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Thread: Amash: Trump violating our constitutional system with wall order

  1. #1

    Amash: Trump violating our constitutional system with wall order

    Amash: Trump violating our constitutional system with wall order



    Rep. Justin Amash (R-MI) tells CNN's Jake Tapper why he opposes President Donald Trump's declaration of a national emergency at the southern border.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
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  3. #2
    Amash: “If there were an emergency...there would be a lot more consensus.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I’m sure I’ve missed all kinds of stimulating debate on the subject, but these “National Emergencies” declared by the President should be unconstitutional. When we have these edicts outstanding for decades, they are not emergencies in any sense of the word. They are policy with the weight of law. True emergencies should be like war, with a declaration from Congress.

    If this goes to the Supreme Court, the best outcome would be to rule the entire concept unconstitutional, and declare all outstanding POTUS declared “national emergencies” null and void.

    How much leeway the executive branch has to move around funds and fulfill it’s duty as the executive branch may be debatable, but this “emergency declaration” power should definitely lie with Congress, not the POTUS.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  4. #3
    Amash is one of the best. Glad there are still conservatives in there.
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    Amash is one of the best. Glad there are still conservatives in there.

    + Post + Agree + Rep
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Amash: “If there were an emergency...there would be a lot more consensus.”
    LOL

    One side is causing the emergency on purpose.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Although Amash claims to doggedly oppose Trump due to his constitutional bonafides, he was conspicuously silent during the ten occasions in which President Barack Hussein Obama declared emergency measures while Amash served in the U.S. House.

    The Brennan Center of Justice has compiled a list of 59 separate national emergencies that were declared by different presidents from 1978-2018. Obama declared national emergencies in many dubious instances such as to facilitate illicit foreign interventions in Libya and Ukraine – two measures that should be particularly important for a liberty-minded Republican to oppose. Amash was quiet about these declarations made by Obama when his opposition wouldn’t earn him mainstream media praise.
    Amash’s gadfly status and willingness to work against Republicans such as President Trump has earned him a great deal of praise from the liberal media. Michelle Richardson, who works as legislative counsel at the American Civil Liberties Union, refers to Amash as “a game-changer.” After using his connections to the establishment DeVos family that rules the roost in West Michigan to get into the state legislature, he capitalized on the Ron Paul revolution to become a national legislator inheriting much of the former Texas Congressman’s cult following. In the age of Trump, Amash has re-invented himself into the Jeff Flake of the House who is even open to Democrat-led efforts of impeachment.
    Amash also received liberal acclaim when he helped vote down an amendment in 2017 stating that “[f]unds available to the Department of Defense may not be used to provide medical treatment (other than mental health treatment) related to gender transition to a person entitled to medical care.” In this instance, Amash showed that he will abandon his free market principles when it comes time to virtue-signal for leftists.
    “Those who serve in our Armed Forces deserve the best medical care. One question we must ask and answer, with the aid of the medical community, is which treatments are medically necessary and which are simply elective. With respect to transgender persons, we should focus on the best science, not the political or philosophical opinions of partisans,” Amash said at the time.

    More at: https://bigleaguepolitics.com/justin...n-emergencies/

    He also played collaborator with the Russiagate witch hunters at the Cohen hearing.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    @Swordsmyth


    Ron Paul cult:

    Justin Amash Cumulative Freedom Index Score: 94%

    Justin, Rand, Tom - the 3 Amigos, we need more like them and less shills :-)
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    @Swordsmyth


    Ron Paul cult:

    Justin Amash Cumulative Freedom Index Score: 94%

    Justin, Rand, Tom - the 3 Amigos, we need more like them and less shills :-)
    Amash does have a great record but he takes the wrong side at the weirdest times, I have said that before and I will say it again if he manages to keep his seat.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    **Thread PSA**

    *Swordsmyth is a paid government troll sent to RPF to sow discord and division within the liberty movement. Those posts are not meant to be taken seriously. The content of those posts is irrelevant. For more information on RPF interlopers, please visit http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...48#post6759548"

    Amash is one of the best we've got! Principle sure is refreshing!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  12. #10
    **Thread PSA**

    *Swordsmyth is a paid government troll sent to RPF to sow discord and division within the liberty movement. Those posts are not meant to be taken seriously. The content of those posts is irrelevant. For more information on RPF interlopers, please visit

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...48#post6759548

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Amash is one of the best we've got! Principle sure is refreshing!
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CaptUSA again.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Although Amash claims to doggedly oppose Trump due to his constitutional bonafides, he was conspicuously silent during the ten occasions in which President Barack Hussein Obama declared emergency measures while Amash served in the U.S. House.
    Source?

