.scribd.com/document/4010...Act#from_embed



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  3. #2


    Good.

    Does it have the slightest chance of passing though?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
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    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post


    Good.

    Does it have the slightest chance of passing though?
    Probably zero, that's why he should have asked for $10,000. If you can not afford $10K to uncle Sam you probably not going to be a productive resident anyway.
    Last edited by timosman; 03-04-2019 at 09:26 PM.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Valli6 View Post
    Rand Paul Introduces ‘BE SAFE’ Act to Fund Border Security
    https://www.paul.senate.gov/news/dr-...order-security
    Since it involves revenue and spending, it is supposed to originate in the House. That also means it will require two thirds of both houses of Congress to approve it.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-04-2019 at 10:22 PM.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Since it involves revenue and spending, it is supposed to originate in the House.
    Maybe Rand should be more careful after attacking Trump over a less clear cut Constitutional question.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    ...
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 03-04-2019 at 10:18 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    GREEN CARDS?! AmNEsTY!!!1

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Since it involves revenue and spending, it is supposed to originate in the House. That also means it will require two thirds of both houses of Congress to approve it.
    Or somebody in the house can just copy it and submit it.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Maybe Rand should be more careful after attacking Trump over a less clear cut Constitutional question.
    More clear cut? Huh?

    All the House has to do is pass their version of this. Happens all the time. And suddenly--wham!--it's constitutional. Just like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  12. #10
    Two problems I see with this bill are: 1) that it increases federal revenue, and 2) that it increases federal spending.

    However, if it results in issuing enough more Green Cards than would be issued otherwise, that could make up for those problems.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Or somebody in the house can just copy it and submit it.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    More clear cut? Huh?

    All the House has to do is pass their version of this. Happens all the time. And suddenly--wham!--it's constitutional. Just like that.
    It has to ORIGINATE in the House and that is specifically spelled out in the Constitution while the technical arguments against the emergency law and Trump's emergency are NOT.

    As a Senator Rand must get a friend in the House to introduce any legislation like this.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It has to ORIGINATE in the House and that is specifically spelled out in the Constitution while the technical arguments against the emergency law and Trump's emergency are NOT.

    As a Senator Rand must get a friend in the House to introduce any legislation like this.
    A House version of the bill DOES ORIGINATE in the House. It HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, Einstein.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    A House version of the bill DOES ORIGINATE in the House. It HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, Einstein.
    And THIS SENATE VERSION DOESN'T, Einstein.

    Rand is prohibited from introducing legislation like this.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And THIS SENATE VERSION DOESN'T, Einstein.

    Rand is prohibited from introducing legislation like this.
    No.

    What part of this happens all the time are you pretending not to understand?

    Each house originates all its own bills. Any time they both pass identical bills that goes to the Oval Office. But the House still originated the version of it with the House Bill designation number on it.

    If you're going to play gotcha games on topics you don't understand, maybe you should consider not doubling down.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    No.

    What part of this happens all the time are you pretending not to understand?

    Each house originates all its own bills. Any time they both pass identical bills that goes to the Oval Office. But the House still originated the version of it with the House Bill designation number on it.

    If you're going to play gotcha games on topics you don't understand, maybe you should consider not doubling down.
    "It happens all the time" is not an excuse, it is a violation of an explicit prohibition in the Constitution, if Rand wants to attack Trump about a much less clear Constitutional issue then he needs to follow the Constitution better than this.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    "It happens all the time" is not an excuse, it is a violation of an explicit prohibition in the Constitution, if Rand wants to attack Trump about a much less clear Constitutional issue then he needs to follow the Constitution better than this.
    That's just goofy. Of course the Constitution doesn't forbid Senators from dreaming up ways to spend money. None of the Founding Fathers were that stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    That's just goofy. Of course the Constitution doesn't forbid Senators from dreaming up ways to spend money. None of the Founding Fathers were that stupid.
    It forbids them from introducing bills to implement their ideas, they could try to add them as an amendment to a House bill or they could ask the House to act on their ideas or get an individual House member to propose a bill but they may not originate spending and revenue bills in the Senate.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Valli6 View Post
    Rand Paul Introduces ‘BE SAFE’ Act to Fund Border Security
    https://www.paul.senate.gov/news/dr-...order-security

    The legislation would impose a $2,500 border security fee on each new green card issued to fund the construction of new border walls or physical barriers and other immigration-related improvements.
    Rand Paul is a boss! He found a way to do border wall funding and make Mexico pay for it!
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It forbids them from introducing bills to implement their ideas, they could try to add them as an amendment to a House bill or they could ask the House to act on their ideas or get an individual House member to propose a bill but they may not originate spending and revenue bills in the Senate.
    Your Magic 8 Ball is a constitutional scholar now?