  14. #12
    LOL

    One side is causing the emergency on purpose.
    Amash does have a great record but he takes the wrong side at the weirdest times, I have said that before and I will say it again if he manages to keep his seat.
    Just like Ron Paul, Amash must be one of those people who is wrong an awful lot. But your Authoritarian Idol always gets it right!
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Just like Ron Paul, Amash must be one of those people who is wrong an awful lot. But your Authoritarian Idol always gets it right!
    Neither one is wrong very often and Trump is wrong far more often, I have always said those things.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Neither one is wrong very often and Trump is wrong far more often, I have always said those things.
    The first article response you posted in this thread equated Justin who has a 94% Freedom Score, to Jeff Flake.

    Telling, indeed.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The first article response you posted in this thread equated Justin who has a 94% Freedom Score, to Jeff Flake.

    Telling, indeed.
    Flake once had a pretty good record and it made the comparison about being anti-Trump in order to receive praise from the liberal media which is appropriate.

    In addition, I am not responsible for every word in a an article I didn't write.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 03-04-2019 at 12:15 AM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Neither one is wrong very often and Trump is wrong far more often, I have always said those things.
    Yes, those rare exceptions are all too common, as you admit. But if your Authoritarian Idol is wrong more often than Ron Paul or anyone else advocating for Freedom, then that should therefore be reflected in your posts, rather than 30 plus posts a day trumpetting his policies and attempting to demonize various groups of people.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CaptUSA again.

    Covered.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  21. #18
    This is so sad watching liberty candidates like Amash destroy themselves and advocate against a policy that provides a path for future liberty candidates to get elected.

    The future of individual liberty in the US looks bleak since leaders in the libertarian movement are blind to the fact you cannot grow the philosophy with an open border.
    Last edited by kahless; 03-03-2019 at 10:33 PM.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Yes, those rare exceptions are all too common, as you admit. But if your Authoritarian Idol is wrong more often than Ron Paul or anyone else advocating for Freedom, then that should therefore be reflected in your posts, rather than 30 plus posts a day trumpetting his policies and attempting to demonize various groups of people.
    Trump is President, Ron and Amash are not, therefore there are many more stories about Trump than Ron or Amash.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Justin Amash Pushes to Block Trump’s Emergency Measures, But Stayed Quiet During Obama’s Ten Emergencies
    Feb 25, 2019
    By Shane Trejo
    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/justin...en-emergencies
    I can't recall the circumstances, but I find it very difficult to believe that Amash went along with interventions in Libya and Ukraine quietly, let alone specifically voted in favor of them.
    Obama declared national emergencies in many dubious instances such as to facilitate illicit foreign interventions in Libya and Ukraine... Amash was quiet about these declarations made by Obama when his opposition wouldn’t earn him mainstream media praise.
    This part sounds as if it they slipped Amash's and Trump's names into an old story about Ron Paul.
    Amash’s gadfly status and willingness to work against Republicans such as President Trump has earned him a great deal of praise from the liberal media...
    Who is "the establishment DeVos family"? I felt his connection to Ron Paul is what got him elected. Oh - and love the ancient insult about Ron Paul supporters being a "cult following"!
    After using his connections to the establishment DeVos family that rules the roost in West Michigan to get into the state legislature, he capitalized on the Ron Paul revolution to become a national legislator inheriting much of the former Texas Congressman’s cult following...
    Sounds as if the Cheneys already have someone picked out.
    Much of Amash’s following, in his home state of Michigan or elsewhere, is quickly waning as more Republicans are demanding a primary challenger against him in 2020.
    Who are they lining up to oppose him?
    Last edited by Valli6; 03-03-2019 at 10:58 PM.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CaptUSA again.
    Got it.
    "The Patriarch"

    willie with tan lines: enjoy the shots and the woman
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The foreigners will take 100% of your income and then your life.

  25. #22
    So Amash is in favor of open borders?

  26. #23
    If Trump were never elected the majority would still be hoodwinked and bamboozled.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    This is so sad watching liberty candidates like Amash destroy themselves and advocate against a policy that provides a path for future liberty candidates to get elected.

    The future of individual liberty in the US looks bleak since leaders in the libertarian movement are blind to the fact you cannot grow the philosophy with an open border.
    You guys are jumping the shark. Just because he is against how Trump is aquiring funds, doesn't make him "open borders."
    @Bryan can we get a site rule against lying about site-endorsed candidates?
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    You guys are jumping the shark. Just because he is against how Trump is aquiring funds, doesn't make him "open borders."
    @Bryan can we get a site rule against lying about site-endorsed candidates?
    If the money is not earmarked by congress, is it not up to the executive branch to decide how it is spent? This was the exact argument that Ron Paul used in favor of earmarks for years.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The first article response you posted in this thread equated Justin who has a 94% Freedom Score, to Jeff Flake.
    Telling, indeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Flake once had a pretty good record and it made the comparison about being anti-Trump in order to receive praise from the liberal media which is appropriate.

    Jeff Flake Freedom Index: 94% (111th Congress: 2009-2010);

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    If the money is not earmarked by congress, is it not up to the executive branch to decide how it is spent? This was the exact argument that Ron Paul used in favor of earmarks for years.
    This is not relevant to her lie that Amash supports "open borders." You can disagree with Amash's interpretation of the law, but that doesn't make him open borders. I will paraphrase Bastiat: "Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between how and what. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government in a certain way, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all."
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    This is not relevant to her lie that Amash supports "open borders." You can disagree with Amash's interpretation of the law, but that doesn't make him open borders. I will paraphrase Bastiat: "Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between how and what. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government in a certain way, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all."
    I didn't really say it was. Are you sure he isn't open borders? Many libertarians are. I can't watch the video, do you have him on record saying he is not for open borders? And what does "open borders" even mean? does it mean no country? Or a country with no actual defense of its border?

    My issue is with claiming Trumps actions are unconstitutional. I don't think Trump even needs to declare an "emergency" he can just build the wall with allocated, but unearmarked funds in the defense budget.
    Last edited by specsaregood; 03-04-2019 at 06:32 AM.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    So Amash is in favor of open borders?
    This is the logic of the immigration restrictionists. If someone does not support the restriction of immigration, and support it via whatever means they consider necessary for it, then that means they are for open borders, and if they are for open borders, then they are for no borders at all, and if they are for no borders at all, then they are against national sovereignty, and if they are against national sovereignty, then they are against having a country at all.

    Given that logic, they on the one hand draw conclusions like yours, and then on the other hand, when they see Ron Paul say that he's not for totally open borders, run off to draw wild conclusions about how he must support the kind of immigration restrictionism they do.

    The proliferation of this kind of vacuousness made up the bulk of the wave that Trump rode to the White House.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 03-04-2019 at 08:57 AM.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    This is the logic of the immigration restrictionists. If someone does not support the restriction of immigration, and support it via whatever means they consider necessary for it, then that means they are for open borders, and if they are for open borders, then they are for no borders at all, and if they are for no borders at all, then they are against national sovereignty, and if they are against national sovereignty, then they are against having a country at all.

    Given that logic, they on the one hand draw conclusions like yours, and then on the other hand, when they see Ron Paul say that he's not for totally open borders, run off to draw wild conclusions about how he must support the kind of immigration restrictionism they do.

    It proliferation of this kind of vacuousness made up the bulk of the wave that Trump rode to the White House.
    Can you give a citation where Amash specifically says he is not for "open borders" and defines what "open borders" means to him? TIA

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