    Because you clearly aren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Rand Paul is a boss! He found a way to do border wall funding and make Mexico pay for it!
    LOL

    Rand 2020--Keeping the Promises Trump Couldn't!
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Your Magic 8 Ball is a constitutional scholar now?

    Because you clearly aren't.
    A1S7:
    All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.
    It couldn't be clearer, Rand is violating a very specific provision of the Constitution by introducing this bill in the Senate right after attacking Trump over an unclear and unspecified Constitutional issue.

    I like Rand more than I like Trump and I have defended him against the Rand haters like Collins but this is just stupid.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It couldn't be clearer, Rand is violating a very specific provision of the Constitution by introducing this bill in the Senate right after attacking Trump over an unclear and unspecified Constitutional issue.

    I like Rand more than I like Trump and I have defended him against the Rand haters like Collins but this is just stupid.
    It couldn't be more clear you don't understand, aren't listening, and don't want to understand, why you're dead wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    It couldn't be more clear you don't understand, aren't listening, and don't want to understand, why you're dead wrong.
    You are dead wrong, the Constitution specifies what the Senate may do to Revenue bills and introducing them isn't on the list.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are dead wrong, the Constitution specifies what the Senate may do to Revenue bills and introducing them isn't on the list.
    Been there, explained that.

    Don't know if went in one ear and out the other because you were in a hurry to post your quota of spam, or if you're pretending not to understand in order to libel Rand Paul some more. And don't care.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Rand Paul is a boss! He found a way to do border wall funding and make Mexico pay for it!

    At first I thought 2500 seemed a lot, but the illegals are paying already, and not getting
    guarantees.

    From FOX;

    ''Jul 21, 2014 ... The migrants pay anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000 each for the illegal .... get caught, they're just sent back across the border instead of being ... ''

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bor...ica-is-booming



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Been there, explained that.

    Don't know if went in one ear and out the other because you were in a hurry to post your quota of spam, or if you're pretending not to understand in order to libel Rand Paul some more. And don't care.
    Your explanation is wrong and this is a direct violation of the Constitution.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Maybe Rand should be more careful after attacking Trump over a less clear cut Constitutional question.
    You don't know what the hell you are talking about. This is the text of the origination clause.

    All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

    Here is case law from 1990 on this subject.

    By its terms, the origination clause applies only to bills that raise revenue. However, the fact that a statute produces governmental income is not dispositive. Supreme Court decisions hold that origination clause constraints do not extend to bills that incidentally create revenue if those bills were enacted for purposes other than revenue raising. See, e.g., Millard, 202 U.S. at 436, 26 S.Ct. at 675; Nebeker, 167 U.S. at 202, 17 S.Ct. at 768-69; Norton, 91 U.S. at 569.

    Rand's bill about building a wall. The revenue being raised is incidental to the wall building function. You're just mad your boy Trump didn't think of this first.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 03-05-2019 at 08:57 PM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You don't know what the hell you are talking about. This is the text of the origination clause.

    All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

    Rand followed the part that said "but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as other Bills."
    Propose Amendments.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #28
    I have always thought people should have to buy citizenship. This is just an extension of that. Obviously someone is chirping in Rand's ear that this has long been an idea free market economists have pushed.

    https://bfi.uchicago.edu/news/news/g...ce-immigration

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You don't know what the hell you are talking about. This is the text of the origination clause.

    All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

    Rand followed the part that said "but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as other Bills."

    And LOL that you somehow think Donald Trump usurping the role of congress on allocating funds because he declares a non emergency to be an emergency is in anyway constitutional.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Propose Amendments.
    Correction:

    I wasn't thinking, the Senate may propose a bill to the House but it can't originate one, that means that Rand can draw up a bill and send it to the House but he can't introduce it in the Senate.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Propose Amendments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Correction:

    I wasn't thinking, the Senate may propose a bill to the House but it can't originate one, that means that Rand can draw up a bill and send it to the House but he can't introduce it in the Senate.
    Here is case law from 1990 on this subject.

    https://openjurist.org/863/f2d/654/u...v-munoz-flores

    By its terms, the origination clause applies only to bills that raise revenue. However, the fact that a statute produces governmental income is not dispositive. Supreme Court decisions hold that origination clause constraints do not extend to bills that incidentally create revenue if those bills were enacted for purposes other than revenue raising. See, e.g., Millard, 202 U.S. at 436, 26 S.Ct. at 675; Nebeker, 167 U.S. at 202, 17 S.Ct. at 768-69; Norton, 91 U.S. at 569.


    Rand's bill about building a wall. The revenue being raised is incidental to the wall building function. You're just mad your boy Trump didn't think of this first.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

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